Overcome, thank you for sharing your ESH and please do keep coming back to chat. {{HUGS}}

(((( OC )))) You know how much I love & admire you

You know me very well and you know I didn't marry an A. But it wasn't for lack of trying my very best lol. I have a family of A's and I (being the youngest at the time) was well trained in enabling, care taking and the futile attempt to try and fix them. That was (kinda still is) my role in our family dynamic. The thing is, I love every one of them. I know the person who lives behind their disease and for the most part they are wonderful, kind and since getting into Alanon I can see they love me back as much as their disease allows.
I've learned I will never be put 1st in any of things my A's do or not do. If I am lucky I'll come in a distant 3rd. Their addiction (unless in recovery) will always come first, their other needs, they definitely need an enabler, someone to fix what ever mess they've gotten into, someone to cover for them, sometimes someone who will completely take care of them, take responsibility for meeting just basic needs like a roof over their head, food to eat, transportation etc etc. Then if we are lucky we get thrown a bone now & then, just enough to keep us hooked on their line. I've found trying to understand their thought process only serves to make me insane. I can't reason with an unreasonable disease (person).
The more I learned how this disease works, it starts to give me insight on deep down what the A is feeling & what they need so very badly. I've seen it with my son & learned about it after my brother's death.
My son is so very hard trying to find people to care about him, people other than us (his parents) so he projects that people he meets and immediately considers a friend, somewhere in his mind he tells himself he is worthy of Love, Respect & Friendship. But all to often as he puts his faith in these people they show themselves to be predators (in the sense, they can gain something tangible from him. Money, what little property he owns etc). When he sets himself up for this failure of course it's reasonable to drown his sorrows in a drink or drug. He also does this when he begins to succeed at something, he feels unworthy of success and most times messes it up again by turning to drink or drugs. The self esteem of an A is almost non-existent. They put on a brave face and front but inside they feel empty. Now my brother who had 15 years of sobriety until his death, even in recovery held a sort of secret from my Sister & I. We have always been very close and each others confidants. Only the last couple years did I learn my Bro kept a box, going back to the 1970's in this box he kept every letter, card, memento's he had ever received. His wife tells me when he was struggling he would bring the box out and go thru and re-read all those letter's and cards especially the one's he received while serving in Vietnam. He did this to remind himself he was loved. He still needed validation from others that he was worthy of love. When I heard about this, it broke my heart. Yep he was an A, Yep he did a lot of unacceptable things but he loved his family & friends as best he could before he found recovery and was able to give so much more of himself once he found recovery.
I guess my point here is, when told "I let you go" could mean a lot of things. I don't think it's a retraction of the Love he felt IMO. My experience tells me my loved one's yet to find recovery have to let go to a certain degree because they know they can't give to someone what they don't have for themselves yet. You found your recovery, work a great program but that is threatening to an A who has yet to find their recovery. Our behavior changes in a way they feel we have moved on with our lives. In a way that is true, of course it doesn't mean we want them out of our lives (they can't see that), we simply want our boundaries to be respected, to gain some normalcy, sanity or serenity and hold on to that. Also for me, I have been known to if I see any kind of relationship coming to an end (that's only my perception, I can and have been wrong on occasion) put my armor on or walls put up then say or do something that ends the relationship on my terms, thinking it may hurt less (it doesn't). If I think I am going to be terribly hurt I put on my bravest face and never let the person know my true feelings. You know the saying "Hurt people, Hurt people". That may be what you are seeing.
Anyway those were the thoughts that jumped into my head when I read your post. You know I can never make a long story short LOL.

Hope any or some of this made sense, it made sense in my head while writing. But ya know how i ramble
Prayers your way!

xeno, I had thought that might be it too... he is putting on a brave face. As you know I had started a relationship with another man about two months ago after Tim made it clear we weren't ever going to be a "couple" again. Problem was, he did not "let go", he kept calling me and coming over to "see" me. It was a constant struggle for me to turn him away, as I wanted to believe that he still loved me, even though he would not say the words. Once he told me that he had "let me go a long time ago", that is why it cut so deep. I think it is very likely that it is exactly like you say, xeno. Tim texted me all through my trip around the US recently with my new "guy" and I stupidly answered his text messages. I pulled no punches that we were not getting back together, and he seemed to be "ok" with the fact that my new guy and I were together; even to the extent that he told me about a woman that was coming to visit him from Minnesota. I thought we were "letting go" of each other, but then when I got home he came by and "wanted" me again. I guess I'm still in love with him too, so I let him back in my heart; but not before it was too late. I have now made a wreck of my "new" relationship and had to break that off too. I guess I'm just going to have to be "off limits" to any guys for quite a while.

