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I never had children when I was married to the Alcoholic. We didn't want any, I didn't because I never wanted them to have an Alcoholic Father and he didn't because he didn't want any of them to grow up and be Alcoholics. Which his substance abuse became so bad after many years that he did Father twins from another woman and he became so angry with himself that he drank himself to death.
My question is would any of you make a different choice about having children with your Alcoholic spouse. I know many of you may think this is heartless but It has been proven thru studies that children of alcoholics are predisposed to this disorder. Many Mothers have suffered so much seeing their sons and daughters go to jail, substance abuse even widens to meth, heroin, alcohol is drug. I have just completed alcohol and drug studies and now interning as a counselor . I was the only one in my class of 15 students and the oldest of course. I was the only one that had not been a substance abuse user. These kids, half had been to jail, some women had lost their children, drinking is not enough for them, they did Heroin, Meth, pills. all predisposed by a drinking parent. They all had been thru rehab, and were clean and sober, but all had been thru hell and the ages, most under 25. Studying to become counselors now and struggling to stay sober because you cannot become a counselor if your not. We know now that drugs and alcohol bring on unplanned pregnancies, crime, homelessness for these teens.
I think the answer is being educated about alcohol, I know that AA and Alanon call it a disease, maybe, but it also genetic and affects the brain. I know its a little bit late for parents , I know you all love your children in any circumstance. Just wanted your feedback...and for all of you who are considering children with an Alcoholic, what do you think?
Bettina
-- Edited by Bettina2 on Saturday 27th of February 2016 03:38:24 PM
-- Edited by Bettina2 on Saturday 27th of February 2016 03:42:27 PM
I was so young and not thinking of the consequences, the responsibility of children. I think mature women who have their head on straight may make different choices. Sounds like you were "thinking" when you were young. Do you regret not having children? linsc
Definitely. I would never have had children if I'd known what I know now. We brought them up as two sick and insane people. Not a good stable environment. I don't feel guilt the way I did though because I was ignorant. I did the best with what I had. I now know better so no it's infected my children like a contagious disease. All I can do is keep working my program and set a good healthy example now. Good thought provoking question. Thank you.x
I have a daughter with my first husband. That was a different kind of trauma...the Father was not an alcoholic, but he was the child of one. He had other issues and was a criminal and took my daughter when she was 6 1/2 and we were not reunited for years. BUT is somewhat related to alcoholism. I still think its all about the impulsive choices we make, I was very young then.
Not till I came to Buddhism and Alanon that I started to make better choices, around 37 and now that I'm almost 70 and have been thru 3 marriages and the marriage to the Alcoholic being the longest, I have learned to accept the sorrow and the Joy, we cant have one without the other.
Nope. Giving a child an alcoholic parent is not a gift. It's not that I don't want or love my child but I've give anything to have given him a different, saner, sober, responsible dad.
When I took substance abuse, I was the only one that was an addict/alcoholic. Aside from being gay and therefore not having kids by accident or out of tradition, I have thought I didn't want to father children with my genes for depression, anxiety, and addiction. I thought, maybe adopt or foster one day - but having worked with those kids, most of the reason they are in foster care or up for adoption is due to their parents being addicts. In any case, we all do the best we can with what we know at any given time (typically). Live fully, love, learn...no serious regrets.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 27th of February 2016 06:31:17 PM
I.was.born into alcoholism. I do not regret.being born or the lessons I've learned and I would.never rethink my daughter who grows up now with an armory of al anon tools and uniqueness. So no, not for.a.moment. A pretty childhood.isn't a requirement for a happy or successful life. Not being taught any useful coping skills I'd say is a worse way to begin life than with imperfect people.
-- Edited by missmeliss on Saturday 27th of February 2016 07:25:27 PM
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
I grew up with an alcoholic father. I married into it and had children that so far do not have any apparent addictions. They are in their late 30's. I do know that the show is not over until it is over. With that being said, I would not do anything different. My kids are my world and I have just been lucky so far. However, I have not been lucky in my marriage but that "is what it is" at this point.
-- Edited by pjwa12726 on Saturday 27th of February 2016 07:06:36 PM
As I have come to learn, there are no guarantees in life. If I knew then what I know now, I would like to think I would not have populated the earth. However, the disease is what scares me more than the diseased. I am a walking miracle - I am one who got to AA and was able to stay sober one day at a time and have a blessed life. It could have easily gone way different based on my state of being when I arrived.
So, if we are to believe what we have been taught/told in Al-Anon, we are just as sick as the alcoholic. Neither party without recovery should be considered a better parent than the other. I know people who have never touched a drop of alcohol or mind-altering substances, yet are not equipped to raise children. So, I go back to my original point - there are no guarantees in life.
