Welcome to MIP YoungLady.....so glad you found us and glad you shared!!

I too can understand where you are and why you are there. If your community doesn't have Nar-Anon, Al-Anon would also be good for you. I am assuming in treatment they've suggested he refrain from any/all mind-altering substances....which will include Alcohol.

Realizing that what you projected your future to be will probably not be, that doesn't mean it will be bad. Yes, relapse is a part of addiction and a part of recovery, but there are no guarantees in life. Recovery is about living life one day at a time, not holding on to the past and not projecting into the future. We work the best we can to stay in the moment and trust that we are OK in this present time with no guarantees for the future.

So - while this has probably been a shock to your system, it doesn't mean life is over and it doesn't mean your future is destined to be horrible. It just means it will be different than you planned, but - how often does life go as we planned?

My best advice to to focus on you - what you need in your life, what makes you have peace in your heart and keep the focus on you. I fully believe that while he's in a recovery home, you can work on you and your recovery and see where it goes!!

You are not alone - stop by and share any time!! Glad you're here!

Welcome to MIP YL, glad you found this forum and equally glad that you are going to Al-Anon and Naranon group meetings.
You will learn, in Al-Anon not to focus on your qualifier and also not to focus on the past and the future, just to stay in the
present. If you accomplish the present and take care of you, the future will evolve as it should, to worry about it now is
tiresome and fruitless. Please do come back and let us know how you are doing.

Thank you so much for your insight, Debb and Mattie. I'm grateful for your perspectives.

One thing I have quickly learned in this experience is that almost everyone I talk to has a family member or loved one touched by addiction. And the community of people affected by addiction is one of the kindest and most supportive ones I have ever encountered.

I am focusing on self-care right now and working with a counselor and spiritual director to cope with some of what I'm going through. Once finals are over I plan to go to meetings. I really want to discern the right decision for the situation.

This is a religious question, and I hope I'm not offending anyone by including it here. One thing I'm struggling with is the presence of God in the lives of addicts. It feels like recovering addicts are up against so much and I have a hard time seeing how God helps them. I don't understand how to pray for my fiance anymore. I've been praying daily, but I feel confused as to whether or not God can heal people from addiction. Should I just pray for his recovery? The idea 'Once an addict, always an addict' somehow conflicts with the idea that God can heal people from this. I see so many broken hearts caused by addiction, and I know it must break God's heart more than anyone's, but then I don't understand how he is working in their lives or helping them..

On an unrelated note, has anyone experienced anxiety about their addict living in a sober house? I was researching and it seems people try to bend the rules and smuggle in contraband all the time and I'm worried he'll be exposed to it there..

Thank you again for the support and advice.

YoungLady - I too, like Betty leave my will completely out of the equation when I interact with God through prayer or meditation. I pray for God's will for all in recovery and all those not yet so...

The reality for alcoholic/addicts - it's everywhere. The temptations are all around, work, liquor store, jail, prison, and yes - even in sober living houses. There are people who actually camp outside meetings trying to sell drugs to addicts. Just like our program, the alcoholic/addict is taught to live in the day/moment, and to use their tools to avoid temptation. If he wants to use, he knows how to. If he wants to stay sober, he knows how to. All of this is outside of your control, so just keep the focus on you and trust God to take care of the rest.

(((Hugs))) - great questions - we seek spiritual recovery vs. religious solutions. If we focus on doing the next right thing, it makes no difference what you call your god/creator, just that you have faith in a power greater than yourself...

Thank you all. I am truly grateful.

I think this is hitting me hard especially because I have faith and am spiritual. Now that the issue of addiction has been brought to my attention in such a personal way, I find it so discouraging. I hear so many stories of broken families and lives and fear that will happen to this man I love so much, have spend so many years with and have prayed thousands of prayers for.
I also look at the treatment options for addiction and they seem so limited for such a modern world.
It's hard for me to see where God is for these addicts and how he is helping them. I don't understand how to reconcile that God is always working things for our good but allows addicts to self-destruct. The scientific model of addiction tells us their brains are irreparably damaged after addiction but how do I reconcile that with my faith that God can heal anyone?
I am praying for God's will to be done and will continue to do so but I find all of this so discouraging and it's just hard for me to see how God is helping addicts. How can they ever recover if their brains are forever "spoiled goods?" which is what it seems like addiction literature says.

