The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I'm going to try to keep this as short and concise as possible.
My Dad's ex wife, and the mother to my teenage sister, is dying from complications of her alcohol abuse. Her liver is officially destroyed, her other organs are failing and she is in a coma and on a ventilator. Today they discovered internal bleeding and her blood pressure is dropping. She is 45. She is dying.
I am completely and utterly consumed with rage. There has never been any warmth in my heart for this woman...I don't need to explain to a forum full of people who have alcoholic's in their life why that is. We can just say it has been a horrifically dysfunctional 15 years that I have had the displeasure of knowing her, and she has caused an immeasurable amount of pain and carnage in my life and the lives of my loved ones.
And now, she is dying. I feel sadness for my Dad and sister, because they love her. I plan to be there for them in whatever capacity I can.
I need to forgive this woman. Not for her, but for me. I use to think that eventually when this day came, and she was lying on her death bed, all my anger would dissipate and I would be left with pity. This is not the case. I'm actually angrier now than I've ever been. I'm watching her piss poor decisions once again affect the people I love and I hate her for it.
I feel like a monster for hating another human being at this level, and I also recognize how bad this is for me. I've been carrying around this anger for years and years and I so desperately need to let it go. Why can't I let this go?
Welcome to MIP - so glad you are here and so glad you posted.
So very sorry for the loss that will affect soon those you love. This disease is progressive and if not treated can and will result in death. It sounds as if she's not been able to treat her disease and get the necessary help to arrest it, and it will soon take her life.
My best suggestion for you is that you are responsible for how you react and act. That's what Al-Anon teaches us. We have no control over other people, their choices and/or their actions. All we control is how we deal with them. I understand you are angry and I understand you have had to 'live' with this for a long while. It can stop as easy as today if you accept that you can't do anything for her, and no longer what to live in hate/anger/resentments.
It comes down to seeing life on life's terms. You can choose happiness or you can choose anger. You can choose to be supportive or you can choose to be resentful. At the end of the day, the only person hurt by your anger is you. Try to see her as a sick person who is terminal, as that's the reality of what you describe. I believe that she probably did not see her life ended at this age in this way. I believe that the disease took control of her and she was defenseless against the first drink (which leads to oblivion more often than not). I believe this is a disease that she's suffering from and not a choice.
Al-Anon can help you figure out different ways to process and react to life and life issues, esp. when this disease is involved. I hope this helps in some small way - you and your family deserve peace and the only way I know to head that direction is to accept what's going on, and then find compassion through understanding it's a disease and not a choice.
Glad you found us and hope you keep coming back! (((Hugs))) to you and your family in this difficult time.
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Be gentle with yourself. It's understandable that you cannot forgive at this moment. As time goes on, and your family is no longer in as much pain, detachment and forgiveness may come. I read a definition that forgiveness is releasing someone from a debt that they can never repay. That helped me.
I am sorry your family is going through this hard time.
Viewing it as a disease is something I am struggling with. I've attended al anon meetings for a few years (I was in a relationship with an alcoholic for 3 years...) and once we broke up about 2 years ago I stopped attending. It was always a contentious point for me as I felt it absolved the alcoholic of their control over their choices and behaviour.
I'm sure you guys hear that a lot here. I'm not trying to start an argument or be difficult... If I could wrap my mind around it, it would make it a lot easier for me to forgive.
Welcome I am so sorry that you are confronted by the dreadful results of this disease. I can so identify and understand your anger and rage You are correct, forgiveness is for ourselves because the anger only hurts us. I found that letting go of the anger really helped me to let go of the judgement of the person. Alanon meetings and tools help Keep coming back.
Aloha Scooty...you found the chair that was meant for you here and I am glad we never lock the door on those who drop by and then leave for a while. If they did I would be in dire straights. You have received some very appropriate feedback the kind I had trouble with understanding right away because I was so angry and self centered and in deep need of a change in perspective. I raged until it just didn't make sense any longer because the alcoholic/addict kept drinking and using and the disease went on and on.
