The material presented
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information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I know my behaviour is very controlling and less than desirable in dealing with and responding (reacting really) to alcoholism. I absolutely own that. But now I am very, very confused as my partner who hurt me physically the other day is saying that its because he is at his wits end and not coping with my behaviour. He has shown me websites about violence against men and now when I read the stories on the website I can relate - i can see that I am doing that behaviour? I am so confused - what if he is trying to twist this and blame me for his violence? What if it is true that it is me? What if its both of us?
Brightyellow Women are equally capable of being domestic abusers as men. I do believe that many of us have reacted in a destructive manner while attempting to cope with the insanity of this disease.
No matter what- he cannot point at you and blame you for his actions He is responsible for his actions just as you are responsible for yours.
Alanon tools helped me to detach, not engage , not react but respond by placing principles above personalities .
Bright yellow, this idea of equal abusers is common among dominating partners. Infact I know of not one violent person who hasn't said " it was mutual. But do you really think your partner has ever been scared of you because of your apparent abuse? And since when was hitting you an acceptable means of coping with your behaviour? I dont hear ownership of his behaviour by him showing you websites that blame you for his abuse. Have you spoken to a dv counsellor? It could help the confusion you're feeling.
That's my thoughts a lot of the time a4l - although I must say he is not saying his part was acceptable - but he is asking me to look at my stuff? But I am finding this very, very confusing. I do want to see a counsellor but I think they don't really understand alcoholism and are very black and white about DV - although this will help - I am scared of taking on their viewpoint/opinion and still not knowing what is 'right'. God help me I tell you - no clarity at the moment!
I hear you yellow. It's enmeshed. The alcoholism isn't going to go away and it has such a sick way of being even when sober. I don't know enough about your situation to comment deeply. Physical safety has to be a priority dv wise; and power struggles are a thing too. A huge thing actually. I know from experience as a person affected by alcoholism of others, that I have a tendency to always blame me, and whenever things go pear shaped, I look always to how its my fault. I can not say the same thing of those I've chosen as partners.
BY, physical safety is the biggest issue and must be maintained for the both of you. Working the program for yourself and "Minding Your Own Business", including detachment should be a goal. {HUGS}
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"Forgiveness doesn't excuse bad behavior, but it
does prevent bad behavior from destroying your heart". ~ unknown
Domestic violence and emotional abuse are behaviors used by one person in a relationship to control the other. Partners may be married or not married; heterosexual, gay, or lesbian; living together, separated or dating.
Examples of abuse include:
name-calling or putdowns keeping a partner from contacting their family or friends withholding money stopping a partner from getting or keeping a job actual or threatened physical harm sexual assault stalking intimidation Violence can be criminal and includes physical assault (hitting, pushing, shoving, etc.), sexual abuse (unwanted or forced sexual activity), and stalking. Although emotional, psychological and financial abuse are not criminal behaviors, they are forms of abuse and can lead to criminal violence.
The violence takes many forms and can happen all the time or once in a while. An important step to help yourself or someone you know in preventing or stopping violence is recognizing the warning signs listed on the "Violence Wheel."
ANYONE CAN BE A VICTIM! Victims can be of any age, sex, race, culture, religion, education, employment or marital status. Although both men and women can be abused, most victims are women. Children in homes where there is domestic violence are more likely to be abused and/or neglected. Most children in these homes know about the violence. Even if a child is not physically harmed, they may have emotional and behavior problems.
If you feel you are being abused contact Domestic abuse hotline
My thinking is that if he can make his hurting you YOUR fault, then he does not have to face up to what he has done. You say that he acknowledges that what he did was wrong but....... well really it was all your fault and he has the websites to prove it. My fear is that, once he has physically abused you once, then he will continue to do so because "it is all your fault. You make him do it."
That is the thinking of not only Alcoholics but also abusers in general.
You appear ready to do some work on yourself and that is so good for you. But please, do not take on his abusive behavior as being your fault. Perhaps it is time for you to have a safe place to go if the abuse continues.
Hi brightyellow,
I will simply add that I have never been more confused than when I tried to make sense of the many, often conflicting things my qualifier told me when in the grips of the disease. I doubted myself, my sanity, and ended up wasting a ton of energy and postponing the steps that would lead to real recovery for both of us.