I'm also not sure if I can marry my fiance whom I love so much, because I don't know if I can have children with someone who could relapse at any time. I've always wanted to build a healthy family, especially since my own is dysfunctional. I feel it would be unfair to knowingly have a family with someone who could hurt so many people with a slip-up.
Is this reactionary? Am I being dramatic? Is it irresponsible to start a family with a recovered addict?

I'm so sorry to have all these questions but I'm truly grateful for the support and advice. I have many concerned family members and friends offering suggestions but they have no knowledge of addiction and are often unhelpful without meaning to be.
Thank you all.

-- Edited by Younglady on Thursday 3rd of December 2015 05:01:10 PM

YoungLady - I believe that you would be 'calmer' if you worked the program. The best premise of the program and one of the first 'gifts' if one day at a time. We live one day at a time. We hae no idea what tomorrow brings, and God's will may be different than what you think it should be. So, focus on today and the gifts and joy of this day and stay present.

Projecting into the future, good or bad, is not recommended. It sets up either fear of the worst case scenario or a resentment in waiting as the future is different than planned/desired.

You will not get all the answers, ever. This applies with or without an alcoholic/addictive person/partner. There are no guarantees in life, so stressing now about potential future events is pointless and a waste of your energy. Use that energy to work on you and find peace/joy now.

Keep coming back!!

Younglady wrote:

---

It's hard for me to see where God is for these addicts and how he is helping them. I don't understand how to reconcile that God is always working things for our good but allows addicts to self-destruct. The scientific model of addiction tells us their brains are irreparably damaged after addiction but how do I reconcile that with my faith that God can heal anyone?
I am praying for God's will to be done and will continue to do so but I find all of this so discouraging and it's just hard for me to see how God is helping addicts. How can they ever recover if their brains are forever "spoiled goods?" which is what it seems like addiction literature says.

---

Hi Younglady,

These are all excellent and powerful questions.  We, along with AA, believe that there is a Higher Power (HP) that can guide us if we let him.  Addicts have a very difficult time in that they have something like an allergy and a compulsion to the substance to which they are addicted.  A compulsion that is stronger than any any of us non-addicts will ever know or completely understand.  It is a compulsion that becomes greater than the want of our HP.

I believe the biggest reason so many of us believe in an HP is that we see things that we can only understand by a Higher Power moving things.  At the very lowest point in someone's life, they finally give up and give their will over to their HP; until then, they are the ruler of their lives, and HP can't help them.  This is very similar to the Christian concept of idolatry.  It happened with my wife.  She had a DUI, went on probation, then got a DUI again while on probation.  Faced with a felony charge, in jail with no chance for bail, she finally gave up and said she would let God handle things.  She got the chance to go to rehab for a second time, and surrendered her will to the loving hands that guided her there by the will of HP.  And she went into full blown recovery.  She lasted two years before she relapsed, even after two years the compulsion is still there, that is how strong the compulsion remains even when in recovery.  How do we explain getting out of that compulsion and living with it and not succumbing to it every day without a Higher Power to lean on?

We also have our bottoms in Al Anon.  it may not be as dramatic or life-threatening as an alcoholic's bottom, but we do have them.  They are the place where we realize that we have been trying to help our alcoholic, but have been doing it through unacceptable measures.  Before I entered the rooms of Al Anon, I used to pester my wife about her drinking, yell at her when she was drunk because I was so mad at her, take it personally that she was drinking, and was a pretty miserable person to live with.  After awhile, you would think that anybody would drink if they had to live under the same roof as me!!

Once I started going to meetings, I learned how to give my wife back the dignity that she deserved, and also started to learn a lot of thing about myself.  Crucial was the very first step in Al Anon, which is really the same step as AAs, since this disease affects the whole family:  Admitted that i was powerless over alcohol, and my life had become unmanageable.  From working, really working that one first step comes immense understanding and compassion of the alcoholic and of ourselves.

