I grew up thinking that alcoholics were those guys on "skid row" living in cardboard boxes, big dirty trenchcoats sipping on something inside a brown paper bag. For me, the term functional alcoholic defines anyone that hasn't slipped that far down. Maybe its part denial - he's still functional, goes to work, pays his bills etc. Or maybe its like justifying when someone hits us by saying "at least he doesn't hit the children". There's always someone worse - my ex would always point out other drinkers and say, hey you think I drink a lot, you should see HIM put it away!

I think its a false positive we fool ourselves into accepting, as long as he's functional, things aren't that bad...... ?

Mark17. you will hopefully get to a point where you may still see her as "bad", but get over any effect it has on you. I believe forgiveness is more about you, I also believe one can forgive but only a fool forgets.

Kenny

 

 

 

 

Mark I hope you keep coming back often cause there is so much more to learn about the disease and the people with the disease including myself.  One of the most helpful things I learned in Al-Anon was that I was married to two women...one my wife and the other my alcoholic...my wife had an incurable disease which she was born into and ran within her family...she was born predisposed to alcoholism and drug addict which she would have not chosen openly which I learned because I would experience her sober after a most courageous and humble attempt at sobriety.  Today she is my metaphor for humility.  She truly had a compulsion to drink and use and the allergy to the chemical and usage which came near to ending our lives.  When my wife was taken over by the compulsion to drink and use there was nothing she could do or I could do to stop the mind and mood altering chemicals from altering her thinking, feeling, intentions and behaviors...what resulted as you already know was that she was from the start not even in the same perception of functional.  The alcohol and drugs coursed thru her body...all of her organs and altered her.  There is no such thing as a functional alcoholic. 

One of the tools of my recovery was taught to me as compassion with empathy...the feeling with and felling for the sick alcoholic/addict as I came to understand that she really had little to no choice whether she drank or used.  Booze isn't cool aid or mild or water or root beer.  Booze has a set of parameters within the disease which are very powerful and within the definition of alcoholism which we use to read before every meeting in early recovery the AMA states that because of the compulsion the alcoholic "has lost the ability to decide whether they drink or not".   I know, at first I didn't believe it either until I paid attention more closely to my own alcoholic/addict wife and then to my own drinking behavior...I am a double and the definitions have real meaning for me.  Booze almost took my life away without even involving my alcoholic/addict wife.  I am alcoholic...I have a compulsion of the mind and allergy of the body...one drink is too much and an entire fifth not enough.  Like my wife I was bon predisposed to alcohol addiction.  It ran in my family and still does generationally.  Forget the different definitions of the alcoholic.  The alcoholic has a fatal disease that if not arrested by total abstinence will result in insanity (there now?) and or death.  Alcohol is  a toxic (poison) chemical not a health source.  

Keep with your own recovery so that you can come to understand how it robs you of being functional.    Keep coming back.   In support.   (((hugs)))  

 

 

 

Mark, it took me a long time to believe this is a disease that no human being would choose, it becomes much easier when it rears its ugly head in your children. I understand that term, 'there but for the grace of God go I' we were spared part of it.
The alternative, the idea an alcoholic is evil or bad or mean. Noone is all that, think of the alcoholic mother who loses her children? Is this a choice? Just a bad person? She loves her kids any less than you or me? I recommend gojng to an open aa meeting or listening to the aa speakers on youtube. It opened myeyes and my ears.

Kenny--what do you mean by "any effect it has on you?"  When I think about her now, my blood does not boil... I do not get angry and I do not feel upset.  I would say, matter of factly, that she is a bad person.  I want to avoid bad people and perhaps so should we all (more below on this).  Like sociopaths, they threaten to disturb the social fabric that binds us all together (that may or may not be a stretch).

Jerry--I think you say some great things that are over my head at the present time.  This is one reason I know I need to "keep coming back."  I definitely recognized the Jekyll/Hyde phenomenon in my XAW.  I think it's very interesting to hear you say treat the disease with abstinence.  I might have said treat it with AA meetings.

el-cee--I hear what you're saying and I agree with "do you think she wanted these bad things to happen?"  To me, I best understand that in terms of Jekyll/Hyde.  No, as the woman I loved she wouldn't have wanted it. 

I believe what made her a bad person is her refusal to work hard enough to achieve that recovery.  Why did she not go to more meetings?  Why did she not go to as many meetings as necessary?  Why did she make excuses, manipulate, and allow Hyde to take over?  I believe it's because she was not yet to the point where she really wanted change.  I can't make her change (Debb's DETACH comes to mind here).  If she doesn't want to change then yes, I think she's a bad person.  If she wants to change and is working at it and willing to do whatever it takes then I believe she will succeed and she will recover.

Thanks for sharing, everyone!