Death is imminent and alcoholism is a fatal disease unless it is arrested by total abstinence and a program of recovery starts. Forgiveness is the opposite of resentment and I loved learning that because resentments were killing me and often directed in the wrong direction. Anger for me was evidence of my fear and I also hated feeling so vulnerable all the time. You have been watching a person die for a long long time and might now be left only with broken hopes from her...sad. Now she needs he love you wanted to get from her. Love is the complete and total acceptance of every other person for exactly who they are. Its okay to give her that regardless of her reaction. Keep coming back. Go find other open meetings and let us know how things come out. (((((hugs)))))
I dealt with a similar situation with a family member, and you are on the right track. Keep searching for a way to divest yourself of the resentment and anger because it will definitely not abate after her death. Al-Anon has helped me greatly with beginning to get control of anger and stored resentment. Keep coming back. It gets better.
I hunted down a windy diatribe that I wrote about the "disease vs. behavior" argument. Thought it might to useful to you to read how I eventually got around it. (then again...take what you want and leave the rest!)
Re-post:
I fought the "this is not a disease - it's a behavior" battle for a long time. It's a tough one.
I finally was forced into experiences with other types of addiction - namely opiates/heroin, and saw the parallels between alcoholism and other types of addiction, and that made me re-think.
I also had to recognize my own experiences being addicted to nicotine, and that made me re-think.
Smoking in particular made me filter out a few things because, an addiction to nicotine does not elicit all of the bad behaviors that many other addictions do, so the "bad person" thing wasn't a factor in thinking through this.
My addiction to nicotine took control of my thought patterns regarding the act of smoking.
I knew it was bad for my lungs. I knew it tasted bad. I knew it was bad for my skin. I knew it causes cancer. I knew it was sucking what little money I had out of my pocket. I knew it smelled bad. I knew it was frowned upon socially more and more. I knew it limited the number of people that might consider me an otherwise intelligent person. I knew it constricted my veins and caused hardening of the arteries. I knew it weakened my heart. I knew I was a slave to it and had to consider it in all facets of my life :
Got smokes?
Got a light?
Can I smoke there?
Does any one else there smoke?
How long am I going to be in this non-smoking environment?
When I escape it, no matter what, I have to smoke.
Better not let those people see me smoke (I'll make an excuse to go out into the freezing rain to get something so I can smoke.)
If I smoke in here and open the windows, how long will it take until you can't tell I smoked in here?
Now, not everyone who tries nicotine becomes an addict. I did. My logic-driven rational-thinking self gave way to the disease of addiction. I no longer had control over myself when it came to cravings for nicotine. I would justify my need to smoke. I'm young, I'll quit later. When things settle down I'll quit. When I would quit, I could use any bump in life's road to justify needing a cigarette, and it seems my life's road was made from cobblestone.
Objectively, and for people who do not smoke, this is clearly insanity, inanity, stupidity, immaturity, and bad behavior.
But @#^& them. Damn Do-gooder, goody-2-shoes, holier-than-thou pontificating wusses. What right do they have to infringe on my right to smoke if I want to? They're MY LUNGS!
This became a very clear depiction of addiction for me. My chemistry has been altered to be a slave to nicotine because I, unlike some others, have the genetic propensity for this to occur, and to occur very fast, and to take root in a very strong way.
Is it a disease? Define it how you want, but when the body and/or mind exist in a state that is detrimental to continuing health and longevity and changing that state is beyond the control of your intellect and rational, to me, the body or mind has a disease.
Your body creates mutated cells at an alarming rate - cancer - a disease. Your body does not create insulin and therefore cannot properly regulate glucose - a disease - diabetes. Your mind invents voices telling you to commit atrocious acts, or produces visions of things or people that are not there - a disease - schizophrenia. Your mind and body go behind your intellect's back to convince you that it's alright to regularly inhale 4000 toxic burning chemicals that are killing you - a disease - addiction. Your mind and body go behind your intellect's and moral character's back to make you lie, hide, hurt your loved ones, endanger others on the road, neglect your family, finances, et. al. - a disease - addiction (alcoholism).
That's how I came to terms with it. My wife isn't a bad person. She's a sick person. I've done some pretty rotten things trying to deal with her behavior. I'm not a bad person. I'm a sick person - a maniac raging against her alcoholism not realizing that I had as much of a chance of curing that for her as I would if she had cancer. Why else would I have done these things?
Forgiveness is releasing someone from a debt that they can never repay - I REALLY like this and will add it to my arsenal of wisdom. Scooty your moniker is whatever you choose to define you - Pinkchip picking up on its meaning just shows we all have more than one major commonality.