I also found that people in AA, if they were really working the program rather than just showing up, had a much better understanding of what HP is, and are many times much closer to HP than other people.  That is what traveling a hard road then recovering from it can do to one.

I encourage you to go to a few Al Anon meetings and see for yourself how this program works.  We call it Higher Power so that it becomes inclusive to and we don't have to sit around discussing our definitions of HP all day, we can instead  get to the root of what is going on in our lives, and through HP come to grips with living life on life's terms.

Going to an open AA meeting can also help you to understand alcoholics.

And keep coming back here!

Kenny

 

Hi Alice,

Going to meetings and checking in with sponsor are two things that he likely told his rehab that he would be doing. You are asking excellent questions - if you are seeing him like this after rehab, which is when he would have the most momentum to follow up, how could you trust him for other things? Only you know the answer to that.

Once you are able to get to meetings, you should be able to start to get the answer to this. In the meantime, the more you can detach and the less you can think about distractions, the better for your grades and therefore prospects for the future.

Your life doesn't have to be as affected as his, you can find peace. Keep coming back here, and get to those meetings once the semester is over!

Kenny

Younglady  Early recovery is extremely difficult  .  The alcoholic must work very hard to change"everything" and it is a difficult process.

 I am glad you plan on attending alanon because it is here you will be given the support,understanding and empathy that you need.  The new constructive tools that I developed helped me to face the recovery informed and confident

Keep coming back. 

YL, I hope all your exams went well. I hope, also, that you will be enjoying your F2F meetings in AlAnon. You have a lot to think about. You say that you come from a disfunctional home. That is something to also think about. When you are attracted to disfunctional people you have to figure out why. I find that AlAnon are wonderful people. We enjoy helping everyone. We REALLY enjoy it. We are good at it too. And we take it too far. That is our disfunction. I think you are seeing red flags in his behavior that you absolutely have to look at and figure out if you want to live with it. Go slow. Take your time. And take good care of yourself.

YL - early sobriety is very hard - for the alcoholic/addict as well as those who support them. They are learning (and resisting) what they have to do to stay sober and it's hard, different, structured and painful at times. I like the 'addict toddler' stage mentioned - that's exactly what it seems/sounds like.

In my experience, alcoholics/addicts will say what they need to say to get their way. This doesn't stop when the substance is removed. Changed living/life habits comes about through recovery efforts. Removing the substance leaves behind the 'isms' which can get better with recovery efforts.

I have shut off my phone, blocked my qualifiers, unplugged so as to have peace/serenity when they are in the 'my way' mode. The program has taught me to take care of me, and protect my peace/serenity/self-worth no matter what is going on. I am sorry you had an unpleasant holiday and will add all of you to my prayers!

So happy to hear about your meeting experience. Also happy to hear that you intend to continue. I had to shift things around in my life to make it a priority which was hard to do as I wasn't used to prioritizing my needs above others. It has proven to be one of the best choices I made when I found the program.

Keep coming back - you are worth it!!

Thank you so much for the kind wishes and prayers. I am truly astounded by how welcoming and supportive the Alanon and Narcanon community is. I had no idea that people would be so understanding or kind, but I think that is one of the gifts of the program.

I'm looking forward to attending the meetings I've found. I really see people who are able to "detach" and seem to be getting results from it. The one difference is the majority of the people (more than 95%) are parents of addicts and I seem to be the only person engaged to an addict. They have almost unanimously told me to "run" because they have to be involved with their addict from the obligation as parents but I'm not married yet and don't have to "ride this rollercoaster" if I don't want to. I'm a little perplexed by this attitude which seems very pervasive at the two different groups I've attended. It makes me feel like recovery is impossible or improbable. I guess I'm a little taken aback that these people who are attending the Alanon meetings are so emphatic that I should "run." I'm open to ending the relationship if that is what needs to happen for both our sake's but that was a little disappointing and sad to hear.

