Ohhhh, sweetheart. Wish I could be there to soothe you.

Your post bought back a memory for me :)

I remember being 7, 8, 9, 10, anxious for dad to come home. Both my parents are alcoholics, both still drinking. Dad would go out and drink at pubs and mum felt exactly like you do. It totally broke her heart that he didn't want to be home with us. She would sob about it in front of me and say things about him, like you mentioned. She was in a huge, all-consuming pain about it. That was difficult for me, it inadvertently made me responsible for her and him and their feelings. It made me take the problem on. It made me anxious.

Our situation was different than yours in that mum would stay at home and drink while he was out drinking with friends. She had to contact him at the pub when she went into labor with my sister, had to go to the pub to bring him home when my brother had to go to hospital with croup. Things like that. She felt so rejected by him. He was rarely home and when he was, they were fighting badly. In the mornings he would be shaking heavily from DTs and very irritable. Poor buggers, jeez they were/are trapped in hell. We all were.

So anyway, each night, every time a car would go by, I'd rush to the window hoping it was dad. I'd peek out the curtains. I was on the edge of my seat! I wanted him to come home and for it to be nice. I wanted him to come home so mum could be happy. In reality, he would come home long after I was in bed and have a physical fight with my mother, punching her etc. Round and round we went like this for many years. I don't know why I wanted him to come home, other than a formless vague wish for a father.

Seeing shows, waterskiing together, family functions, involvement in school? FORGET IT! My dad isn't capable of that. He is suffering with alcoholism. He's mentally and emotionally about 15. It's not reasonable or fair to keep expecting him to behave how I think he should - he can't. It's that simple. It's like expecting him to be able to walk through a wall and being devastated when he can't. It's like expecting him to be able to run as fast an an olympian and taking it personally when he can't or refuses to even try. His excuses, defenses and reasons for not being able to walk through a wall are the equivalent to 'oh so now I'm the bad guy'. They just say that stuff as automatic defense. He doesn't really know why he's doing this to his marriage and his child and himself. There's nothing unique about him.

My dad could learn how to do all those 'normal' things if he got to AA but he doesn't want to do that and I can't do anything about that. I've got enough on my plate managing my own self and life! But this is coming after a long grieving period and even yesterday I was resentful that I don't have parents like other people do.

I know myself how hard it is to navigate out of dysfunctional thinking, pain, sorrow and grief. If my alcoholics can't do it, I can have the humility to understand why now. It's not easy stuff. Especially with no tools.

By the time I was your daughter's age (well, I was 12), he was in jail and mum was preparing to leave. I was GLAD. I was relieved we were getting away from him and his violence - I thought he was going to kill her.

I think when we're in these situations it's really easy to catastophize and get ahead of ourselves. When we've had our hopes up many times and been let down many times, we can begin to expect nothing but more bad stuff ahead. I see a clue that this may be happening in your mind, when you talk about what might happen if you left - shared custody, embarrassment, this, that. Life gets really overwhelming when we worry about the future and what may and may not happen, mainly because we're worrying about things that aren't happening here now, so we have no actual power. Also, unless you're an android, you'd have to be hurting really badly right now. That's normal. When we're in that level of agony everything seems dire. You only have today, lovely one. Bring it back to here, where it's manageable. You don't have to have a plan or all the answers. What you need and deserve right now is some soothing, healing, comfort, inspiration, support, love.

Alanon doesn't give advice, but as someone who was in a similar-ish situation to your daughter, the best thing my mother could have done was to go to alanon, additional AA in her case, and leave him in as healthy a way as possible, then continue on with alanon. It might not be right for you to leave him, that's just what was best for me.

When you're a child and both your parents are deeply unhappy, it is very frightening. What is most important to you as a child is that at least one parent is stable and loving and gives you a sense of safety. One parent waterskiing with you is worth more than anything. Little things are enough. You can't change your husband, I promise you, there is nothing you can do to make him change. But you can get well within this situation. Stay with him or leave, but in my opinion the best thing you can do for your daughter is alanon. The reason I'm saying this is that alanon will heal your broken heart, and that will change how you live your life, and that will be all your daughter needs, regardless of what her dad gets up to. There's so much hope for her because she has a mother like you, who clearly loves her with a force more powerful than anything.

