The material presented
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information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
In the next half hour my AW is going to ask me to take her to pick up our car that she got too drunk to drive home last night.
Preface: She never asks me what I want to do, she only tells me what she's going to do and asks if I want to join her. Last night she informed me that she was going to a party and asked if I wanted to come. I declined, as usual. We haven't been out together in about 8 months except for family gatherings.
I'm doing a moderate job letting it go. I didn't give her the cold shoulder this morning, or act in any way angry, although anger wells up and I keep pushing it back down, reminding myself that she is sick, and trying to not take it personally.
I'm inclined to say - "no, you got it there, you get it home."
I justify this by telling myself that I am choosing not to enable or participate in her disease.
This is partially true. I don't want to do those things, however, there is a vindictive element to it also. "I suffer - you suffer".
I know she won't learn anything from this inconvenience to her and it will only spark anger from her and she will tell everyone that I'm just being a [sic].
I don't want to see the people who's house she left the car at, as I unceremoniously dropped them 8 months ago, and she's told them all kinds of negative things about me, etc. etc. and it will be uncomfortable if I have to interact with them.
I'm not comfortable with choosing to take her, and I'm not comfortable with the fallout of not choosing to take her.
I can't identify a clear motive that takes precedence over any other motive.
DON'T TAKE HER: I don't want to help her in this way. (reasonable) I want her to know I'm angry without acting angry (manipulative and vindictive) If you are going to drink, you better think ahead because I'm not helping you. (controlling, trying to "teach a lesson")
TAKE HER: I want peace in the house and don't want to fight for my serenity (doormat, go along to get along) Detaching with love? (she's sick, I can expect these kinds of things. I'll put a band-aid on her) It's ok that you did this, you can go out without me, get drunk, leave our car somewhere, glad you didn't drive (enabling)
My ex started complaining because I became matter of fact in dealing with him - you made the mess, you should clean it up. But then I stopped living with him during my beginning in recovery so I didn't have to live in the same house with the repercussions of his anger towards me for not doing as he wanted. So I'm no help - I'll listen to see what others have to say.
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
She still hasn't asked me, but she will have to soon.
I'm really stuck on this one. Leaning toward just taking her and not making a big deal out of it because I currently plan to end this relationship.
Unfortunately I don't plan on ending it for another 3 years when we become empty-nesters.
If I "go along to get along" for 3 years, I'll feel like a doormat the whole time, but I have no hope left for her entering recovery, or even beginning to let go of denial, so what does it matter?
I've got 3 years to get healthy. Seems like a long haul.
I can recall this kind of "damned if you do...damned if you don't" scenario. I guess the best suggestion is to stay true to yourself because, like you pointed out, there is damage from the disease no matter what. Do what helps you keep your serenity most, while knowing your motives and keeping your side of the street clean.
Thanks Pink. Interesting. The phrase "stay true to yourself" is particularly helpful. I think I'm struggling with which "self" to be true to, and the "you messed it up, you clean it up" self feels too much like the old, pre-alanon self. So even if I can't work this one out to complete clarity, I think I'll opt for taking her and not saying anything as the best next thing.
I contemplated taking her and very calmly and matter-of-factly saying "ok, from here on out you have to make other arrangements for this" - but why? It's a minor inconvenience for me to take her. I'll just stop long enough for her to get out of the car and I'll drive away. I'll feel used and disrespected, but of course, I AM used and disrespected.
That's my last issue with this. Now I feel inclined to un-emotionally state "I'd like you to know that this makes me feel used and disrespected".
Nope. Not going to say anything damnit. All telling her that will do is give her an opportunity to twist the knife.
approximately 1185 days. I'll cross one off before I get in bed tonight.
Almost there, focus on what you can do to bring joy into your life today. If you look at this like a prison sentence, you will feel hopeless and depressed. If you had to end things sooner, you could and would. You are not being weak. You are being strong and trying to make the best choices taking into account many factors just for today.
When I have "the damned if you do and damned if don't " scenarios, I remove the players (would I do this with anyone else) and make my decision based on my values. Then I say the Serenity prayer that I don't take the reaction personally. I am not responsible for their response.
I want to compliment you on reaching out and thinking the problem through. Probably just typing your first email helped clarify the situation and options.