I met and married in recovery. I had 5 or 6 years and he had the other. We dated for 2-3 years. We both were serious in our recovery, dedicated to our programs and happy/serene. We did all that is suggested. We were in no hurry. We discussed kids, religion, parenting, in-laws, houses, jobs, retirement, etc. before we married. Again, we did all that we could think of wanting a healthy marriage that would outlast us.
I stayed sober; he did not. This disease is powerful enough that it could have easily been the reverse. Once he let his guard down for the first drink, the disease was in control again. He now feels and believes there is no point in chasing recovery again. I don't push the issue as it's not my business. But, this does not make him a bad parent, a bad person or anything other than sick with a disease. His active disease was able to suck me in and make me equally crazy - perhaps more so because I didn't rely on a substance or a program until I did.
So, perhaps my story is a little different, perhaps not. But, I can not sit here and ponder this question and imagine myself loving another as I love my husband or having children with any other person. I never wanted children at all until I met and fell in love with him. Our relationship has made me a better person, a better woman, a better mother a better daughter and a better friend. Has the disease made life hard? Yes - but life was hard before the disease too.
I played softball today with a group of friends that I know mostly on the softball fields. One of the players, a 42 YO male tried to OD on pills last week. He suffers from depression, his father passed away recently, his brother too, his girlfriend dumped him and his mother is dying. He's got it hard and these events clearly have triggered his depression into overload. My heart hurts for him just as it hurts for anyone suffering from a disease of the mind and spirit.
Spending some one on one time with him after everyone left, I could feel his pain. I could sense his discomfort and nobody else knows. He knows I won't share or judge and that I am safe. Driving home, I actually considered what it would be like to live with someone who suffers from depression. My final thought as I pulled into my garage - everybody's got something and I am grateful for my own.
It's easy to assume or believe that 'the grass is greener....' however I am not convinced it's true. My best friend in the world lost her husband at 39 to a heart attack. He was healthy, never smoked, eat well and was not a drinker. He passed leaving her with 5 kids at the age of 35 to raise alone. I guess my point - our journey is not our choice - it's predisposed by a power greater than ourselves.
Given a do-over with all the knowledge I've gained in my life, I would do many things differently. Then again maybe not - I've never been one to avoid anything based on knowledge or fear - I'm more of a 'live on the edge kind of gal'. It's a difficult question only because if I didn't have my kids with my husband, they wouldn't be who they are. They are a lovely mix of the both of us, warts and all, and that would change too.
Great thought-provoking question - I wonder how many alcoholics would want to have children with us? After all, we are martyrs, controlling, manipulating, etc. too....inquiring minds want to know!!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
My 5 children are from my previous marriage; 2 are out of the house but I have 3 boys at home and had I known/realized AH was an A before the wedding; I would not have married him. Not quite the question you asked but maybe this will strike a chord with someone who is not married yet and help them realize they don't want to bring that into their home with their impressionable children.
I have 4 children. "IF" I had know their dad was an alcoholic--- and "IF" I had know anything at all about the disease (I was raised in a non-alcoholic home and didn't know a thing)...... I would never have married him. I had a date with a young man in college who showed up at the door drunk and I refused to go with him and never dated him again.... solely because he was drunk that one time.
But the hubby didn't drink when we met. He gave me the first impression that he was an alcoholic about 10 years after we were married, but I didn't know what alcoholism was. I just knew he drank, and often too much, and I didn't like it. I had 2 children by then and went on to have 2 more.
My last daughter is alcoholic and will never drink again. She is proud to have figured it out and quit drinking after only having a couple of times consuming alcohol and being totally out of control and blacked out. She knows she can't drink. She knows this because of watching her father and going to AlATeen when younger. (of course, my being in AlAnon and teaching the tools of AlAnon are helpful too.) Of the other 3, they are in their 30's and 40's by now and show no signs, but, who knows?
Alcoholism is in every family and extended family. I grew up in a "normal" home but I did the family tree and I see alcoholism in there. My parents didn't drink because they saw something they didn't like about alcohol. I am fortunate for that.
I think a lot of alcoholics want to have children with AlAnons. They choose us too. We are the ones, who with all our controlling tendencies, hold the family together while they can go on their merry way. We are safe to have babies with because they know we will handle it for them. We are over responsible.
I think with the knowledge we have about alcoholism we are well suited to raise children. Yes, I would have my children again.
I identify with your post Maryjane. I was also raised in a non alcoholic home. And one time a similar thing happen to me. There was a football player at school who wanted to date me, he came to my home drunk with the whole wrestling team. I never went out with him because I thought he was a jerk.