I was angry that I had to do Al-Anon when it was HE that had the drinking problem. Best thing I ever did for myself! Welcome to MIP.
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
Ok, do something physical. When my father died what he had dictated in his will once again singled me out for punishment. This was a pattern all my life and I will never really know why except that I stood up to him when the others would not. I was a good daughter, I had done well in life and , along with my sisters, I nursed him to his final minutes. And he accepted my help for two years of nursing duties while I was also working full time knowing what was in his will. Nasty man!
Anyway, when the will was read, I went home and I ripped up every picture I had of him in my house. I cut him out of other pictures. Was this childish? My yes, but it was also one of the most satisfying things I have ever done in my life- I am not a demonstrative person and usually leave the drama to my siblings. It shocked my husband to the core and he was sure I would regret it.
I have not! Never for one minute.
But, in a weird way, it helped me to resolve my anger at him. It did something for my soul and I could carry on with life. So write her a letter telling her how much you disliked her and why. Don't hold back- let it all out. And then burn the letter. You do not have to forgive her- a HP will do that. All you have to do is find some peace within yourself and maybe the physical act of writing will start that. As for me, with a lot more years under my belt, I can now view my father as a very flawed human being. Still don't love or respect him but the anger and bitterness are gone.
I am so glad you are here. There are so many here that you can talk to anytime you feel you need an 'ear' to express any of these feelings you have.
I am so sorry for what you and your family are going through. I had such anger and resentment towards my ex husband for some things he had done to me that I was 'stuck' and couldn't get on with my life. Some very wise words from my recovering A boyfriend: He said to pray for him every day for 2 weeks. Something for my sake not his. I even kept track of exactly how many days it was. I didn't even know 'what' to pray for. But that is what I prayed. I really didn't want to and it was very hard and emotional. I told God I was praying for him and I needed to etc.... and I needed to heal. And it really eventually helped me.
Maybe that can somehow help you. It will all take a lot of time. I wish you peace in your life.
I want to thank everyone for their wisdom, kindness and support. I've been reading a lot of different threads here and it is encouraging to know I am not alone in my struggle.
She was moved to a different hospital yesterday night and things went downhill. The move caused internal bleeding which was thankfully stopped through surgery. She is stable now but things are worse than they were before.
My Dad and sister are doing...I don't know. They are doing as well as they can be. My Dad is pretty stressed, and I don't know if my sister is in shock or if she just doesn't understand the severity of the situation yet.
It's hard to be angry when things are in crisis. It seems like every time I get a piece of bad news I go into panic and grief mode, and then once things settle down again the anger starts creeping in.
Given the nature of what is going on I feel sort of guilty even discussing my anger, even to a forum full of strangers. Someone is dying and that death is affecting an entire family of people - why should my feelings matter?
Good.
Stay in the moment, feel your feelings and know you are not alone-- My son died from this disease in his early 40s and near the end death seemed like a gift to me.
Continued thoughts and prayers from my part of the world also! I agree with pinkchip - your feelings do matter - know that you are not alone!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Scooty, a few words on letting go as I see it (take what you want - leave the rest):
Part 1:
Describing how to "let go" is difficult because for those who learn how to accomplish it, it boils down to a single action. How do you let go? You simply release your grasp. Of course, actually performing that simple act is immensely difficult.
In the simplest terms, grasping an object in your hand and taking it with you is a battle against gravity. You exert your energy to overcome the natural state of that object. You use your energy to overcome gravity, to overcome inertia and to transfer momentum to that object. You have it in your grasp, and whether you perceive the object as a positive or negative passenger, maintaining your grasp is still a burden. You have to exert energy to hold on.
If you release your grasp, that object will return to its natural state. It will rise, or fall. It will travel on it's course regardless of your direction, and under it's own power.
Part 2:
Forgive the morbid tone of this part. I have seen death. I have witnessed the ultimate "letting go". It is both a physical and metaphysical experience. While it is not pleasant, witnessing it drove home for me what "release" is - what letting go looks like when it involves separating the body and spirit. For me, "letting go" of resentments mimics a death. I have, at times, lied down and worked through progressive relaxation techniques to assist me in letting the resentment die. That may seem extreme to some, but it helps me separate my physical body from that which I am trying to release.