It will work itself out one way or another and I hope you continue to feel "a LOT" better.
Yes, I use and abuse the GREAT people here often to help me, and you are right, I know if I type it out here it will clarify the issue for me and others can help me decipher it. Glad you're here!
In my situation, I felt I had devoted so much time and energy to doing things to help my A that I could no longer do anything for him. My own resentment had become so toxic that I couldn't risk adding another ounce to it. So towards the end, I was not able to do anything for him. I don't believe I was rude or unkind about it, I was just unable to do kind things for him any longer and I found that when I didn't, I had no reason to resent him or passively aggressively punish him for it later.
I believe in the situation you describe I would have just told him I was unable to drive and he would have to catch a bus or a cab or direct him to perhaps borrow my bicycle. For me saying no was the best way to maintain my serenity.
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Yeah, I feel like if I had a workable excuse I'd use it, but I don't. On THIS one, TODAY, I'm going to go with the flow and be ok with it. Trying to field them one at a time. I feel like I can do it without adding to my resentment or anger by using my tools, so I'm going to. If I didn't feel that way I wouldn't. That's not to say that I will kiss-[sic] in perpetuity and roll-over on every situation, but I've been enjoying the peace around here lately, and for my own serenity today, I'm willing to do this and not attach anything to it.
Plus I'm kind of enjoying her walking around wondering why I'm smiling, not angry, not giving her the cold shoulder, asked her sincerely how the party was (I know the people, so there is gossip I wanted to hear - not proud), and waiting for the right time to ask me if I'll take her because she feels sheepish about it. Instead of revenge being "a dish best served cold", I'm opting for "the best revenge is living well". So I'm getting this little, sneaky by-product jab in by using my alanon tools. I think it'll work for me. This time.
I don't question your choice, it sounds very healthy actually.
I was just imagining me in the same scenario.
Happy Sunday; hope it remains pleasant and serene
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
I know you weren't. And it would be OK if you were! You've got great insight and perspective on things! Just still working through it so I can make sure it's the right thing. Hope you can get some good time to decompress today!
Actually, I see where you're coming from, and my experience has been quite the opposite. I've resisted doing things for her for so long out of anger and resentment that that has become the cornerstone of her justification for treating me like excrement (to which I would reply "which came first? Chicken or the egg!"). I ended up here because I finally recognized that I had become a mean, angry person and I didn't want to be. Want to be a kind, considerate person. I've forgotten how!
-- Edited by almostThere on Sunday 5th of July 2015 02:28:53 PM
Sounds like you've worked it out what is best for you to do - maybe you'll consider stopping by the coffee shop, donut shop, ice cream parlor to pick up a treat for you after you've dropped her off! Rising above the stink sounds good.
__________________
I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
Hi almost there, it certainly does sound as if you have processed this situation using all your Al-Anon tools and Al-Anon, support. I always found that by examining my motives I could clearly see the principle I needed to embrace . I see you did the same. Hope you followed LMHs suggestion about buying yourself a donut or ice cream
Congratulations
For myself, my approach was "I'm not going out of my way to service your alcoholism." Of course when the alcoholic doesn't get her way, she tries the big "Change back! I'm going to make a huge fuss so I don't have to face the consequences of my decisions!" major uproar. They keep trying this until they see it doesn't work. For your A, she doesn't even have to make the uproar - just the worry of it keeps you doing what she wants you to do. Not criticizing, just trying to observe the dynamic. There's always a period of extra challenge when we start to take back our lives and not enable the drinking. Once it's clear that that's how things are going to be, the A's settle down more. (Of course life with an A is chaos no matter what. But no longer extra chaos, if there is such a thing.)
I know you'll be presented with my chances to make decisions, and each of them will be different depending on the circumstances. Take good care of yourself.
I think Mattie was pointing to the processing you used. I followed and assumed it made logical sense for you and your situation.
In my home, anytime I projected and assumed exactly what was going to happen, I made my decisions based on 'that' vs. what truly made sense for me. I know you feel you're in the 'survival for 3 years' mode and you're unwilling/not wanting to rock the boat. I did that too for a long while with my AH and it deeply affected my children and my own sanity.
The program teaches us to make decisions that work best for us and for our happiness/lives. The program teaches us to stop projecting what will happen if/when.... and start living.