My ex AH hid his drinking and drank once in awhile on weekends I thought. I was unprepared ....I wouldn't have married him either, but it was too late. I did learn some lessons along the way and it is because of him that I am counseling now.
Important thing to never have regrets...
Hugs, Bettina
I think it makes a difference if the alcoholic is active or not. In my situation, my spouse has not been active since the birth of our children but sadly we now have a child who has the disease. So the genetic part is unfortunate but so is the genetics of cancer, heart disease etc etc. Alcoholsim is rampant on my side of the gene pool to so who know where it came from . So in my situation no I| have absolutely no regrets. If things had turned out differently and he had become active again maybe I would have a different attitude I don't know. I do know that I and they were blessed with the best father and husband anyone could ask for so for that I am grateful every day.
I would still have my children with my exAH, maybe because so far they are thriving and doing great. Maybe because, I divorced him and moved away and really not having too many dealings with him. My kids go visit holidays and long weekends and it sounds like he doesn't drink for those stretches and it's not that often. The disease still runs through us all, but I wouldn't change anything as of now. My oldest is a senior and only 2 months from graduating from high school, she is graduating with highest honors with a 3.94 GPA and I am so proud of the person she is! She just turned 18 and will be headed off to a good college next year, her first pick and she has so far broken most of our dysfunctional family cycles. My youngest is smart and learning fast, but is only in second grade and only time will tell the ultimate impact the disease will have on my children, but as far as right now I feel like working on my al-anon recovery and getting my kids away from those family members that are the sickest like my family of origin and seeing their father minimally has made our life much better and healthier. This is a life long process and can only be taken one day at a time, therefore I do not dread the future, nor fall victim to the past, but my present is a gift I give myself. I have chosen to work hard and surround myself with only healthy adults who are accountable, respectful, moral, and upstanding, willing to work through their own stuff, I believe this has made a world of difference for us. Alanon has made me whole again and I am living my life so differently and feel as though I got a second chance and I am taking it!
-- Edited by Breakingfree on Monday 29th of February 2016 09:19:16 AM
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
I do have a fantasy where I get to choose. I choose all of the good healthy things for my son and he thrives without ever knowing adversity or struggle. But that's just not reality, and would probably lead to a confusing and painful adulthood once he was out of my protective care. He has an Alcoholic father, and an imperfect mother and who knows what else in his genes. There are 1,000,000 reasons he might be at a disadvantage, and 1,000,000 reasons he might be considered privileged. Alcoholism in our family is just one of those things, it is not THE defining aspect of our family. It is not my job to keep my son from experiencing hardship, or illness (even alcoholism) it is my job to show him how to cope, and show him all the beauty there is in life, even the things that are hard or ugly on the surface. I hope he doesn't face addiction and I know it is not up to me, all I can do is love and guide him as he lives his own life.
I am still married to my AH and feeling out what I want and need for my life and my future. With the tools and perspectives I have now, i am exploring my desire for more children. Will I stay married? Is it possible for me to have more biological children? Adopt? how will I know if/when I am ready? A crystal ball would be really useful And, of course I will figure it out along the way, and take some big risks because without the courage to take those risks my life wouldn't be my own.
Wow, this is a question I really had do some "work" on....
My A/H was my high school sweetheart, married young and I thought he would grow up and out of the party... we were married a year and things had gotten really bad and after a BIG night... and today I know I had a part he decided to quit... he was sober for a few years and we decided to bring a little one into the picture. I was over the moon, a happy family! Life was perfect - so I thought. My H started drinking again, 5 years after a stint of sobriety. We had our beautiful son, but the day he started drinking again I vowed to not have any more kids. I knew I would end up a single mom and knew I couldnt afford (time, sanity, financially) more kids. After some major health issues my H did find sobriety for himself, during the active time I earned to have another, I had to grieve the loss of not giving my son a sibling... but knowing today what I know. I would not do anything different. I am grateful for my son, I am grateful for my life lessons, my husband has been one of my biggest teachers, I come from a family of alcoholics/addicts..... they have helped shaped me to who I am today. Today I can say and mean every word of I am a grateful Al-anoner.
Thanks for letting me share and for letting me see all of your thoughts on this too.
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Kats
To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you - Lewis B. Smedes
I'm on the fence for many reason .. I have wonderful kids .. there are no guarantees as they grow up what challenges they will face. I don't think any kid sits down at 6 years old and has an adult ask them what they want to be when they grow up and they raise their hand smiling saying gee .. I want to be an addict/drunk.