Mark

Do you attend alanon meetings Mark? I understand your unwillingness to accept alcoholism as a disease. It's usually due to anger, hurt, resentment, bitterness. I felt this way too. It only hurt me to hold on to this. I've heard it said, it's like drinking poison and expecting the alcoholic to die. Resentment and blame eats away at us and we remain sick. Have you read the definition of alcoholism the disease. It's pretty widely accepted worldwide that it's a disease. It's not about them being bad people. Does that make you the good one? Pretty arrogant viewpoint that was mine too until recently.can you consider you might be wrong? That would be a start.

ugh, this is a really "not nice" , but very important conversation we are all having. I studied genetics in college and I truly believe that alcoholism is genetic. The professionals say "it tends to run in families" and I believe they just have not found the gene or the gene sequences that play a role...... YET. They will.

I know I was very angry with my hubby as he sabotaged the family unit. I grew up in a family and social unit that did not drink alcohol. We simply did not have it in the house and our church prohibited alcohol at all functions, and all social functions were through the church, so no alcohol. When in college we did have many in our church that were my age that had to "try their wings" and I would not date them if they drank. My hubby did not drink when I met him. His family did.... LOTS. He was Irish/German Catholic and they had a lot of booze. I can honestly say I never saw my hubby drunk before we married. And for the first few years he did not drink. Then he got some promotions at work and he drank to get his brain to turn off so he could sleep. I could understand. I really blamed his job for taking him away from me. It was the booze, not the job.

When I understood that it was the booze I was really angry at him. I can put it down. He couldn't. But he didn't want to either. Even when he knew I was unhappy he didn't want to quit. Yet, when he got the DUI he quit for the judge. Why wouldn't he quit for me?

And his personality changed. I can honestly say that if he was that person in 1971, I would have never married him. I refused to date "boys" who drank. They were such little boys and I wanted a man. I have a diary that I wrote when we were dating and in it I wrote, "we can talk for hours about anything". When he was drinking we couldn't talk at all. It was very lonely because I was not willing to argue or cave in to his manipulations. It was the brain changes that made me the most angry. It was the constant lieing and filthy mouth toward me. It was his bad attitude toward the kids, that they were always not good enough and bothering him. It was his attitude toward me that made me feel "used" and abused. I was to stay out of his way until he needed me to make him look good.

He also got cancer in his throat after he was sober in AA for 7 years. That cancer and the treatment did not make him call me a "bitch" every single day the way he did when he was drinking. So cancer and alcoholism is DIFFERENT. He was given 8 weeks to live, he got a trach tube so he couldn't talk, he had to eat through a stomach tube, and he did it all with grace and dignity. He wasn't an alcoholic with grace and dignity. He had chemo and radiation at the same time and his doctors told him they were going to take him as close to death as they could and then pull him back..... and it was not nearly as bad "for me" (I am talking about the affect on the family) as his alcoholism was. He did survive and had 2 more cancers that he also has survived. The prostate cancer really has affected our sex life.

What AlAnon taught me is that his journey through life is his. Mine is mine. I can't do his for him. I have to make mine as good as I can. He is a flawed human being. His brain has been pickled and his cancer has changed too many parts of his body. But he is alive and we are still married. I would like to be happier with him, but it is better than when he was drinking. I know now that a lot of behaviors of mine, especially being too concerned about his feelings, have only served to hurt me. I learned I can walk away and not say anything rather than say something that would be hurtful. I can keep my dignity and let him keep his even when we don't agree. Heck, we even argue about the hand soap we keep at the kitchen sink. He has his and I have mine. I don't have to cave in just because he has a different opinion.

Does he love me? He says he does and I'm not going to look too deeply. Do I love him? I care about him and that is enough. I have been hurt deeply by him. He has never acknowledged any of it and won't talk when I bring it up, so I don't bring it up any more. We live in peace today.

This is a nasty disease that affects us all. The alcoholics have outside scars when they are drinking. The AlAnon have scars that are very deeply hidden. Their outward appearance is anger and sadness. We should not feel ashamed because we are angry. Even Jesus got angry. But anger is not a place that you want to live in. Find a way to get out of it. Find peace that keeps your dignity.

Take care of yourself.

almostThere wrote:

---

"Functional Alcoholic"

Not having the best day, but still better than it used to be because I have al-anon.

Just feel a quick need to vent about this term.

It's a veil.
Rose colored glasses.
A facade.  
A crutch.
A license to steal.  
A license to abuse.  
A finger that points at everyone else.  
A blanket excuse for bad behavior.
A perpetual get out of jail free card (do not pass go, do not collect $200)

How about "Diseased, Self-Centered, Destructive Person with Little Sense of Responsibility, no Respect for Others and Delusional Thought Patterns - with a Job"

-- Edited by almostThere on Thursday 18th of June 2015 09:34:44 AM

---

I love it! I'd like to know too because that is exactly what I am living with and someone who has a very well respected career too! Boy do they hold themselves in high standards and the people at work sure do protect them KNOWING the issue. 