Part 3:
This is the part that I've learned here that makes it all work. Where do the resentments go? I still have the memories of the acts, the anger, the pain and they still feel real.
The most venerable hotrod in her wealth of experience described to me her past resentments as entities that floated above her as she went through life. She can see them, and remember them but they no longer have their sting.
When I absorbed this, it made perfect sense. Those experiences can't simply disappear from our lives. If they did, we would cease to be ourselves, and worse, we would unlearn anything that we learned from them.
However, if you apply the physics model, you can see that by releasing our grasp on the resentments and allowing them to exist in their own natural state, apart from us, they reside on a separate plane and no longer have the ability to cause us pain through contact. We can see them as distant memories. We can examine them in their entirety as complete and finite.
Naturally, on occasion, these resentments will collide with you on your present course and give you a little sting. The trick is not to grab on to them again when they do. Eventually, with practice, you will learn to avoid each other.
I could use a little feedback, and maybe an attitude check.
Ive been staying with my Dad off and on since this all happened.
Im headed back there tonight to stay another day or 2 with him.
Im doing my very best to be a sounding board, and only giving advice or feedback when it is asked of me. Even then, I am trying to be gentle with my words.
My Dad is very angry right now. I also think he is a bit in denial of the situation, as well as idolizing his ex-wife. He says things that make me want to shake him back into reality.
Please remind me that I am not there to correct him. Please remind me that I am going to accomplish nothing by becoming frustrated and angry with him. Please remind me that I cant make him not love her. Please remind me that if he so chooses to go insane trying to clean up her messes that I cant stop him.
Let's see if I can help you - don't know...but will try!!
He's going through his own anger, grief, denial, feelings about the situation. Everyone handles grief, loss and tragedy differently.
Our program helps us to know that we can be of service without judging. We can be of value without scorn, opinions, comments and/or suggestions.
We have the tools of, "Uhm, Uh-Humm, You may be Right, and I hadn't thought of that" to keep from reacting in a manner that would be destructive.
We also have the tools of prayer, slogans, etc. that can help us not react/act in a manner that would make us sad/regret it later.
You can do this, remember that you love and honor your dad - keep doing what you are doing - gentle words and when asked!
Prayers and positive thoughts for you all - may you have peace as best as possible during this difficult time.
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
You are going through some horribly trying times, and what I have read in this post you are doing as well as you can with what you have been given. Bravo!
Asking for help like you just did can be a lifesaver. One of the big problems in many of our lives is that we don't ask for help. Again, Bravo!
Remembering that we are powerless over other people always helps me. It isn't your job to mkae your dad not love your mom, in fact, there is no reason he shouldn't in his eyes apparently. Someday he may come around to understanding, if he has been in Al Anon for quite a while and is still cleaning up an alcoholic's messes, then he apparently just isn't yet ready to see. Everyone has their time for that, and some peoples' times seem never come, just like some alcoholic's sobriety never come.
Say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean. Sorry, it's advice since I've never been even close to your situation. But I always think of that when I am dealing with others in stressful situations.
Keep coming back, you are doing well, you may not be able to see it right now, but you are doing well.
And yes, I love your moniker as well. Maybe there is a Nibbler in your life that you can tell "Remember, scootypuff Jr sucks!!" Maybe there is a scooty puff sr. for you on the other side
Hi You are a great loving daughter who is going to support Dad at a very difficult time Many new to program use Denial of reality as a tool to cope with difficult situations. Understanding this and staying detached helps.
You can offer praying together or that since Dad attends alanon, I would simply suggest that he call an alanon member and read from the daily alanon reader or the Just for Today Bookmark All these tools will help
Scooty,
Forgiveness is not an event, its a process...
Nothing says you have to forgive today and at this moment. You are right in wanting to be there for your Dad and sister. That should
be your first role. You know the saying, "hate the disease, not the person". My x husband died two years ago in the same manner,
he was on the life support for 60 days....When I saw him in that bed with all of his organs failing and his throat intubated on life support, he was awake
in the beginning and I went to see him as he had no family. The tears were streaming down his face and I knew in that moment of truth he had regrets, what purpose would it do if I was filled with anger, even though there was 30 years of pain for me and I'm sure for him. Deep down inside they know .....
