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So we are almost at closing time on our house sale. We've hit some snags along the way but I'm hoping things go smoothly from here on out and I can breath a little easier in our new condo. The reason we had to sell our house is because we couldnt afford it any longer. Always about $500 - $800 short every month even with me working two jobs (I've since quit the second one because I got totally burned out). So with the condo we will only be about $300 short. You see where I'm going with this. I'm afraid I'm going to have to work a part time job again in addition to my full time one. I am not going to be a happy camper.
The problem is I'm wondering if my RAH is going to attempt to find a steady job this time. I know it's not easy out there. Being a 52 year old man with no computer skills and lots of competition from younger college kids. But I just don't think he's really trying. people say he has to concentrate on staying sober. But can't he do that and work at the same time? he's very involved in AA. Do they encourage people to find work and start paying for their children? This is where the resentment and bitterness comes in. I've been pretty much picking up the slack here for 18 years because as everyone points out to me--he is sick. The kids are 13 and 16. We all know they cost an arm and a leg to raise. He's been working the program since June. I'm at the point where I'm worried we will not be able to make the rent and it's going to fall on me again. It's almost like I'm a single mother except as my therapist said I have a grown man I'm supporting. So I gave him 30 days to find a job or he has to leave. It's very scary making ultimatums and I don't even like doing that since I have never followed through before But this time feels like I have no other choice. If I'm going to be out there working like a dog he can't be home laying on the couch watching TV.
As a side note, he has emphysema. So I feel bad about that but he's not on an oxygen tank or anything yet and he gets around pretty good. And he even still smokes cigarettes here and there. I think he is capable of working at least part time. Am I wrong here? Right before he got in the program he was ready to leave me and the kids with the mess of selling the house and all that entails while he vacationed with a buddy in Montana for a month. His idea was he could get away from it all and dry out. Needless to say he hasn't used the ticket his family purchased for him yet. It's good for a year. But that thought keeps creeping back in my mind saying hey he didn't give a crap about throwing me under the bus and leaving me and the kids to deal with the sale of the home and fixing all the repairs that it needed before it could even pass inspection. Why should I bend over backwards for him anymore? People say well he's sober and he feels good aren't you happy? Well of course I'm happy that he's sober but that doesn't solve the problem that we are still going to be broke at the new place if he doesn't find a job.
Hi Rosanne I do hear you and understand completely your process and where you are coming from. It is a difficult situation and you are not super woman.
I am happy that he is attending AA and pursuing recovery that is an accomplishment. I don't believe you're asking too much. as you are suggesting a part-time job. Supermarkets, department stores such as home depot- should all be places that would be able to provide some employment..
Please continue to attend your alanon meetings Prayers and positive thoughts for a successful outcome for your family
I'm not sure if you have a sponsor Yankeerose, a couple of thoughts come to mind in reading your post. Meetings, steps and sponsors being the biggest ones. Are you prepared to follow through on your "boundary" or is this just talk to get him to do something?
First off 60 days sober, nothing to sneeze at and I don't mean to belittle it in any way, that's a drop in the bucket regarding recovery. I have heard around the tables it can take 2 years to really dry out and get back to good solid brain functioning, granted everyone is different and it really depends on how long and how much time was spent drinking/drunk.
I agree he needs to step up however the bigger question is can he mentally? Most recovering alcoholics I know are playing catch up regarding as to when they started drinking and when they dried out .. he might have the body of a 52 year old man however mentally he might only be 15. I know for me dealing with my X is like dealing with a very angry teenager and I would say 15 is the right age in my X's case. Without sponsor, real recovery, working steps it won't matter if he never drinks again this is where he will remain stuck.
Most of what I have seen in AA is that with sponsor relationships .. I don't know of many sponsors who do not call people out and say hey what are you doing .. however there is a trick .. how honest are they in their program? If they aren't being honest then .. well .. how can anyone change if they aren't willing to be honest about what is going on??
I hope you have a plan B for you and the kids and yes .. addiction is incredibly selfish so the only thing I find my X thinking about is the fact he shouldn't have to do even what is legally required of him .. he keeps it up we are going to be going to court yet again .. I'm not willing to roll over on it. He's very unlucky in that regard. You absolutely need to know you can take care of yourself and the kids with or without him. I wish I had been smarter about that part of the deal. The reality is he may not be able to make that jump and I'm definitely not saying he shouldn't have to .. mentally can he.