You are right. They are just fooling themselves in thinking they are functioning and they keep on telling us not to worry because they can function just fine and we should get off their backs about the drinking or drugging....... it is called denial and we are supposed to buy into it. Yet we also should be there to take care of them and take care of all the other things in their lives so when they do get questioned they can point to how normal the rest of their lives are..... and we buy into it all.

Our job as alanons is to educate ourselves and know more about the disease so we don't react, but respond to their behaviors. We don't have to live angry or frustrated or upset. We can let them live their lives while we live our own life. There are normal people out there that don't abuse alcohol or people. Our job is to find these people and hang with them...... and to be these people so others can find us.

Wow, didn't know I would spark such a firestorm. I was just frustrated because I hear my A use that term in reference to all our A friends (she is deep in denial and has never used the term alcoholic in reference to herself) and I know it translates in her mind to "not an actual alcoholic" which continues to bolster her denial.

My point is that the professional world could at least use a term like "stage 2 alcoholic" so that an excuse for the behavior is not embedded in the diagnostic term. Anybody know anyone with "functional cancer"?

If the medical community were serious about confronting the disease there would be an aggressive campaign to bury this term.

I can see that lots of us have suffered trauma or abuse during our relationship with an alcoholic. My mind set has changed though. I don't see myself as a victim of abuse. I was part of it too. I enjoyed it on some level the poor me thing, and the martyr thing. It allowed me to hide from life, not take part because I was putting up with so much. I also got to seek sympathy. I also always had choices. I just didnt know it at the time.

I have a totally different view now Ive taken ownership because it stops me fearing it could happen again. It will only happen again if I let it and I dont see myself as a victim of another human being anymore. Looking back at painful events has changed for me too. Im grateful on some level because Im strong now and most likely will never be a victim or see myself this way again. My mind has cleared of all that stuff that made me feel sorry for myself or feel like I had been traumatised. Theres no need to feel pain over and over again unless I choose too and I choose not too.

For me, the minute I see someone else as different from me, bad or evil or powerful then Ive lost touch with reality. We are all human with human failings, none worse or better than the other.

I agree to both of your posts but first we need to get there.

Trauma and abuse are not that easy or straight forward to
Shrug off. I wish it were so simple. I know my xah is sick do
I feel compassion and empathy, yes. Have i forgiven him, yes.
He is a child of God, too. I felt all That on the day of our divorce.
I actually felt bad for him. I have worked very hard on those
Things with Gods help.

Here is the big BUT it is not all that simple to move thru. I still need
To grieve, process my feelings and emotions, face truths, keep my dignity
And Work My way thru the muck. I do get angry and rageful with him.
He hurt me very deeply on so many levels and shows no remorse or
regrets.

I will get there and get back to my normal again without xah in my
Life. I cannot wait for my brain fog to lift and to feel whole again.
I am on emotional overload and it too shall pass with the grace of
God.

I am new to this Al Anon chat room and when reading these posts I am encouraged by the reality of not feeling so isolated, lonely and helpless because there are other people who know what it is like to love and care about an alcoholic. I prefer the term person with the disease of alcoholism - it puts me in the right frame of mind. But it is a mouthful and when in knee jerk reaction land I forget! My son is 32 and has a 20 year history of varying degrees of alcohol and substance abuse. He is now a full blown alcoholic at the stage where hospital stays are becoming more frequent and serious. He lives overseas - with his grandparents -having done the rounds of the family here with the all too familiar result.  Now that his mental and physical health have deteriorated even more he is about to be forced out of their home.  Something that would have been more compassionate much earlier than enabling him to live with no responsibilities either financial or to himself for 3 years. Might as well pour the booze down his throat. (Judgmental tone here I know)  Earlier in his journey I had taken a false grain of comfort that he is a functional alcoholic but I  realized the folly of that - somewhat late. Naturally in these circumstances the family is in crisis mode- especially as it is my former in laws... so the circus of blame crashes through e mails and Skype calls. In full on crisis mode I have found it difficult to be consistent about how I think about alcoholism as a disease and my anger at the situation and the players pushes me to the blame game. That just makes victims and perpetrators march through the corridors of conversation and I have to work hard to shake it off. People talk about my A having a choice... but he doesn't have a choice over the bottle. He says he wants to "control his drinking"- an "alternative to abstinence" but he can't because he has no off switch. I had believed that he could cut down - reduced risk I think is the term, but he can't. I wonder if he really wants to stop. Alcoholism is a disease and although I understand that - what do I do with the anger? There's a long, long list of hurt - stealing, cheating, lying and manipulation that are symptomatic of alcoholism. At what point does an A have a choice? Is there a tiny chink of choice in between the compulsion to drink and the desire not to?  I doubt it. Saying so denies the very nature of this disease. It is a compulsion and a force that controls and sickens. And I have to learn to let go of my anxiety ... I am not in a part of my journey that it is feasible. What further bad news awaits?