I do believe my kids have a fighting chance at least in terms of having coping skills many adults do not have, they have an awareness about themselves and others. Something my youngest one said to me was .. you know mom I hope I never have an addiction problem at least I do know where to go if I make some bad choices. I know there is help and I know I can find it. There are NEVER any guarantees when it comes to kids .. you can do everything absolutely right and wind up with kid who is a murderer or worse. There is a lot of praying and hoping for the best.
They did grow up some in the chaos of a dysfunctional home and you know what .. I thank the Lord they have not had the same lessons I had at their ages. So I kind of think I am doing something right .. not all of it .. just some of it. They know what the dysfunction is and I own my part, there is a lot of dialog and accepting personal responsibility for my part, .. I wish I had gotten them out sooner .. I didn't .. they seem to be thriving now. Time will tell.
Days like today I wonder if it would be easier to just be able to take care of me and not have the worries and responsibilities of being a full-time adult. My son and I were sick last week and today my daughter is sick. There is nothing like getting a text at work saying oh by the way .. sick kid, I have to go home to at least check on her. There goes the 1/2 hour of OT I was trying to pick up. Not to mention my job is in jeopardy because I was out sick last week for 2 days. Some days I would just like the freedom of worrying about me. There is no pause for parenthood. That part of the deal is incredibly stressful.
I also look at the fact I have no relationship with either of my parents and honestly .. I'm soooo ok with that .. these people did me no favors as a kid or adult. I am completely numb to them in general. So how do I show my children how to have a relationship of this kind when I can't do it. Or maybe I just don't want to do it .. I haven't come to terms with that part of me yet. I don't think I would have been as adult like as I am now if not for my kids I probably would have really spiraled out of control, so in that way they ground me which is totally selfish on my part.
The one thing I wish I had done differently is I wish I had not married my XAH and just lived in sin and he was the baby daddy vs getting married that is the only thing I would have done differently. It would have been a whole lot less expensive in that regard .. no divorce and he signed the kids over as is without question. At the time it was more convenient for him to do so. Get my education is my only other regret and I push both the kids in that regard I do not want to see them struggle the way I have and some of it is just poor choices on my part. Sigh .. I keep trying though.
So no I don't regret having my kids I think these are people even if they were not my kids I would want to be friends with them if I was a kid and I hope that our bond continues to grow closer as they get older. I can't regret my XAH the only way I would want him out of my life in that regard is knowing no matter who I was with I would still have the same kids I do today. Again .. no guarantees .. it's a total crap shoot.
The one thing I have told both of them is having kids is a very personal choice and neither of them will hear me say or guilt them as to why don't I have grandkids .. lol .. my dad used to go on and on about me not being a real woman until I had kids .. LOL .. whatever. Then there was the family name and him going on and on about that .. he's so scared about his name not going on all 3 of his kids have his name including the girl .. lol. He was just obsessed and probably still is .. lol. Do I think MY adoptive parents should have been allowed to adopt .. absolutely not these people are whack-a-doo. Maybe my kids will feel that way about me at some point .. who knows .. lol .. I do know we don't get to pick our parents it just happens and what I know about my birth parents I would have had the same lessons or worse. So it comes down to no guarantees.
Just something to think about .. hugs S:)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I for sure wouldnt want it for my daughters. But I wouldn't want anything less than the best for them on the partnership front. For me.......yes and no. I regret having 2 children with a non alcoholic man with a damaged personality, because of the pain I can't protect them from. So I have felt very responsible for that. I ve had another 3 with two others both alcoholics one a fling the other a husband. The 3rd ended up being intelectually disabled with classic autism and is unlikely to ever speak, or leave home. Actually, very recently I questioned the purpose of his existence. I asked my hp. I also questioned the choices I had made relating to the first two. The answer I received or conceived was, hp has a plan and that plan is greater than the personalities involved. With my girls, yes their father is an alcoholic and a dominant man to be married to. However he's also a human being currently arrested enough to exert some positive influence in their lives. Though as I write that I have finally decided that in this case seperation does mean divorce. I wouldn't change having them based purely on alcoholic parentage. The world in general though to my looking is a horrid place to bring life into. Porn, terrorism, systematic evil, murders, consumerism, etc etc etc. But all of these things are both bigger than me and yet smaller. I have come to accept that i am a part of gods plan and so are each of the souls whose bodies I helped form and whose roots I helped nurture. Thanks for this thread.
I too came from an alcoholic home. My brother, sister and I are not alcoholics. None of us have been in trouble. I could not have children and I am okay with that. I do not think I would have been a good mother. I still carry a lot of "junk" from my childhood. My first husband starting drinking before he was 20. He was a very mean drunk. To have had a child with him would had been disastrous. I feel like I stopped the cycle in many ways.