Hugs keep coming back and keep looking at what you can do to keep the focus on you.
S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Thanks Betty. You're right. We live in a very suburban area. Those stores are all close by some even walking distance. I'm trying not to project into the future but the rent is due every month so it's kinda hard not to wonder where it's going to come from. He said I'm putting too much presure on him. So I guess I have to leave it be and have faith and hope for a good outcome.
Rosanne, I can relate. I don't have the answers, or even much advice, but just wanted you to know you're not alone.
My AH isn't working at the moment and hardly seems to be making much effort to find employment. I'm working full-time plus run a small side business. It's working out okay for right now, but certainly isn't sustainable. I understand that my AH is focusing on himself and his recovery, and am glad for that, but recovery unfortunately doesn't pay the bills!
It's hard to have no expectations when you're barely making ends meet and I know it can be so frustrating to try to use Al Anon tools to find peace when outside circumstances are so rough.
Like I said, I don't know the answer. How do I reconcile what Al Anon tells me I should do for recovery (mine and his) with what I feel like I need to do in order to live? It's confusing.
I'm hoping it becomes clearer with more time and more work...for both of us!
Serenity I would love to get a sponsor. I just went back to work full time after a two month medical leave so I haven't gotten to any F2f meetings lately. Once I get the house sold and get settled I want to find a good home group that I click with. I really need some strength here to follow thru with the ultimatum. I do feel I'm much stronger than I was just a few months ago. I can't continue to be a doormat.
But I get what you're saying about his recovery being so fresh. He told me he was still unsure of himself so he never made some phone calls to the construction firms he was supposed to. He drank for over 30 years. It's just we are in such a bad predicament with finances right now and it seems to always fall on me. Thanks so much for your insight. I see now that I need to get back to meetings to find some sanity.
Speaking out of my AA side, most likely he is being encouraged to be employed. Most in recovery know that idle hands and idle minds are not good things. Any job is contributing - McD's even pays $8/hour now. My perspective is if one can work hard enough to plan well enough to stay continuous under the influence, most likely one can work a minimum wage job - I would even suggest 40 hours is very acceptable.
Speaking out of my Al-Anon side, I am sorry you feel so much pressure because of this disease. I know the feeling of juggling all these balls in the air, and so afraid one or more is going to drop. What's most important is you taking care of you - anyway that you can. I agree - meetings, literature, sponsor, step works, etc. Find any time and do what you can - even if it's a quick walk with your HP or reading the dailies a couple times. Trust your HP and stay in the moment as best you can.
I ended up selling items around the house on Craigslist many times to have extra monies for needs. Pray and meditate and I am certain answers will come. I've also rented a room out before to have extra monies for needs.
(((Hugs))) to you. I do understand resentments and bitterness. Just remember that you can't do anything about the past and the future is an unknown at this point. So, do what you can to stay in the now! That helped me tons with resentments!
Keep coming back - we're just a post away...
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
RealitySucker everything you said is how I'm feeling. Especially the part about recovery not paying the bills! That's so true. I tell my A that the landlord or the mortgage company is not going to care that you are busy getting sober! Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone. I've been in a real rut the last few days. Coming here makes me feel better.
Thank you Iamhere. It's good to know that he is most likely being encouraged in AA to find some work. $8 an hour is $8 more than what we have! I am so afraid of getting stuck in that rat race of the 7 day work week again. It definitely is what sent me over the edge. I'm so tired of juggling.
My son, daughter and I have been posting lots of items on the online yard sales thru Facebook. Right now we are trying to sell my daughters bedroom set as it's too big for her room at the condo. I'm even thinking of selling my diamond engagement ring. This is how bad it's gotten. Thanks for being there everyone!
These are tough times. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to get a job, but it may be unrealistic. He doesn't sound motivated and to be real, he may have enough going on in his brain where it's just a bridge too far. That's not to say it's "okay." It's totally not okay. But ...
I'm wondering if there's a way you can get a place that's $300 a month cheaper. Because already being $300 a month short sounds like a recipe for major, major stress. And relying on an early-recovery addled-brain alcoholic who isn't even looking for a job for the crucial piece of the rent ... that sounds like even more major stress. If you're able to make the rent without him, that's perfect. And then if he gets his act together and can contribute, fine and dandier. And if you've just been off work two months with a health issue, the last thing you need on your shoulders is a second job. Horrific.