A marriage should be a real partnership. My partner (I'm not married, don't believe in marriage) is so reliable, dependable. I trust him completely. I expect him to help me, comfort me, be honest with me when I'm being irrational, and he does. He picks up the children, he cooks dinners, he helps with housework. He's always where he says he's going to be. He takes me into consideration. He doesn't do things he knows will hurt me. He's respectful and kind and loving. He'd never put his friends before me in an unfair way. He doesn't drink at all - I do, socially. He doesn't come from a background like mine but he does his best to understand and support me. Recently when my alcoholics were playing up, he was not judgmental of them but let me know clearly that he would help and even protect me. My children are not his children but he sits through boring school plays, comes to soccer matches, attends incredibly long dance recitals, facilitates guitar lessons, comes to family events, all those things. My childrens' father is not like that. I've had many crazy relationships before this one, because crazy relationships were all I knew. I'm telling you about my guy because you can have a guy like that and in my personal opinion, I'd rather be single than put up with anything less. There's nothing special about me. I don't deserve more than other women deserve. Good men exist. Alcoholic men are not bad men, they're just alcoholic men. If they get and stay sober, spectacular!!

I'm Australian so maybe should clarify terms. A pub is a bar. Mum is mom, but I'm sure you got that ;)

-- Edited by hiraeth on Thursday 20th of August 2015 06:45:42 AM

OMGOSH .. big hugs .. I am going to tell you straight out based upon what I watched my mom do to herself and to me in the process as a child I did resent my mom a great deal. It took a lot of therapy, alanon and growing up a bit (meaning getting knocked off my high horse) to have some compassion for how scared my mom lived. I still don't agree with her choices I do know as an adult I am responsible for my choices. I do have compassion which when I was in my 20's and 30's I just didn't.

The one thing I tell both of my kids ALL of the time I will give you a pass on playing the woe is me card until they hit 25ish after that they will have to deal with some hard truths the biggest one is that they are no longer children and they are responsible for their own choices and consequences of those choices. My girl is 16 and has flatly said marriage is not for her, and neither are kids .. you know what .. that's totally ok .. she's completely entitled to that feeling and I have told both of my kids I never want them to feel pressured about marriage or kids. It's totally ok not to get married or make the decision not to have children. Neither is easy. Both have pluses and minuses. I don't fight her on her feelings, or do the oh she'll change her mind .. today this is how she feels and if in 30 years she feels the same way .. more power to that girl. She's amazing just the way she is. I only want her to have tremendous happiness and joy regardless of her choices. My son at 11 will tell you straight up he wants kids and he wants to get married. Again .. more power to him .. I tell him all the time .. it can be a rewarding experience with the right person. Marriage can be a wonderful thing .. divorce seriously sucks get a post-nup and know ahead of the game how to divide things out there will be no fighting. Knowing the cost up front may help him and his partner save their relationship .. if not at least it won't take no 3 1/2 years to get it done! And YES .. these are conversations I have had with both of the kids at the questions they come to me with .. we keep it real .. lol.

I have worried about how can I raise my kids as a single parent and after listening to them last night I soooo made the right decision. The belly laughing that was going on in our home was almost to much .. LOL .. seriously I thought someone was going to call and complain .. LOL! This was a continuation of what had started 3 hours prior. In the home with my XAH .. that would have never happened .. so what I have learned in alanon even if I stayed with my XAH I think I could have found my own happiness understanding our lives would not be together in a traditional sense and expecting him to pick up any parenting roles is completely unreasonable .. mine can't do it part-time I don't mean 50/50 joint custody I mean more like 99/1 .. me being the 99%. I wouldn't trade that role for all of the tea in China .. we like tea .. lol. Listening to them last night just being kids instead of being afraid and wondering .. knowing I'm present and I love them hands down is all they have and it IS enough. I find other role models for the kids. I think people who choose to stay have an incredible program and at that point I couldn't step up my game that way .. and I was already to a point where enough was enough for me. Way to much water under the bridge I couldn't bridge that gap alone. If I really get honest though even if there was no alcohol I don't think I could have done it because we would have lived totally separate lives.

Right now my kids are wanting a "real" dad .. I'm hearing it from my youngest .. he tells me all the time .. Mom .. you are a bad donkey's butt dad .. it would be nice to have an actual dad. (he's pretty funny with his terms .. LOL). He wants that guy he can talk to .. imagine being a little boy having to talk to your mom about puberty .. LOL .. not a fun thing for either of us trust me. Discussing sex with my daughter is hard enough .. forget about my little boy who I really don't have good solid ESH answers for from a guys perspective.

Yes, .. you can teach your daughter so much how to respect herself by respecting yourself. She will only learn that though if you do that for you. My daughter has hugged me and told me Mom .. you got this and we will back you no matter what .. there are days though I won't lie .. I think holy crap .. what did I get myself into and then last night happens and it melts away every single insecurity I was having and I wake up thinking I can take on the world because I have the two best cheerleaders standing next to me.

