The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
your friend has depression and anxiety. Clear as day to me. Clinical depression....undiagnosed...or diagnosed but doesn't keep up with the meds he should be taking to help him through it. And massive anxiety but doesn't keep up with same. Doesn't bother to find a good therapist to talk through all the things he needs to talk through. Yes, I'd be talking about my friend. He recently relapsed, had the good enough notion in himself to return to detox, and is out again...back in a sober living house. Last night he texted me, he's very lonely. Just those words.
I know he is. He's spoken of not feeling as comfortable in his meetings this last time around, because of some rumors between members....some about him....it bothers him. Appears the group at the majority of the meetings in his area are gossip queens. Male or female. So what does one do when they are wanting and trying to keep sober, when meetings are the gist of staying that way, yet, the meetings are the cause of anxiety? Good Lord, who wants to attend a meeting where you feel uncomfortable because some bobblehead is spreading rumors?
I suggest to him to go to the meetings. I suggest he call his sponsor. He has called his sponsor, but the man never calls him back. I told him to find another. Clearly, that one is useless. This friend, from what I can tell since knowing him, has never really ever had to do anything on his own. Went from Mommy's and Daddy's house to getting married and having wifey do everything there was to do. All he ever had to do was work, bring home the paycheck. Not saying that isn't important, but jeez, when you are 50 years old, shouldn't you have some notion of how to handle life when it sucks and doesn't all go perfect? Not this guy.
This post is sort of all over the place, I apologize. I'm just frustrated. He's got to make some sort of effort for himself. I suggested if he's lonely, he maybe goes to an animal shelter and volunteer his spare time there...he loves dogs....they always need help. That's a good idea, he says. My money's on him never stepping foot into a shelter, because HE would have to make the effort on his own. It's like, if someone isn't holding his hand to approach something, do something, then he doesn't do it, then he continues to be a whiney little boy about how he is lonely, or whatnot.
The man is clearly depressed. He needs therapy for his divorce, his lack of coping skills, his lack of contact with his children, his alcoholism. He has no idea what to do with himself, and just going to a meeting for AA once a night, or twice on weekends, isn't going to deal with a damn one of those things, in my opinion.
Christmas is approaching, he's going to be miserable. He's out this Christmas, but in no different a place than he was last Christmas emotionally. He was in rehab through last Christmas...this year, he's still not on his own, he won't see his kids, this will prove to make him very sad. But I feel like screaming at him, well if you had just done what you needed to do, your life would be not like this. Well, that wouldn't help, so I don't. But it's the truth. He's wasted an entire year of his life feeling sorry for himself, drinking again, seeking recovery again, drinking again...etc...all to end up in the same damn place. Forward moving doesn't seem to resonate with this man.
I spent a good year after my husband and I split, being depressed. I know it. Lived it. Never want to be there again. Lost so much weight my doctor was yelling at me I would die. Didn't get out of bed for 3 months....etc...all sorts of doing nothing good for myself times. I finally reached a point during that time, where I decided I couldn't live this way. I was so sick and tired of being sad. Drinking was not an issue for me. I didn't drink. It was just that I couldn't get over or through the fact that my marriage had ended....that my kids wouldn't have mom and dad together anymore...and it was awful! No doubt. I went from Mommy and Daddy's house to being married and never thought I could live on my own and "do it". But I did. Maybe that's why I harbor this get up and get moving attitude now? With him? I don't know. I know I wasted a good 5 years of my life being sad and depressed after my split up. My life changed so much and I never saw a "future" for myself. I know I drove my friends and my family crazy with my attitude. It took me forever. Maybe I just don't want to see him waste so much time, when I'm on the "other" side of it now, and know that there is really a "future" without all that I knew. I want him to "see" it sooner. I sought out therapy, and went for two years....eventually, I felt better...and made it. But I couldn't have done it without the help I got for myself.
This is my vent for the moment. Thanks for listening. I know there's nothing I can do for him. He has to get there on his own. My heart aches for those who are hurting....
Accepting the First Step (being powerless over people, places and things) helped me to understand that the best way that I could help another was to pray for them and treat them with courtesy and respect . He is in a sober living house and I pray that he finds the support he needs within those walls.