The word that comes to mind is compassion...you may not be able to muster forgiveness, but try to go for compassion...and be grateful, for it could have been you or anyone of us.
Wishing you serenity , and the letting go will come..be patient.
Again, thank you for your wisdom, prayers and kind words.
Things got better, and then they got worse. For about 24 hours she was doing much better. They took out her breathing tube and she was lucid. Her kidney and organ function was better.
Things took a turn for the worse early this morning. She is now vomiting/passing blood and is hallucinating. Looks like internal bleeding again. My Dad has been at the hospital all night.
I've been doing my best to support him in whatever way I can. We had a good talk yesterday afternoon that ended with both of us in tears. He is dealing with his own anger right now, too.
Continued prayers for you and your family. Know that we are all here for you!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I can relate to your post and think you've received great support. Poor judgment comes with the territory of the disease. For me, recognizing my choice was part of the process of forgiveness- how did I want to present myself for my own self-love, worth, integrity, and self-esteem without it being about who did what. Simple, but not easy. Not easy, but not impossible. Interestingly, I emerged from the process with gratitude even though the facts of the situation remained the same.
Good news. Her breathing tube is out, her organs are more stable and she is conscious and speaking. She isn't making a whole lot of sense, still - but it's a pretty massive improvement from where she was 3 weeks ago. Unless something goes terribly wrong I think it is safe to say that she isn't going to pass anytime soon.
This is a sort of whole other nightmare now she is going to start realize that her house has been cleaned out and gone through (her family was prepping to sell when it looked like she was going to die) all the secrecy around her addiction has been stripped away, everyone knows that she almost died from her drinking... if/when she is lucid enough to understand exactly what has transpired while she has been flirting with death she is going to be incredibly, viciously angry at my father for allowing it to happen. One of the last things she said to him before she went into a coma was "don't tell anyone".
I'm worried about him. I keep reminding myself that I can't control whatever decisions he makes...
SPJ, so happy to hear that she is holding her own.
Rely on your HP, support your Dad the best you can, but detach from the situation because:
We didnt cause it it is not our fault that the other person drinks, it is their private battle
We cant control it we have no power over the other person's desire to drink
We cant cure it it is an illness that cannot be cured through any known medical remedies
{{HUGS}}
__________________
"Forgiveness doesn't excuse bad behavior, but it
does prevent bad behavior from destroying your heart". ~ unknown
So glad for your news and do the best you can to stay on your side of the street and keep yourself in the here/now. What happens next is only known to the one above -- we certainly don't know what comes next so why worry about what's not yet here?
(((Hugs))) to you - glad you came back and shared. I was wondering and continue my prayers for you all.
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Sorry you're being subjected to all this lunacy Scooty.
Great responses from the gang as usual.
I really struggle with the flu analogy though. I know it's not the intention of people who use it, but it feels like it grossly underplays the disease of alcoholism. People with the flu don't drag children around the house by the hair. I don't think it's reasonable to compare the two 'illnesses'. Alcoholics can act really badly.
I'm very green to Al-anon, as in, approached it days ago, so take this with a grain of salt but here's my two bob:
It's probably a really reasonable response of yours to hate her. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume she's a jerk. Maybe letting yourself be angry with her is fine for now. If you're uncomfy with the feelings of anger or hatred, keep room in yourself for another perspective to bloom by itself. Like you, I LOVE the 'debt they can't repay' quote, and I loved what someone was saying about release being like death, that's powerful stuff. I think if you just honor yourself as you go through all this and be ok with your feelings, they'll move - they aren't stuck in concrete. Watch out for boundaries and unrealistic expectations of yourself. You seem to be expecting yourself to a) keep vigil at the hospital b) support your dad and sis unconditionally c) forgive this woman entirely - all at once. This is stressful, no matter which way you cut it. Go easy, be your own best friend, keep looking at whatever Al-anon literature you've got handy and you'll be right.
You have the intention to forgive and I don't know about you, but I believe in this God-thing, and it'll help. Because you want to forgive, you'll find the way, it'll come in all sorts of series of events and info.
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You are young, my son, and, as the years go by, time will change and even reverse many of your present opinions. Refrain therefore awhile from setting yourself up as a judge of the highest matters. Plato