AlAnon helped me understand that it is futile, and potentially harmful to gauge the validity of my own thoughts and recovery based on feedback from the alcoholic. When I first came to AlAnon, my own instincts on what I should do were turned upside down as a result of trying to handle someone else's disease on my own. Taking the focus off of the disease and using the wisdom and guidance from AlAnon brought me understanding, clarity and peace.
Best wishes on your journey of recovery, so glad you are here...be safe...
__________________
Paul
"...when we try to control others, we lose the ability to manage our own lives." - Paths to Recovery
BY .. I haven't read the other responses .. I want to be very clear .. I only have to be responsible for MY part and that is ALL .. in a DV situation where hands are laid on another person or walls are punched .. it doesn't matter what the victim did .. the perpetrator had the opportunity to walk away. That is an end statement .. it is never ok to punch walls throw thing or whatever.
In my situation .. I told my X that I didn't want him coming at me and he proceeded to lay down on my lap after I told him .. that I didn't want him to touch me. I jumped up off the couch and wound up knocking him off my lap which he fell into the coffee table and hit his back. Now .. is that my fault that he fell off my lap when I told him not to come near me? No. He continued after I said stop, don't come near me .. don't touch me .. after that he beat me .. and then he tried to blame me after all he wouldn't have beat me if I hadn't knocked him off my lap.
Situations can be escalated in a heart beat to what I call 911 situations .. that's why it's so important to have a plan B when things get out of control on any level .. what do I need to do to defuse the situation so it doesn't become a 911 call? I can leave .. I can not engage .. or the other party can leave .. if they choose not to I can't control that .. I can only control me.
You are not responsible for his actions. That's why counseling is so important with a DV counselor .. abusers are master manipulators. If I had a part in my own situation instead of telling him not to touch me .. I would leave the house. At the time I had no kids so it was just me.
Hugs S :)
PS - making sense out of nonsense is not my job and it's exhausting.
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
What popped in my mind is take what you like and leave the rest. I 100% agree that nothing you do or did is a cause for his or another's action/reaction. They are responsible for their part as you are responsible for yours.
Verbal, Emotional and Psychological Abuse are as damaging to the 'soul' of a person as the physical abuse. Many counselors will say the damage is worse as there is no proof and it's a he said/she said. When the disease of alcoholism is added, it's just a freakin' mess.
The beauty of recovery is we learn to do better and be better. We learn to set boundaries for our safety - emotional, physical, etc. We learn how to not react, not try to control and certainly to own our own stuff.
So, my experience before recovery - I would have argued cause and effect until the cows came home. I walked around focusing on what others did to me and never considered what I did (in reaction or as defense mechanisms). I felt less than, at fault, angry, bitter, etc.
Since recovery - I do not argue - if I need to speak, I do my best to state my truth and say it as I mean it without saying it meanly. This is, of course, after I assess how important is it? I don't discuss my feelings and needs with my alcoholics - it's a pointless discussion most of the time. I stay focused on me and what I can do today to be a good person and to be a peacemaker. I am at peace.
So - if he's blaming you, that's not worthy of a response. If he's suggesting you have some defects that bother him - it's worthy of a look. Whether he owns his behavior or not - not your issue and certainly beyond your control. But, as I've learned to listen better in this program, I do believe my HP sends me messages in many different ways. When my kids tell me that I 'make them ......' - it may sound crazy and defensive and as if they are blaming - but I still look for the intent vs. the content.
I believe in spite of the disease I owe them that much out of love. If you are seeing some signs of 'you' in what you are reading, that's OK. It's an opportunity to own it and change it. After all, we are about progress and not perfection and I am one who knows I have defects that I work on to improve.
(((Hugs))) to you. Own your piece and not the rest. BTW - you don't have to agree or disagree or clarify what you agree or disagree with. My best conversations with my AH have been when I've said nothing at all. He feels better and I kept my peace - so win/win - in spite of the content and/or intent. I answer to one only - and that's my HP.
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
What if it is you? What if it is him, or what if it is both of you? Should you stay in a dangerous situation that you can't figure out? Or should you just realize it's dangerous and get out, and then you can work on figuring it out, or even figuring out whether it is worth figuring out?