I agree in this instance that if another asked, I would help them. So, in your case here, I might have also done that. Where I see growth opportunities is the processing you spent precious time on before she even asked for help.
As I got smarter/stronger in the program, I worked with my sponsor to set boundaries for these 'things' on the front end. Then when asked, I could say, No, I am sorry, I will not help you and continue doing what I was doing. As Mattie points out, there are a few tantrums until the see I mean what I say, then they find other ways. One thing for sure about A(s), they are very resourceful!
I don't know if that helps or not but I do understand her comment. You did work through it well, but all of your work was based on projecting the future events based on past events. The hope is as we grow and work the program, we do things differently and get different/better results.
(((Hugs))) - it's never easy as Mattie says dealing with the chaos that happens in the house with an A. It's about doing what is right for us not doing what is right to avoid more chaos/drama. We have to retrain those in our lives how to treat us.
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
You did work through it well, but all of your work was based on projecting the future events based on past events. The hope is as we grow and work the program, we do things differently and get different/better results. ... ...We have to retrain those in our lives how to treat us.
I'm less interested in re-training her and more interested in re-training myself. My problem has not been being passive, it's been being aggressive. She knows the boundaries that I have fairly well and gives them a wide berth because when I unleash I can be quite terrifying. What I first learned is that the expectations I had (basically responsible adult behavior and being a partner in decision making) were beyond her ability because of her disease.
In re-training MYSELF, and in a situation like this, it's prudent for me to look ahead. I'm not talking about living in the anger and resentment of hypothetical situations instead of the now, I'm talking about THIS was an imminent situation. The car was there. She was here. She was going to ask me. I had a choice to make. Did I want to take a stand on this today?
The projection that out-of-the-blue today, saying "No. I'm no longer going to do that" would spark anger and conflict is highly reasonable if not 99.99% accurate based on nearly 20 years of experience with this person.
For me, someone just learning a new way of handling MYSELF, it was the right thing to do to spend some time inventorying my tools and determining AHEAD OF TIME what I wanted to do. If I were not to do that at this stage of the game, I would be in danger of reverting back to MY old behavior, which could scare all the words off of this board in a single breath. Seriously, you don't want to see it, and neither do I.
So, I projected - and wisely so. And I determined that what I wanted for myself today was serenity. And I thought about what I was willing to do to have it. And I chose to forego this battle today.
If I'm going to set a new boundary, the time to set it had past. I need to set it before she goes out, not the day after when she has a hangover. It would come across as petty, retaliatory and vindictive (which, as I stated, wouldn't have been altogether inaccurate) and would have had the appearance of punishing a child for doing something that they didn't know they weren't supposed to do (she didn't drink and drive - that's good!).
So, "all of your work was based on projecting the future events based on past events." Yes. Thank God. Saved myself a lot of trouble. It's good to be prepared. Glad I projected and thought it through. Took her there. Got the car. Came home. Continued with my serene day. Good job Me! Way to look ahead and learn how to use my tools! I project that next time she goes out, I'll need to decide whether or not I want to set a new boundary, and make sure I do so in the proper manner, and not because of past resentment or unmet expectations. And I project that if I do, she won't ask me to take her. And there will be no conflict.
It's all one big gigantic learning process for all of us. And we can never really make a perfect choice when we are living with someone who wants to undermine every decision we make anyway. Trial and error and always looking at how my action made ME feel afterwards and not at my A's reaction was the method that worked best for me, in the end.
Anyway did you end up doing anything pleasant for yourself?
__________________
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
No, not really, but I saved myself from the anger and resentment I was poised to create for myself by harboring the unrealistic expectation that my AW could go out on a national holiday to a party that consists of 100% A's and manage to responsibly get herself and our car home on the same day! That's a victory for me! Later my kids did make some cupcakes, so that was my treat.
And yeah, that's what I fell back on - how did I want to feel? Did I want to be angry and start an argument by deciding that today all of the sudden I was going to lay down the law on taking her to go get the car? - or did I want to chill. So I had to take her to get the car. Am I surprised? Incensed? If I am, then I'm also stupid and/or crazy!
-- Edited by almostThere on Sunday 5th of July 2015 11:00:37 PM