I agree you got to go through it to get to the other side... Through the emotions, through the learning curve and empower yourself with choices. I had to ask a lot of questions to even learn what the choices were because my brain chemistry had changed. Every story is similar yet different because we all humans with different values, needs and emotions. I was truly blessed to find a community where those differences are respected and my zest for life returned ð

Almostthere - while I may like the thought of stages to identify someone's degree of alcoholism, it is my understanding that it is each individual's right to determine whether they are an alcoholic or not. My responsibility is to protect my serenity from the ravages of alcoholism. It is my job to identify alcoholic behavior, anti-social behavior, needy dependent behavior or any undesired behavior and decide whether or not I want the person exhibiting that behavior in my life and take the necessary steps to guard myself. It's a concept that was easy to grasp - that its not up to me to name them as alcoholic, and it made it easier to "get" that it IS up to me to protect myself from the behavior without having to make any judgments.

Thank you this really helps me and my family on this road.

Likemyheart - I agree, its not my place either, yet this term exists in the vernacular and in professional circles and helps people with alcoholism postpone or avoid getting help or facing the serious nature of their disease. It's wrong and there should be a campaign addressing it.

The term functioning alcoholic is the biggest oxymoron going .. alcoholism is a progressive disease that if not dealt with by the A will cause institutionalization, jail or death.

I don't know off the top of my head if this is in the big blue book or not .. it's the opening that is used at the AA meetings. I love it and close my eyes when I hear it to really think about what that could be like .. I lived in a different kind of denial in terms of my X was chopping wood in the house at 3AM and the way I explained it to a girlfriend he might as well gotten up and had a cup of coffee at that hour .. I laugh every time I think how normal I made it sound that someone was chopping wood in the house.

Functioning alcoholic is a different way to deny there is a true issue going on .. Maryjane said it best when she said that her husband has his journey and she has her own. That's what a relationship should be .. together and separate .. one and one is two .. I think there is a misconception regarding relationships that one and one equals one and that is where codependency runs amuck.

Hugs S :)

Almost there,
The problem with the PSA's is that someone in a position of leadership has to want it. Remember you are dealing with people who know alcoholism and perhaps are themselves alcoholic or know family members who are alcoholic and drink to the detriment of themselves and others. Most families now have booze and/or drug addiction in their families. What most people don't want to admit is the mental affects on the addicted person that is just like mental illness, and we all know the stigma about that!

The strength of us AlAnon is that we go to meetings to not let anyone silence our truth! We have been silenced in the past. So it really doesn't matter what others say to us. We know the truth and it can't be silenced by people who can yell louder than we can. The AA Big Book is not something I read. It doesn't apply to me. What people in rehabs say, unless it is about AlAnon, doesn't apply to me. If someone tells me that I can't point to someone and say "they are alcoholic" is the same blah, blah, blah that I hear when someone says I can't say "she/he may be dangerous to me," or "my gut feeling is bad about that person". I see what I see and it is my truth. If they don't like my truth they have the right and responsibility for themselves personally to not listen, but not to tell me I may not have it. Their denial is not my denial.

I guess my point is, yes I am frustrated with alcoholism and the professionals that know alcoholism to not "cure" alcoholism. I am frustrated by AlAnons and recovering alcoholics who point the finger at me when I express frustration and sorrow and regret. I have been injured. It is now my responsibility to know how to not get injured again. It makes me mad I listened to my marriage vows that very clearly stated that "two shall become one" and I took it literally. And my alcoholic used it to manipulate me..... actually I used it against myself and then blamed myself..... and the alcoholic got away with that too. I didn't blame him (I do now) for making "the one that we became" very disfunctional. And then I find some still point the finger at me when I see the truth of what happened and I have the audacity to say it.

Serenity says it best..... "there is a misconception regarding relationships that one and one equals one and that is where codependency runs amuck."

AAAARRRRRRGGGGGG. If I think about it all I will go crazy. Instead, I will go with, he has his life to lead. I have mine. If we occasionally intersect, that is great. I will not throw myself on the funeral pyre like they do in some cultures. I will not blame myself for anything but what I am personally responsible for. I will also not allow anyone to throw blame my way even if they can yell a lot louder than me.

Functional alcoholic is an oxymoron. (Think of jumbo shrimp).

Take care of yourself.