Sandollars - the best gift this program gave to me was the ability to get out of the way, and let my qualifiers find their own path. I remember the day clearly when I realized I was putting more thought, effort, energy and action to their future than they were. That was the same day I began to truly turn them over to the HP of my understanding, and stopped as best I could doing for them what they could do for themselves.
It's very hard to watch someone you see tons of potential in be 'nothing' and/or do 'nothing' that remotely supports what we see....however, no amount of efforts, words, coaching, suggesting, counseling or even action on my part made a difference in what path they took or are currently on.
I agree with Betty - turning them over to HP and then praying for them is my best strategy along with being patience and compassionate while not enabling. It's not always an easy road, but I feel necessary in my life or they will not figure out how to do for themselves that which they can.
(((Hugs))) - keep coming back!!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Sandollars, I am so impressed with the way you took charge of your own depression and pulled yourself up by your bootstraps. That is an amazing feat.
I have a close family member who suffers from depression, and so I had a chance to learn about that condition. It is very baffling when the sufferer just doesn't seem to want or believe there is help and hope. Alcoholism wasn't part of the problem in this case, so maybe it's simpler than your friend's.
I'll just share one thing we did that seemed to help. This person wasn't working or getting out of the house at all. We focused on one activity he enjoyed -- in his case, it was bowling. We made sure that once a week he went bowling -- my husband went to his home and took him or met him at the bowling alley each time. We got him set up with a bowling coach, and then into a league, so he had a reason to go there a couple of times a week, be around other people, and have some success and improvement in his bowling skills. My husband went to all his coaching sessions with him, and just stayed there during the session. As time went on, he got some medication and therapy, and slowly step by step, with a lot of support but not "pushing," his life is much better now.
I'm not saying bowling is the cure for depression ... it's just an example of a baby step that we could manage. If you want to help your friend, and can dedicate time to focus on one thing you can control but not be attached to the outcome ... maybe this is a "baby step" that could help him and also yourself to know that you've done whatever you could and can let go of the rest.
-- Edited by Freetime on Sunday 20th of December 2015 01:11:07 PM
Thank you....I appreciate the kind words....I wish I could help him make a baby step, but I'm honestly too far away from him at this point to do much, physically. When he lived closer, I could go out and visit, and take him out and about, and we'd do things. His rehab of choice is a good 3 hours away from me, and he's chosen to stay at a sober house near there, and if and when he moves out of there, he plans to stay in that area still, so....that leaves him living in an area where he has no family (and his family is pretty non-existent anyway), no friends, and it keeps him very isolated.
It's hard enough as kids to make friends, so as adults, it's not easy either. He's a very personable guy, but making new friends is still a hard thing to accomplish at 50. He has a few AA people that I know he's hung out with, but I think for him, because he's angered or disappointed them when he relapsed, they aren't much for building on that friendship. So, again, he's very much alone. That has to be quite difficult when you are trying to find things to keep yourself occupied so that you don't drink.
Much the reason I keep on him to find a therapist. Not that a therapist is his cure all, or going to be his bestest buddy he would hang out with at all ever, but a therapist would at the very least, help him understand his issues, and find and suggest ways of coping with this new life he has. But again, all I can do is suggest...I can't make him do it.
Tough to have faith that they will come thru when we get stuck doubting. I was telling a new sponsee this morning that one of the things I love about recovery is the "miracles" that happen many times when I just know that they won't. Its a lesson to me that God can do for us what we will not or cannot do for ourselves. We have to hand it over first. What's your sponsor say about it.? (((hugs)))
Ah, yes...hand it over. Well...I handed "it" over many years ago....prayed and prayed and prayed and asked God...the one my catholic upbringing taught me to pray to...waited on that miracle...and it got me no where. My mother still died a horrific, awful death. I was 23. I'd just had my second child. So, that being said...my "God" disappointed me, and I've yet to find faith in "Him" since. So, I'm not much on handing it over to anyone or anything. If a miracle is to happen, it's because of the skies and the moons and the stars and because it was meant to be....maybe that's my new "God". I don't know. I know the one I prayed to as a child is not the same one I pray to now. If there is a "higher power" she also, is not an answer or miracle worker, or anything like that. It's just a presence for me. I choose to let it go...and I choose to hand it over to the person facing it....whatever it may be. But that is me, and I don't judge anyone else for having their own higher power. Mine is just most different than anyone else. I feel my higher presence when I'm walking in the woods....or riding on a horse, or sitting at the beach...listening to the waves....anywhere where my happiness and peace finds me. It's mine....not anyone else's.