Hugs S:)

Every time I think I have posted everything I have to give, I read something like you have written and it is exactly as my live has been.

You are most certainly not alone in this situation. My own daughter will turn 16 next month. Her father has been drunk her entire life, except for a six-month period about three years ago when I had a serious surgery ,but he was not sober for that reason then...it was because he needed to get out of trouble) but he got sober with the help of AA just over four months ago.

I have lived exactly what you are talking about and so has she. We did everything together, but to start with I minimized everything and tried to keep the drinking away from her. We would even call it daddies Diet Coke or daddy's Pepsi or something so that she would not drink it. She knew it was different but didn't know what it was. Of course, being an extremely bright child, that didn't last very long. Neither did my calm acceptance. I was just like you! Maybe much much worse.

I remember thinking that staying was terrible but being apart was worse because she would have to go see him for visitation and I couldn't control the person or people he would have her around. I have a very long history working in the criminal justice system and I have seen what happens to too many children. God, I wish I had gotten to alanon sooner! I was really screwing this little girl up and didn't know it. Her anxieties are horrible. She worries constantly. It became amazingly better though since I started practicing the philosophies of Al-Anon.

I even did the horrible thing of asking her what SHE WANTED ME TO DO, which is so unfair. I didn't mean to be unfair. I thought I was doing the right thing. I thought I was getting her input and how she really felt. What I was doing was putting a little girl in the place where she felt responsible for her parents and their screwed up relationship.

I started to notice as she reached her preteen and earliest teen years, that she was jealous when I would get close to her daddy Especially with the hugs and kisses that he always seemed to exaggerate when he was starting to become intoxicated each day.   It was specially bad because she felt pushed away the older she became. As intoxication progressed, he would go from very loving to grouchy to irritable and on to passing out. At first, while she was very little, she worshiped him. She always wanted daddy to carry her in to places where she was going to be seen by others and I have to admit I was jealous of that because I felt left out. It was almost a battle for her affection. That's pathetic! But, it is true. I'm ashamed of that now and wish I could've done a better job. Of course, I did the best I knew how. I am an adult child of an alcoholic and a child of the enabling, codependent dynamic. My father, thank God, was dry before he died. When he finally did get sober after so many times trying, he was into AA with everything he had. But, that was the time I saw him truly love my mother and it was amazing to me.  It was if he were a different person, one I had never met, and I had to get to know him all over again. It did give me the chance to see why Mother stayed.  It was night and day to what I had lived before and it was what I wanted my life to be. They were truly happy. He died suddenly of a heart attack about 14 years ago. She has since married her high school sweetheart, but it's never the same. He loves her, but is controlling and mean on occasions to others...she is still an enabler, but he is not a drinker.  

As for your relationship with your daughter, we are not really recommended to give advice, so I'm going to try very hard not to do that. I am going to say that the literature from Al-Anon is amazing and meetings and information will help you to make the decision that's best for you. I reached my breaking point and made my decision the day he hit bottom. Fortunately, I had only reserved the appointment with the correct lawyer at that time, but that was only because the grace of God had sent me to the wrong attorneys office. That night, he hit true bottom At least I pray it's his bottom. He has been in AA since and is really working the program. Detox, thank God, was able to be done at home, however it did take a few weeks. Hey did try to hang on to that last one to two daily beers (down from 30+ a day), but circumstances set the deadline for him and he has not picked up one since. That was 12 April, this year. There is no comparison to before and after.

I tell you this because all things are possible. He was so very much like your husband. I was so very much like you and my daughter like your daughter. I don't know what is right for you, but I understand your hesitation to leave because I do understand your fear. Either way, please find Al-Anon because they can help you. You can become the stable parent you want to be and she can learn from you how to handle adversity in an honest, reasonable, rational way.  Whether you decide to be on your own or to stay is your choice. They will not push you or judge you and there will be people who have made both decisions. 

Right now, I believe I made the best decision by staying, even though I honestly internally despised my husband at the time.  It would have been better for everyone if I had gotten involved heavily with Al-anon much earlier. Who  could have ever imagines I could actually love him and enjoy his company and affection again?  I know I have been shocked by my own emotional changes when I accepted him anew and quit being the "perfect....controlling...pathetic...nagging....needy" wife.

Only you can decide what is right for you and your daughter, so I pray you will be able to find the answers you so desperately seek.  You are in my thoughts and prayers.