If he does move out, I wonder if that would mean that you could consolidate and get a smaller place. Maybe share a room with your daughter. (Far from ideal, I know.) I don't know your family situation, but assuming he's the father of your children, in the case of a divorce the courts would order him to pay child support, and even for an unemployed person that's usually at least $150 per child per month. Of course, actually getting the money is another matter entirely.
Wishing you peace and strength as you move forward.
Thanks Mattie. Yes the children are both his. I threaten divorce and the child support thing all the time but I guess they would have to throw him in jail because you can't get blood from a stone.
As far as a cheaper place--not really unless we went for a one bedroom and then we would really be tight. Since I have a boy and a girl and they are teens I gave them the bedrooms and husband and I are on a sofabed in living room.
But reading everyone's posts has made me understand that his brain may not be ready for all this yet. He did promise to try to find a job so I guess I have to have a little faith in him. So many years of lies makes it really hard to believe in someone.
Of course we'll hope he steps up to the plate, and it's not out of the question. But if that doesn't happen, I guess the crucial question is whether you'd follow through with insisting that he leave. It sounds as if you've made a lot of threats in the past so he may be confident that you won't. If you did, another question would be which would be less undesirable. One choice would be a one-bedroom apartment with you and daughter in the bedroom and your son on a sofabed; the other choice would be you working a second job. I guess there's also the question of whether you'd qualify for public assistance. All of these are hard choices. Maybe it's not good to dwell on them, but I found that with an alcoholic, having a Plan B saved my bacon on numerous occasions. Wishing you much strength and peace!
Rosannne another thought on the subject.
You indicated that your husband had emphysema. Is it possible he might be eligible for disability or the family eligible for another form of assistance?
Continued prayers .
I wish he could. We've tried applying for disability. He wasn't eligible since he didn't pay into it long enough. The last time he worked on the books was 2004 and it lasted about 2 months.
Thanks. As far as public assistance goes I make too much for food stamps but I do qualify for moderate housing. The only problem is there's a waiting list of 1-3 years. In the meantime I'm getting on that list so maybe when our lease is up in a year something cheaper will be available.
When my X left me in 2012 I was not working at the time and I did have some additional support through family, friends and church. What I did was weigh the good vs the bad in working full-time off the bat and I took a pay cut so I could stay home with the kids, after I went back to work plus I went part-time. Maybe it was selfish of me to do that to the kids however having me healthier than I was and not in crazy mode was far more important. I used that time to deal with the divorce as much as possible which was a lot considering he just refuses to acknowledge it's happening. It meant going on food stamps and assistance for a bit. It was the best decision for me at the time. It benefited the kids far more than it took away from them they had already lost so much in a short period of time. While you might not qualify for total assistance there are other programs that can help with food. They used to do a program called SHARE .. and what that was is you volunteered at the local food pantry and could either take home or donate a food basket. If he's healthy enough to stand I don't see why he couldn't participate in something like that where he could give to others while at the same time providing for his family. That's just me looking at it from the outside in kind of thing and honestly I don't know how to encourage a guy to do something like that without telling them or doing it for them which is not always a good thing either .. at least it's a way to give baby steps towards accomplishments vs beating himself up .. if that makes any sense and it certainly doesn't excuse the fact that again .. yes .. he should be working .. however some progress is better than no progress. He really needs to face the real world it just may be that this could be used as a different avenue.
I'm currently in a tough situation and I just started calling every number I could think of and just as a plan B for yourself .. I really encourage you to know your resources so you are not struggling. I know I did not think clearly when my XAH and I split, I was very grateful to have as much Alanon as I did behind me because it helped me deal with everything. I do hope you can find meetings that will fit your schedule just being in a room full of different stories however the feelings are similar is a huge step in not feeling alone and helpless. Powerlessness I can deal with that is something I'm ok with .. helplessness I panic.
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Thank you Serenity. I really do hate feeling helpless. That is how I'm feeling right now. We do have a local soup kitchen and numerous food pantries run by the churches in the area. I will let him know that's a great idea. Our food bill is sky high with two teenagers!