Overcome, he may have loved you and may still love you as best a sick alcoholic can love. That doesn't mean it's healthy or right for you any more. Just my take on hearing what he has to say about "love, letting go, and comfort." Listening to an alcoholic discuss such matters is like listening to a 4 year old giving a speech about quantum physics. I don't know if it does help or how much, but I think in many to most cases with alcoholics, it's not a lack of love, just underdeveloped, immature, and incapable of mature romantic reciprocal love.

(((OC))) - thanks for the honest, heart-felt share. Huge hugs to you as you move forward in your program and recovery.

What I have learned in Al-Anon is no matter how much I love someone, I have to set them free. I need to loosen my grip on them, their values, their choices and their lives or I continue to throw myself into a tornado of he!! situation. For me, this is the worst kind of pain as I've learned in this program that I am not a victim ... I am a volunteer.

My As include my husband and both my sons. I met my husband in AA - we were both sober 6-7 years. We dated for almost 2 years. We then married. We got pregnant fast, and between baby 1 and baby 2, he began to drink again. He lied and hid it for almost 8 years, but I knew. I would ask, confront, inquire, etc. and he just lied. Once I caught him, my experience in the other program told me this outcome was what Alcoholics do. Most do not recover. Most relapse once/twice/many times. I never thought it would happen to me, but it did. I know many happy AA couples, but it wasn't meant to be for us.

So, when I found the 'truth', all I could really do was ask him to not drink and drive my boys and to not drink around them. I knew better than to threaten, scream, etc. only because of my own experiences. I was devastated. I felt like a failure. It set me back a ton emotionally. I began to work on me, and tried to be 'all' for my boys. I lied about why their dad wasn't 'here' and I could go on and on and on with the insane ways I adapted - never asked to do so, just did it because it seemed 'right'.

Well - both my boys opted down the path of substance abuse. All 3 have been exposed to recovery. All 3 have been educated about the disease, the progression, the fatality rate, etc. And I have asked all 3, at separate times, why they choose to stay active vs. recovery. Not a single one can give an answer. This disease is a disease of the mind. It affects logical processing and it affect thinking. With 21 years of living with active As, I just don't even ask any longer - they seriously do not know why they do what they do and they will say ANYTHING to get out of the hotseat....including telling me they do love me today and no they don't tomorrow.

For the A, the disease eats away at the self confidence and self esteem. One can only go so low, and then it's numbness - that's what they feel and that's why they continue to abuse substances - to get and stay numb. Numb is below sad, angry, etc. Numb becomes the preferred state of being.

It sucks when we love someone so deeply that we hurt when they hurt. Unfortunately for us, we tend to deeply love the wrong persons. I've come to determine that my picker is broke and until I spend a ton of quality time loving me and learning more about what I truly want/need, I am going to be content, living one day at a time with my program friends, extended family and others. It is the Al-Anoner in me that makes me love those that need rescuing. It is the Al-Anoner is me that makes me pick and love those who aren't available to me emotionally. It's the Al-Anoner in me that tries to act as if everything is fine in a situation so dysfunctional that any normal person would have bailed long before.

So - if I can grow up enough to love myself enough to be able to walk freely with my head held high when I am in a sticky, unhealthy, dysfunctional relationship - I might try again one day. But, I am in no hurry and have decided that when this relationship ends, I will do as I've been taught - try to live one day at a time, loving myself and working on my happiness. For now, I do as I've been told - surrender and turn it all over. Our lives as Al-Anoner's are unbelievably crazy. Any sanity I can bring to my small piece of the world I welcome each and every day - with the help of the program, the steps, the fellowship, my sponsor and meetings.

My best suggestion for you - stay in the here and the now. Start over - powerless, insanity, surrender. And keep going with the sole purpose of healing you and just you. We are worth it and I believe the HP wants us happy, so I'll use my self-will to try and be god-centered with the goal of happiness at the end of the path/journey.

Hang in there OC - you work a good program - this is a speed bump. It feels worse than that right now because it's fresh. Use your tools and program and you'll come through on the other side.

(((Hugs))) again - we're all just a post away....we are not alone (thank GOD!).

OC I'm impressed at how clearly you are seeing things. I think the hard thing about "settling" is that we don't know we are doing it when we are doing it. So recognizing why you went back, and having a mantra to tell yourself, is great!

A counselor once told me this story, and it has stayed with me because it applies to me a lot: A woman walks down the street and into a hole in the middle of the street. Every day, she walks down that street, falls into that hole, and is surprised. Eventually, she realizes "uh oh, there's that hole up ahead, I can see it coming..." but she still falls in, every time. Eventually, she walks down the street, knows the hole is coming, and coaches herself through so she narrowly avoids falling into the hole. Pretty soon she's decent at spotting the hole, walking up to the hole and maneuvering around it, but sometimes she still slips and falls in. But when will it occur to her to WALK DOWN A DIFFERENT STREET instead?