There are sort of two questions in one in this. One is "Would I wish to have had different children?" That's a metaphysical and unknowable question, but I think few of us would say "No, I don't like the one I got." We love them and want the best for them. Because of wanting the best for him, do I wish he had a non-alcoholic father instead of an alcoholic father? Absolutely. I know there are no guarantees in life - except that having an alcoholic father does seem to guarantee some misery in the equation. There is enough random trouble coming down the pike without the optional add-in of an alcoholic parent. So I wish I had had my child with a non-alcoholic. Preferably an emotionally healthy non-alcoholic. If I had to do it over, and I had to choose between this way and another way, I'd take the other way in a flash. Better for my child, better for me.
I also went to college to study specifically the diseases of addictions and compulsions and compulsions and that was after learning all I came to learn about my self and my family and friends and associates. I came into Al-Anon first and discovered lots about myself and my family generations back. Only one of my interests was the genetic factors so that I could see the wider picture I lived in. Genetic predisposition was a subject that captured my interest and my imagination ...I could find answers to lots of my why questions and also the How's. The taproot of my existence is that of the disease and alcoholism wasn't the only disease I was born within...I am also tubercular. Today I believe that it is so very important to know where I/we come from so that we can prepare if so concerned. My whole family maternal and paternal originated from within the same taproot. I never heard the word alcoholic spoken until I entered the program though I did know what "drunk" was and meant. We never named any one "drunk" for fear of harsh punishment..."drunk" meant a sin and our entire family was Catholic (and so often under the influence...including priest and others). I got turned on to alcohol by my maternal grandmother at the age of nine and I can still remember the reaction mind, body, spirit and emotions. I thought God lived in that bottle because of all of the trauma I went thru in and with my family including two brothers and a sister.
Ages later the question "would I have made a different choice" is moot because I have made different choices including Al-Anon and AA and culture and more. I am not the same person I was back then...I am half of that person; I still carry the dis-ease which has imprinted itself deeply and indelibly upon my mind, body, spirit and emotions; thoughts and behaviors. It actively works at "bringing me home" to it and while for 37 years that has not happened and I have listened to the voice and the invitations I know what "compulsions of the mind and allergy of the body" mean which words are part of the definition of alcoholism I learned from my chair in Al-Anon face to face meetings and then the classrooms in Fresno City College of California.
I have learned much from so many and practiced over and over so that I won't make the same choices without prior warnings of value. That is one reason why I come here also to learn and participate. I thank God for you all. (((((hugs)))))
I'm glad this thread is still active after so long.
Tough question. Really tough one.
My kids' father comes from the 'perfect' upbringing. I come from the complete opposite. I was very young when I met him, in the 'party' years of our lives. I didn't realise he was an alcoholic because I was young and naive (and life was a party!), and I came from an alcoholic upbringing.
I was very young when I had our first baby. After 3 more babies he decided to get sober after I left him when #4 was still a tiny baby. I moved back home eventally, because he was sober... Yay... He stayed sober for 14 months, in that time I fell pregnant again (I come from a line of VERY fertile women. Pills and the like have a habit of not working). I was over the moon about having a baby with him being sober because I had HIM, not the bottle version of him.
That dream was crushed a few months in when he started drinking again. I got my tubes done when I gave birth. I couldn't bear to bring another baby into an alcoholic world. Honestly that decision crushed my soul. I was born to be a mother. But I wasn't strong enough to leave (that took over 20 years).
I don't regret any of my children, not for a second. It makes me sad that they have had a hard life in ways other kids have no idea of. But they have also captured many lessons other kids their ages would not have any idea of.
Two are grown adults now, one is very close to being an 'adult', and I have two youngins at home with me still. All three older kids did leave home because of their fathers alcoholism - it wasn't the full reason for one, but a factor none the less. I have since separated from AH.
None of my kids so far have any substance abuse issues that I know of. I know that can change in a heartbeat, but so far so good. I think the life experience they have had so far is a factor in their choices as adults. They know they are pre-exposed to alcoholism and addictive traits. I have always been very open with them when they have asked questions, and answered as honestly as required for whatever age they are at the time.
I can't answer if I would have not had my children if I knew back then what I know now. I guess by having my tubes done I made a conscience decision not to bring another life into what the other kids were growing up with.
I have to say no I don't believe it was my choice in my lifetime I reflect often and see how one step moves me to the next not my thinking I believe God's plan for me. I would never change my girls and I have to recognize that is not just me I see when I see them. Just my thoughts best not to look back too long and wonder
And, of course I will figure it out along the way, and take some big risks because without the courage to take those risks my life wouldn't be my own.