He is doing a tiny bit better? I don't really want to say he's "improved" because he barely is but I guess he is being a little less childish and although he constantly complains about sober living and makes veiled threats to leave, the fact is that he is continuing to live there, test clean on his drug screens and attend meetings. He is not attending daily meetings (just 3-4/week) as they recommended, but I suppose he could be choosing not to attend which he has threatened but not actually carried out. He has been meeting with a pastor who is a recovered IVDU with over fifteen years sobriety which he has said has been more helpful than the meetings or his sponsor. I'm actually happy to say he is now planning and attending these weekly meetings on his own and they seem to play a counseling/mentoring role in his recovery. I think eventually they will address his spiritual "higher power" needs, which he has said he thinks will help him in his recovery. I'm just glad he has found even just ONE recovery tool/person that he likes, appreciates and looks forward to.

What I'm not sure of is what on earth to do. We have a wedding date next year but I have completely stopped planning for it. I have until March to cancel so I have some time but I'm fairly positive if we get married, it won't be next year.
I just don't know how to discern or discover whether I should marry him at all. I have countless family members who, out of ignorance on the subject or protectiveness towards me, want me to leave him.
Now I have Alanon group members who say I should run because I'm not committed/obligated to ride the rollercoaster.
I don't know what to do. I love this man with my whole heart, but sometimes it sounds like even people well-versed in recovery seem to acknowledge recovery is limited at best or worse, unlikely for most. How can people familiar with the program have such low expectations for healing and recovery for addicts?
Doesn't it say something if people who are long-time members of Alanon have such low expectations for the recovery of the people in AA/NA?

I'm sorry to vent or if I sound frustrated. I don't know what to think right now. There are so many different opinions coming at me, it's a little overwhelming. Thank you for your opinions and for caring. It really makes a difference in my life and I hope you know how much. <3

The only person who can decide about your future is you. I suspect these are well-intended statements and I will admit that my first reaction when I see folks talk about their alcoholic BF or GF or fiance is the same - Run!!! However, I refrain from saying it as the program suggests we don't give advice.

Betty's correct - this is a chronic disease and it's never cured, only arrested. Many of the 'isms' exist long after the substance is removed and if your partner was using when you met them and has been in disease for an extended time, you most likely don't even know them as they truly are - and they probably don't know themselves well either.

BLUF - Bottom Line Up Front - there are no guarantees in life - no matter the choice of partner, career, path. I was very aware of this disease and truly thought I was doing everything 'right'. I am a double winner, and met my husband in recovery. We both had more than 5 years of sober time. We were both committed to recovery. He relapsed and I did not. We've survived but that's because I have no expectations of/from him. We have 2 children that I raised alone while he was in the same house. They resent both of us as they don't understand why he was disinterested in them and why I was always so tense, serious, angry and fearful.

However, if I had the option to go back and do it over, would I do differently? I don't know - that's not an option. Would of, Could of, Should of are dangerous paths of thinking for me. Do I wish my life were easier? Do I wish my children felt loved by both? Do I wish my AH had stayed committed to recovery and grown with me? Yes....Yes....Yes.... - however, that's not the way it's happened.

So - work on you, grow within the program and see what you think/feel as times goes on. The answers will come - no doubt. There have been many times in my life where I had doubts and still 'did it'. The program has taught me to listen better to those doubts and the small voices within that are contrary to the actions I am considering. You'll get there if you work on your recovery, one day at a time, with an open mind.

(((Hugs))) - keep coming back!

Hi YoungLady, my AH was addicted to Percocets for several years which started with a foot injury in 2004. However, he was an alcoholic when I met him (drank since age 16) but I never thought it would get "that bad." We have two children who are now 13 and 16. I raised them mostly alone as the Percs and alcohol combined turned AH into a zombie. He is 52 and has attempted recovery three times so far with this last time really working an AA program with a sponsor after attending at two week inpatient program as well as a 4 week outpatient. He has been drug and drink free for over 6 months--the longest he has ever gone. He is definitely a changed man. How long this will last I don't know. I know people who have relapsed after being sober for 20 years. I also know some where their addiction became fatal. That was discouraging. But we both never want to go back to the way it was before. I really don't think I can. So many people told me to leave and I wanted to for awhile but we stuck it out. I'm glad I did because I got to see how wonderful a person he could be without drugs and alcohol.