My friend, he will find his way....good or bad. I'm hoping of course...as we all do....that our loved ones choose the good over the bad. Sometimes they do....sometimes they don't. Wouldn't it be easier if we could just smack them upside the head and they'd just "get it"? Ah, if only it were that easy.
Thank you all, again...for allowing me to come here...to share this, for it does help me to figure out my own role in it all. Gathering my thoughts and trying to decide how much or how little I want to be involved in it. My natural instinct is to fix it for him, but the problems he has, are not fixable by anyone but himself. I guess I think that's our own higher power, if you will, finding that higher power...within, ourselves.
sandollars, When I entered alanon I was very angry with the "God" of my youth and decided that my HP would be the principles and tools of the Alanon program .
I found that the problem that I had was a misconception and that I was always praying for my will and I did not understand that God works in mysterious ways His wonder to perform and that HP's ways are not my ways.
Gradually I discovered that there is indeed a powerful force that I could contact and rely on when I let go of my will and prayed for knowledge of His will.
My son attained sobriety , built a successful happy life for 13 years and then he relapsed and passed from this disease, I was grateful that by then I had learned to pray for HP's will to be done and for the courage, serenity and wisdom to handle life on life's terms I was also grateful that I was with my son when he passed and was not bitter at the outcome.
Sandollars i feel like you are reaching out for yourself
Yet are very fearful to do so. Alanon is a great program
For anyone. Its about us getting better on the inside
Thru self love and acceptance with whatever HP you
Choose.
So Many people are afraid to look inside of themselves
And keep the focus there. Its hard yes and it takes awhile
To be willing to change and grow.
I welcome you, i hope you will try ftf meetings to start
Your own journey of healing. I too went to just therapy
I needed alanon to really change, both my therapists
recommended me Going.
I too was brougt up catholic, now i am not sure what
I am. I am spiritual not religious that much i know. I
Am embracing and loving God and myself Now thats
All i need to be sure of.
I admire your insights and learning. It is difficult to see someone we care about suffering. My husband has recently admitted to his depression and anxiety. It has taken a long long time but for some reason he chose to seek help and I am grateful for that. Over the years, and whilst dodging a fair amount of hurt, I told him 'its ok to ask for help'. I gave him contact details for a counsellor and left the choices with him. At times I felt sorry for myself, or put myself down because I couldn't 'make it better' for him but I did realised that if I let his hurt hurt me then I was just adding to his self loathing and the best gift I could give was my own happiness and well being. I take care of myself and celebrate my own life. I struggle not to be codependent sometimes- that pull is part of my disease but I do care after all!