Hi Yankeerose-
I certainly can empathize with your situation. I, too am in charge of the household bills (not by choice, as I do not get help from my AW most of the time). My spouse is working two jobs but shares very little of it with me. She's currently making more money than me and then doesn't have enough at the end of the month. It's all being used for booze. Plus, I just found out her wages were being garnished issues from the court that I knew nothing about. That's thanks to me working 2 jobs and going to school, not realizing how bad the situation was. Right now I am working only one job almost full-time until school starts again, and she has to help out with gas. that was a hard ultimatum for me to make, but it has worked (with much complaining). I just pointed out that she is working two jobs and making more than me- either this or the street. It is hard.
I know this is not ideal, and really not fair to ask your 16 year old, but can he/she work to help offset costs- if nothing else to alleviate things your teenager can buy (clothes, movie tickets, gas for his/her car use, etc.). It doesn't seem fair, but maybe it'd be motivation for your AH to do the right thing. Just a thought. Hugs to you and your situation. I pray help will be available to you soon.
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Butterflies can't see their wings. They can't see how truly beautiful they are, but everyone else can. People are like that as well. Anonymous
Sorry to hear about your situation Gabigail. Funny you ask about my 16 year old. He actually turns 16 on Saturday so he was just talking about putting some job applications out there. I told him to check Monster, Indeed and Snag-a-Job. There are tons of job postings for our area on those sites. And yes, just maybe that will set an example for his dad. Wonderful idea!
Wow! I sure now how you feel and it sure makes me feel not so alone. I'm going through some tough times myself and I know the only person I can change is "ME". Sometimes I get tired of working on me but the benefits out way the struggles. Good for you for setting a boundary with him. I know it's hard to follow through. I've done the same thing so many times. I plan on going to more meetings and putting myself out there and connecting with more Alanon people. I've been in Alanon for about 12 years and thought I had it all figured out and then my husband started having heart problems. So I know how it can be hard sometimes when they are physically sick to set boundaries even more and take care of ourselves. I think you are a courageous and competent women. We who have lived with this insane disease deserve a metal. Hang in there and I will too.
I am picturing a booth with "Excuses and Emotional Immaturity for sale!" Maybe he could make money that way. Lol...sorry for the snarky evil joke here.
Thank you Pinkchip and Lynn, as I sit here and wonder am I being too hard on him? Am I going to be the reason he starts to drink again? He said this is causing a lot of pressure at a time when he is "unsure of himself" and his family says the same. I know that if he falls off the wagon I will certainly be the one to blame. I can see it all playing out now. "she had to go and put the house up for sale, she had to yell and scream, she had to put pressure on him to get a job." The bottom line is there are two kids here that require monetary support and they are not getting it from their father. And yes now there is another excuse--he's working on his sobriety. I went out and cleaned other people's toilets on the weekends to make money. I don't feel any job is beneath me. I think this is how he feels. He is a carpenter by trade and seems to refuse to do any other type of work even though there doesn't seem to be any work available in that field in the moment. Nothing more than little side jobs that make a couple hundred dollars here and there. We spend that a week in food alone. I guess I need to leave it up to HP.
It is unsettling Roseanne Alanon suggests that we can accomplish more by detaching, praying and trusting HP .He knows what he needs to do. Since we are powerless over others and our" reacting" to their insanity only allows them to shift the blame.
I did need to keep the focus on myself, investigate all MY options and then act like a single parent It isi not what I wanted but it worked . I know it is not easy but cutting back on snacks, treats,and searching out food kitchens might just help for now.
Yes Betty, I just said I am going back to being an extreme coupon cutter again! I plan on putting a certain amount of money in an envelope for the week for food. When that's gone that's it.
I was meant to be on this post and read it all cause it reminds me of what it was like, what happened and what it is like now. I mostly relate with Betty being an old timer also. I can tell you there was a time that I thought all of the Al-Anon feedback was trite and slick and the first time I tried the program it was crap and I ran. I got sicker as promised and came back in and mostly just got quiet and listened anyway. The way things were put took on special meaning after a while like the steps were suggested as "Trust God....Cleans House and then....Help Others" I cannot tell you how that has come out for me even considering that I think members still see them as trite. Trusting God was a challenge for me to just take my hands, mind and mouth out of the problem and keep my attitude positive and open to good stuff coming around. It always comes around and I didn't want to miss an inch of it when it did cause I was NEEDY!! The Slogans became mind sets for me and had me thinking in a more positive, healthy light no matter what was going on. Betty said "This too will pass" and I can tell you that it is very true whether you believe it or not. When you have the expectation that "things" pass then that also means the negative stuff. I've had negative situations pass in my Al-Anon life that put me in awe and at other times had me laughing out loud when everyone else around me was in shock and feeling sick. I've been in situations which often were fatal for others that passed leaving others as spectators shaking their heads. I just went thru two events like such.