The decision to stay is yours and yours alone. As Betty said I would give it at least 6 months, you can always get married down the road. Just remember that early recovery is extremely difficult for the addict and those closest to him/her. There are no guarantees even with a non-addicted spouse that things won't get rough. My therapist once told me that you can say well I can't marry you because you may die or you may cheat on me, whatever. Same with having kids....I can't love you because you will grow up and leave me. Life is all about taking chances. Sometimes we do get heartbroken along the way.

Welcome to MIP Ms Kay - so glad you found us and so glad you are here. Thank you for your honest, heart-felt first post!

So glad you are here - keep coming back!!

Thank you so much for your post, especially Ms Kay.. I am grateful and truly touched by the kind words and experiences you have shared.
It is clear to see how much you love your AH. I really admire your attitude and strength through everything.

I am truly learning that any control we attempt to exert over life is a false construct. We really don't have one single thing guaranteed. Illness comes in many forms, and addiction is an illness. The more meetings I attend, the clearer this is for me.
I think what's hardest is loving a person so completely for their very self, and watching them suffer under the weight of their addiction and often lack of self-worth. You can't make anyone love himself and it kills me to think that underneath everything, the man I promised my future to, does not feel he is worthwhile or of any value.
Even on this site the more I read from the people who post, the more I realize that if we could "love" addiction away, this forum wouldn't exist!

So many people in my life have had this protective, knee-jerk reaction of, "Oh, he's an addict? Leave him, he'll never get better." I think that's a really sad commentary on the state of affairs that we have no compassion or understanding about the nature of this disease. I read that 1 in 4 Americans will have a substance abuse disorder in their lifetime, and so many people automatically write them off as responsible or lazy or that they "brought it on themselves." After everything I've read and heard, I truly think that any person at any time with any substance could be at risk for developing an addiction. We live in a broken, stressful world with many hurt people. Sometimes I don't understand how people can be so callous on the subject of addiction. Why aren't people with chronic diseases, such as COPD or diabetes, treated so disdainfully when their disease are also modifiable and preventable?

This is kind of pointless rant. The meetings have been great. My heart breaks to hear every wife, every child talk about the pain and cost addiction has had on them. Sometimes I wonder how there could be so few advances in the treatment of addiction after such a long time. Praying has helped me a lot and I plan to dedicate a lot of time to praying and thinking about what the future would look like. I love my fiance very much and do not want to abandon him to a disease that is culturally "taboo" but I also don't want to needlessly/knowingly expose any future children to the pain of having an addict parent. I also read parenting with an addict is being aware that you could be a single parent, which is something I'm considering as well.

I'm also trying to find blogs to read that focus on marriage and family life with a recovered addict. (All suggestions welcome!)

On a positive note, I have seen some slight improvements in my fiance. I do think the stress (implied drinking) of the holidays impacted him, but he made it through sober for the first time in years even if he complained a lot. His attitude seems to be improving and he is being very honest with me about what he is going through. Sometimes it's more of the little things that are tricky (driving him everywhere out of habit, texting him to remind him we have plans). It's almost harder to break those habits that I wasn't even aware of.

I am praying for my fiance, wisdom for the future and for all of you and your addicts. Thank you for all the insight and kindness. From the bottom of my heart, I appreciate you.

Thank you so much.

I'm very frustrated with the situation.

The fiance hates his sober house which I understand. It's a rundown house, he sleeps in a mattress on a floor, shares his room with two other men, it's not as structured/supportive as rehab, there is little sense of community... I do understand his problems.
But HE chose it. His rehab put him in charge of finding his aftercare which was something he had zero experience in and almost no guidance during the process. That being said he is an adult in his late twenties and he picked this place. He continues to complain that living there increases his chances of relapse and he won't do it anymore. (When he's very dramatic he says he will relapse to get kicked out of the program.)