I did the same thing holding my HIGH POWERS nose to the grind stone until I realized I wasn't a higher power and unable to do that. My sponsor asked me why I was so egotistical thinking my HP was off key and that I was more deserving of attention and miracles. That woke me up and put me into an inventory...I had to find the answer to the "why" questions I was always asking and seeking to be validated by others especially a God so lofty. We are as egotistical and self centered as the alcoholic...true that...where and when did I no know that? It was part of my problem...I was TOO WORTHY...of peace of mind and serenity and then learned I would never get it in the way and measure I pleaded for. Humility is being teachable and being teach able is keeping an open mind (always) being always listening and watching and ready to give rather than take, take, take. Yes I was a taken and in some ways and times still am though ready to correct that problem as quickly as it rears its head. When you know...change it. (((((hugs)))))
Well tonight it hit my home. He called the other day, said he was going to be going to his nephews for Christmas day, his whole family, including his kids. I was so happy for him. His nephew lives about 20 minutes away from me. We thought we should get together. Suggested since it was such a long drive, he was more than welcome to stay here, and do this xmassy thing with my neighbors and hanging out. It's just my kids and I. He says that would be great. Hes half in the bag when he gets here. First hour he's here he's fine, laughing with kids, yadda yadda. He takes a joke my kid makes seriously and all of a sudden his fists start flying. Punches. Bull***t. I asked him to leave. He stares at me like I've lost my mind and won't leave. My kids call cops. He walks away before they get here. They find and take him to hotel. I tell cops ill drive his truck there so it doesn't get towed. I find glasses on the ground out in front of my house and assumed they were his, so I put them in truck so they won't get broken. Cops take him to hotel. I drop his truck. Cops drive me home. Get in house and kid tells me he lost his $250.00 glasses in the altercation. They were my kid's glasses I friggen put in his truck. I go back to hotel to get them. He's gone. Text him. He tells me to f*** off. He did nothing wrong, my kid snapped. My kids weren't drinking. He was. Omg..I'm so done. My kids are upset. I'm upset. I missed the neighbor gathering. Merry Christmas eve. Now i have to buy new glasses..my kid cant see without them and doesn't have money for new ones, nor do i. Thanks for making it the worse Christmas we've ever experienced. My kids are literally sick to their stomachs right now. You brought that crap into my home one time. Told you not to. Do it anyway, hit my kid, your done. Well, I'm done. Go drink your beer, my friend. You hit too close to home.
It was awful. I'm still so upset. Christmas morning, and my child won't be able to see ****. No way to get new glasses until he can get an appointment with eye doctor, get new prescription, and then go get glasses...two week process at best. Never mind the money neither of us have to spend on another pair. I was just laid off. I fell asleep last night without wrapping a single gift for my kids. I was exhausted...emotionally just wrecked. So mad at him for bringing that bull***t into my life. Just woke up and wrapped the few presents I had for them...thankfully they sleep late, so no worries about early morning risers that would wake up to nothing under the tree. It's a sparse enough Christmas this year as it is. Last night blew everything I'd ever taught my kids about being kind, helpful and right in this world. I cannot even believe it happened, but it did. I still feel awful...for my kids...even or him. It wasn't planned...of course not. But if he hadn't been drunk, it wouldn't have happened at all...and that is just something he will never see as long as he continues to drink. I'm sick over my son's glasses. Just sick. I have not one extra penny to spare this next month until I'm called back to work. He blew it, big time. I can't be friends with someone like this. You don't get to hit my kids and continue to be my friend. Ever. And his drinking doesn't get to excuse it. Thanks for letting me vent...needed to. Have to. I'm going to try and make the most of today. My kids will never forget it though....and I'm so disgusted with him for making this be a memory in my kids lives. But I do not have to have this in my life. And never will again. Going to go make some coffee and muster up the most of my Christmas spirit as I can. My forgiveness barometer is zero though. My tolerance for it is zero. I will block his number from my phone now. Done. Merry Christmas.
sandollars - so sorry for the chaos and drama this disease brings. I am sending positive thoughts and prayers your way that today was better for you all, and that you were able to salvage the best parts of Christmas - being together.
(((Hugs)))
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
So what was the lesson from HP in all this? You were so worried about your friend..... you spent so much time on your friend thinking about his safety and his happiness.... maybe the lesson was to "let it go" and to take care of yourself. I'm so glad Mother Nature (my personal HP) gave you this lesson now and so sad that you had to get this lesson.
I believe we were given our thought processes from our HP. I believe we were made smart by our HP and are expected to use it. I hope you and your children had a great day together and your son's glasses will end up in the mail in a few days. (maybe you could text that you expect that to happen?). Have a good winter break and Christmas vacation with the kids. They are the best part of us.