If you are in a car, and all kinds of warning lights start blinking, and you don't really know why, and they are confusing to you and scaring you, would you keep driving, or would you pull off to the side and turn off the car and figure it out?
I am not physically still in the situation but I have been talking to him on the phone and I am now really confused - I won't be going back into the situation without serious change and clarity but I guess I am trying to sort out my thoughts and I just feel sicker and sicker really. Step work? Prayer? What should I do?
I am going to reread the responses and take them in and I appreciate them so much.
Meetings, step work, prayer and most importantly TIME. Give yourself time and space to get clarity and feel more secure in just you rather than obsessing on you and your role in the relationship. Get to know and like yourself!
He came over today after 21 days of not seeing eachother and it was just horrible. I could feel the anger and blame in him. There was nothing I could say right (according to him). I just wanted to be pleasant but it was all this firm talking down to me. Apparently my life hasn't had to change and his has because he's had to move out etc - and yes I get that - but it is a consequence of me having to call the police due to his violence?! I mean I am sorry for him and his situation but I am not to blame. I can't even put it into words the blame and anger he tried to pull over me. I spoke afterwards and I said "you are so angry" to which he said he had a right to be and why wouldn't he be?
I am so sick of taking it on
I feel so for you in your present situation. I was there many years ago with my first husband. I was very young and he was really, really good at beating me and then getting in a corner and crying so I would feel guilty. It worked really well for a while until I couldn't take it anymore. Part of me will never overcome the damage that relationship did...and I changed inside from it. Please get help.
Now, I simply don't have it in me to deal with physical abuse in any way...I react so strongly to any threat of physical harm now. I won't bore you with the whole story, but I can assure you that physical abuse gets worse (with rare exceptions,of course). You did not cause these beatings and you cannot prevent them if you allow him back in your life.
Please know that so many of us have walked your walk.....of shame, embarrassment, hurt, broken dreams.....but you simply made a bad choice....that is all you have done wrong. We make thousands of bad choices in our lives. We ignore warning signs and think if we love them enough or give them what they didn't get as a child or....whatever.....then they will love us and all will be roses. It just doesn't happen that way. I am so sorry.
I pray you find peace and strength because batterers are some serious manipulators and you are literally playing with your life....kind of like Russian Roulette so to speak.
The "gas lighting" that goes on is unreal. I truly hope for your own sanity and safety you do not continue to engage him. He's off his rocker trying to rationalize irrational behavior and very bluntly .. You are too. 21 days of no contact doesn't undo years of learned behavior .. It takes 6 weeks of consistency to change a bad habit. I'm talking about nail biting .. Relearning good behavior .. Changing to a more positive outlook. Undoing damage of an abusive relationship is a whole other ball of wax. My concern is for your continued safety. You will eventually wind up with a tiger by the tail and then eBay are you going to do?? I actually have one scary and a funny story regarding that very thing I'll share on a separate thread. It does make me pause more. Lol
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Interesting as he told me today I was gaslighting him (I asked him if he's considered going into the rehab we had talked about).
I think I finally get it today and accept that I can't wish him into being the person I dreamt him to be...I can't put it in the right words but for the first time today I realised this.
brightyellow - in program terminology, you Let Go!! That's a great decision - now see if you can leave it there, one day at a time, one moment at a time.
He has no control over you just as you have no control over him. Live your life and Let your HP guide you forward.
(((Hugs))) - great job!! Keep coming back!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
My therapist used to say to me, "Sometimes you have to touch the stove again to see if it's still hot." It always was when I touched it again and got back in contact with my A. It didn't take long (like, seconds) for him to aim his dysfunctional thinking at me.
It's hard because we want so much for them to be what we once thought they were. It's hard thinking that they're not going to ride in on a white horse and make things better. I still wish someone would do that, lol! But in truth I get to get onto my own white horse and ride in and make myself better. That's a lot more dependable than relying on any other fallible human, much less an alcoholic with insanity in his thinking. And as we get healthier we attract more healthy people. When I think back to years ago, I can't believe how petty, critical, mean, and dysfunctional some of the people I was involved with were. It's nice to think that in the future our friends and partners will be so healthy and loving and good to be around that we'll think the same about the people we're letting go of now.