He ultimately wants to move back in with me. After talking to the minister he's working with and his family, I said I would agree to it as long as certain rules or conditions were met. If he were to live with me he would have to get see a LADC (which he was supposed to have but his rehab found him one who doesn't accept his insurance), continue his work with the minister, attend at least 3 AA/NA meetings per week (the goal for him not at the sober house) and agree to occasional drug testing. I also said he could move back in but only if he actually went to work (he is skipping out on about half of his work week now because he is depressed about the sober house) and not watch tv/movies all day (The way he is now.) Basically I said he could move back in if he had a plan he agreed to follow and if moving helped him function better.

He completely flipped out and said I was being controlling, my expectations were "outrageous" and that he was "stunned." I am "condescending" and a "Nazi" for expecting him to follow these rules. But the more I research, the more I think these rules are actually very reasonable, even the drug testing.

Enter his mother (Enabler) who is agreeing to let him live with her and his step-father now without having a plan in place. I like his mother but she always tries to fix everything for him and I feel now that she is letting him get his way because he is stomping his feet. I think it's manipulative for him to say if he stays at sober living, he will relapse to get out but she feels it will help him to stay sober.

When I ask him what plan he is setting up to follow, he ignores my questions and continues to insist that I don't really love him and obviously want to keep him away from me and that I am hurting his recovery. He isn't compromising or attempting to meet me in the middle at all.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable. His mom just can't stand to see him uncomfortable. I wasn't against him leaving the sober house, I was against him doing it without a mutually agreed-upon plan. She has circumvented the whole situation and he is now going to live there without a plan set up in advance, without seeing an LADC, and with no drug testing (at least they have that at the sober house.)

He is continuing to work at the place where he bought his DOC but apparently his mom doesn't see that as a problem.

I'm very frustrated and feel exhausted by the whole situation. I have tried to accommodate him as much as possible but he is so selfish, which I'm sure is part of early recovery.
On top of this, I am about to enter the final semester of a very rigorous medical program. I need to keep life and living space as stress/drama-free as possible. He isn't considering that remotely and I feel vilified.
I apologize for the long post. Any advice or comments are more than welcome!

I applaud you young lady, you have backbone,
Enabling mommas are just that.

Just take care of you and do not worry about
Making any long range decisions about him. He
Is a big boy that needs to act like one and face
Himself, his recovery and his demons.

Keep your alanon meetings close to you for the
Support you need. He has AA or NA if he is so
inclined, to get the real support he needs to get
emotionally And spiritually sober too.

(((((( younglady))))))

I'm so sorry you're faced with this hard situation.

It's important to remember the Three C's: You didn't Cause it, you can't Cure it, you can't Control it.  Those are true of your A's mother too.  Even if she provides him with a "soft landing," she can't cause him to relapse - only he can make that decision.  And even if she set up dozens of rules, she couldn't Control him if he decided to relapse.  People relapse in recovery all the time - they even manage to get alcohol into the recovery house.  So it's not possible for you to save him from drinking, or for his mother to cause him to drink.  That is very freeing to know.  He has the tools to figure out a plan where he will be tempted the least.  The fact that he doesn't understand why you wouldn't want him to move back in with you with no protections for you suggests that he hasn't come very far in recovery yet.  That's not unusual.  Often the first 1-2 years are rough, as the A learns to function in a world without the prop of alcohol.

I also wanted to mention something that came up earlier in the thread, about having compassion for alcoholics.  I think we can be realistic about expectations and yet maintain compassion.  The statistics are that of those who start a formal program of recovery, only 15-25% will achieve longterm sobrierty. Now, because there are so many alcoholics, that is thousands if not millions of people.  But I mention this because I wish someone had told me this early on.  I thought there'd be some rehab and a switch would be flipped and things would be okay from then on.  I didn't realize how complex the situation was and how powerful alcoholism is.  The fact that it's so powerful is great cause for compassion.  Who would choose to be gripped by such a compulsion?  But also we can realize that we have to protect ourselves from the effects of that compulsion, because the people in the grip of it won't.  So we have to be realistic about what we're facing.  It isn't easy.  Glad you have found Al-Anon.  Because the good news is that there's great hope.

Take good care of yourself!