My lesson is to stop helping people who don't want help. The lesson is that he's a fool. He wants to let alcohol rule his life, so it shall. My lesson learned. My glasses will not end up in the mail, because that would take care and thought on his part. He doesn't have the ability to care or think. He's an alcoholic, the only thing he cares and thinks about is his beer. Oh well for him. Not my problem. I don't have a lifetime invested in this man, nor would I ever have. It's easier for me I guess to say this, to walk away, to forget about it because of that very thing, unlike many of you. I feel for those who don't have the ability to just say, no more, and walk away from it. Though, honestly, after dealing with what I just did the other day....I would NEVER deal with it more than once. NO one hits me, hits my kids. Period. Why would anyone live that way? Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Been nice knowing ya, NOT. No respect. None, zip. Sorry you're a drunk? Nope, not even that. It has no business in my life. And it didn't from the beginning....problem was...I was trying to be a friend. Can't be a friend to someone like that. Again, lesson learned. Glad I had this place to come to for advice and to share my thoughts...it helped. I don't want to spend my time on unhappy and ungrateful, drama or bulls***. I need and seek peace and serenity in my life, not because of alcohol...but because that's what I seek. I enjoy peace. I enjoy happy. Going back to that. It's a much easier way of life :) Happy New Year all.
I so appreciated the responses like Maryjane's when I got them which taught me to tell myself "I'm sorry I made a mistake and then practice the steps to correct the mistake". I enabled the trauma which ran thru my life and I needed to stop it along with my sponsor the program and Higher Power. It sounded good for me to hear myself say "Sorry Jerry...I goofed". That way I didn't add a beating to my goof. (((((hugs)))))
Oh, I do appreciate everyone's responses...advice...it's why I come here...when I found the website a few months back...thought to myself, okay...here's people who know what this is about....to read about, learn more....wondering if I was doing the right things...all inside of me somewhere though, I think I knew I was in over my head with this friend.....not ever having had to live with this sort of thing in my life...and figuring out a way to still be a friend, but stay in the background. But now...there's nothing to be friends with. He is on his own. His mother tried calling me that night, after I had turned my phone off...she tried calling me on Christmas Day. I must have been at my sisters' house already, for I didn't see a missed call. (My sister lives in a complete dead phone zone) I listened to her message, but because I refused to allow his crap to affect my Christmas as well, I didn't call back. His drama, whether it be from his own self, or his mother wanting to know what happened....well, I just wasn't going to have their lives mess with mine on Christmas Day. I haven't called her back still, and likely won't. It doesn't matter anymore. I'm done...I'm tired of talking with his mother about it as well. It's truly time for this guy to grow up and seek his help, honor the help he's been given, honor himself. Or not. I'm sure his mommy would have somehow figured out how to make him get my glasses to me....if I ask....but I just don't care now. I'll take the hit. Rather do it myself than to have to deal with this man again. I'll never trust him. You don't hit someone's kids. I don't care how drunk you are. Doesn't excuse it, and never will, in my mind.
Hitting my kids, turned off something inside of me. I don't care anymore...won't worry about him. I'm worried about my kids, and how their Christmas was ruined by an essential stranger. One that I let into our home so that he wouldn't be alone on Christmas Eve. I cut him off now, he handed me the scissors, so to speak.
And I don't mean to come off mean, in the sense that my response to responses might be harsh. I can walk away from this and not look back, because I'm an adult, and I can. I wouldn't want anyone to live that way...and honestly...from my point of view....being that it hit home once.....once was enough. Why anyone would not cut off that sort of behavior is truthfully, beyond my thought process at this point. Prior to that...I was just a friend on the outside so to speak....it wasn't in my life....my friends, my kids...no one was a part of his drama...until Christmas Eve...and boom, in that one moment...it's gone....so for those of you who live with this daily.....can I just ask...why? Because as far as I'm concerned...I'm worth way more...and so are my children...so that sort of crap I will not subject myself, or my children to, again. Does this make sense?
Sand dollar Living with the disease of alcoholism is difficult to explain. The insanity starts slowly and we each try to manage it as best we can-- after all we are married to the person and our vows do mean something . The words" for Better or worse, in sickness or health" kept going through my mind. By the time the disease reached the level that you experienced , most of us have tried everything, and if we have found alanon, have the ability to detach. draw boundaries(just as you have done) and move on.
Without alanon we develop negative coping tools, become filled with anger and fear and usually are unable to take positive actions for ourselves. The Disease is able to affect everyone in the family and is an equal opportunity destroyer. Alanon offers a better way.