Attitudes of gratitude's are a rule of thumb for me...a core base of holding on to my recovery with a smile and laugh and thank you for my Higher Power and everyone else that participates with me...I am not alone ever and there are tons and tons of others around me who participate together. I had questions about income after coming away from the last two cranial/brain surgeries which I was told most people often only get a nick at one. I came home and only did my physical recovery and then work started to arrive from "out there". I don't get complacent and proud with it happening without me asking for it...I get grateful and say again...Place me where you want me...tell me what to do.
Do your recovery and then let God do for you what you cannot (sometimes even will not) do for yourself. Prayers for you both...this is a nasty disease. ((((hugs)))) Share some of those hugs with your alky.
Jerry F thanks so much for your words of wisdom and kind advice. It is very much appreciated and needed. I say this often but I will say it again: I am so grateful to have found this forum. You all are wonderful and I can relate to so many of you. That helps get me through the day.
Hey Yankeerose.
I've been in a similar situation and although my circumstances won't mirror yours I had to take some pretty bold steps to shake myself and my A free of the idea that I was going to be his eternal provider. I got to the point where i couldn't live another day feeling as though I was his mother.
Basically I had to make sure the rent was paid and we had access to basic services but i drew the line at providing him with any kind of luxuries. I bought separate food for my child and I, I kept my coffee, yummies, drinks (and smokes, yeah i smoked back then) separate. I stopped paying for him to join us on any fun days out and basically made it clear that if he wanted to enjoy life's "niceties" he would have to find a way to pay. I did buy him very basic items like cheap bread and baked beans. But anything else was off limits.
Believe me it was not an easy transition and he went MENTAL when he realised I would not buy alcohol or cigarettes for him anymore.
I had to take it to extremes in the end and allow the internet to be disconnected (he spent his days playing computer games instead of looking for work) and even let the electricity be disconnected twice (making sure my child and I were prepared for an 'adventure" with a camp-stove, lots of charged batteries etc. It really was quite an adventure but it was liberating and when i was no longer paying for his hedonism I felt far less resentment.
I agree that "recovering from alcoholism" in no way means he needs or should demand a wife to provide for him so that he can not work.
He did eventually get a job, by the way. People tend to be a lot more capable when they don't have someone being capable for them.
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Thanks Missmeliss. I have thought about doing those things you did like cutting off the cable and his cell phone. I tried taking his van off my car insurance policy but in New Jersey if you are married and living in the same house they won't do it unless the other spouse moves out. It seems like going to extremes worked for your A since he did find a job. This is so very hard and embarrassing as well. I know people look at me and think why does she put up with it?
((Roseanne)0 I did get to the point that what others think of me is none of my business. You know you are doing all you can to rebuild your life as the result of this painful chronic disease
I don't think your interest in him contributing to the costs of raising the kids and supporting the household is unreasonable at all. There is even online work these days. There are honestly so many options out there to at least make some money and participate in supporting himself financially and the family. If he can consider a trip to a friend's place, he isn't too fragile to hold a job in my humble opinion.
You're doing a good job of understanding and requesting what you deserve. Whether you can get that from him is yet to be seen. From what I've heard about the other program, people are urged to take responsibility and to clear the wreckage of their past. To me, clearing the wreckage would mean changed behavior in the present. This is pretty much what we practice in the Alanon program ourselves. Part of a 4th step in both programs can be a searching and fearless inventory of how we have addressed financial matters. I found this pretty enlightening and a real opportunity for growth. The most interesting part for me was seeing the financial/emotional enmeshment. This piece of the 4th step helped me to create clearer boundaries for myself in this area of what's acceptable. It can be revisited over and over again because life on life's terms ... well, is not life in a straight line, changes occur that affect me financially.
I hope something here helps you a bit. You sound like you're working very hard to give yourself and your kids what's needed. You're finding your answers within yourself. You can make choices now reflective of your recovery. That's definitely an asset. (((hugs))) TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
Yes Betty I tend to care too much about what others think. I need to work on that.
TT--everything you said makes perfect sense. Sometimes I just need justification that I am doing the right thing or at the very least heading along the right path. You all have shown me that I am. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!
Share some of those hugs with your alky.