The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
So I started a thread yesterday about seizures and asking if people had experienced that kind of thing with their alcoholics. I can honestly say that I am not interested in these ideas as a way of staying fixated on my ex (thanks, pinkchip, you are always very wise and discerning!). I am in academia as an anthropologist, though, and I really find that seeking knowledge about human behavior is part of my nature. I have been really interested in looking at the types of people I have been attracted to and, over time, continue to contemplate what kinds of things I need to watch out for in the future. I think this will be an important part of my healing. Anyway, I have been reading things like "there is a high instance of co-morbidity (things that are present at the same time) of alcoholism and brain damage" or "There is a high instance of co-morbidity of alcoholism and Borderline Personality Disorder" and, of course "Alcoholism and depression.
When I look back, it seems like I have been particularly predisposed to getting in over my head with those who have Borderline Personality Disorder, while, up until this last relationship, I have avoided being with alcoholics (although there is a lot of commonality, they say, and I think my ex had both).
So I am wondering if other people have experienced other "diagnoses" adding layers of complication to their alcoholic relationships -- which ones? Did it help or make things murkier? I suppose this is an extension of my previous topic post, but my interest has evolved as I have figured more things out about myself. Thanks everyone! I can't tell you how much better I feel now than I did just weeks ago. I am still grieving -- it comes in waves but not as devastating. I am learning so much about my patterns, the impact of generational alcoholism on how I have acted and what I have believed and took for granted.
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Peace comes from within. Do not seek it from without. Buddha
I have two cousins who are both diagnosed bi-polar and they are both alcoholics. One has stopped taking prescribed medications, but still medicates and the other has gotten sober but still takes prescribed medications. I can say both appear reasonably functional at this time.
Both of my A sons had diagnoses of mood disorder (bi-poloar or unknown in younger than 18), depression and ADHD. One is sober and taking no medication at all and the other is self-medicating and taking anti-depressants only.
My observations - addiction presents itself as other illnesses esp. if the addiction is not fully disclosed. Mental health patients often try to self-medicate to feel better or feel nothing. The two are often intertwined and I've never been able to 'see' what came first - the addiction or the MH issues.
Not sure if this helps but my experience. Many recovering folks I know also have a mental health diagnosis....I don't know if it happens in reverse or not as I don't hang out with known mental health patients.
Best to you spooky as you explore this.....
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
My wife suffers from depression and a panic disorder. recently, agoraphobia as well. Self-medication may well have been how she started down the path of alcoholism, and it certainly is her most common justification for alcohol use. However, the panic disorder has been present since early childhood. (interestingly enough, she also remembers her first sips of beer as a toddler.) She often cannot eat if she hasn't had a drink because of the panic. (or, she claims that this is true. It could be a panic about NOT consuming alcohol as well. I am not trying to figure it out anymore.)
I have been thinking today/this week about my choices in partners/girlfriends as well. After I lost my first partner (who, despite being terrible at communicating her feelings, was otherwise a wonderful, healthy partner to have), I was single for a very long time. I was involved with a woman who suffered from depression and hadn't addressed childhood trama. (I don't say "dated" because the relationship was so messed up, I never knew what was going on. We were friends, she didn't want to "date", then she was upset with me for not being the partner she needed. I am still baffled by that entire relationship, and count my blessings to be not involved in .... whatever that was... anymore!) And then, I became involved with my wife, with her various issues.
I have certainly been seeing a pattern with the selection of less than stable and healthy people to get involved with. I think I didn't listen to my gut in both cases, and figured if they were so dedicated in pursuing a relationship with me, I may as well give it a try. Probably time for me to sit down, figure out what I want and do not want, and move forward from there.
One other interesting fact for bilinguals out there: My first (relatively healthy) relationship used German as the language of communication, my subsequent (unhealthy) relationships use/d English. There is a lesson in identity in there for me, as well. I will keep thinking about that.
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Skorpi
If you are depressed, you are living in the past. If you are anxious, you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present. - Lao Tzu
IMHO for the majority of cases, addiction springs from underlying mental illness, not the other way around. People with diagnosed, or un-diagnosed mental illness will seek ways to numb their pain, quiet the voices, alleviate anxiety, stop intrusive thoughts, combat PTSD and ADHD, or in some way alter their state of being. I believe this is mostly true for the vast majority of illicit substances.
Now, that being said, with alcohol being the accepted drug in our society, I can see how a good number of otherwise healthy people could fall to peer pressure in high school, or as a rite-of-passage start drinking and trigger a predisposition to addiction to alcohol and then develop any of the above symptoms, starting the vicious cycle. I have ADHD, and have had anxiety issues, self-esteem issues, some PTSD, and I drank in high school and college, but once I got older and married, I had no problem leaving it behind. I simply do not have the gene, or I would be addicted to it. I don't process it as well as others and I won't be the still-standing drunk at the party, I will have passed out long before that and gotten sick. Thank God! As an adult I only drank in social situations and it would have never even occurred to me to have alcohol in the house just in case I felt like a drink. There but for the grace of God...
Spooky, I do not want to appear unsupportive or uncaring of your honest inquiries but since they are about the mental and physical experiences of the alcoholic, I believe that you would be better served by asking these questions on the AA board.
By living with the disease of alcoholism, I made myself invisible, my needs, my feelings, my health and focused completely on, the health and well-being of the alcoholic.
Entering Al-Anon, I was encouraged to keep the focus on myself, share about who I was and what I thought and felt. It was so foreign to me and extremely difficult in the beginning but by practicing at meetings and on this board, I did learn how to speak about myself and what I liked and disliked
Taking the focus off ourselves and placing it on the alcoholic is destructive to our own recovery.
Thanks, Hotrod. Maybe I communicated poorly -- I was trying to explore the patterns in people I was attracted to because of my being in an alcoholic family -- the people I am drawn to seemed to at first not be alcoholics, but looking back, very much like them -- then I finally found an alcoholic and fell in love. So I was exploring that, not as much as what the experience is for the other people. I appreciate the feedback, though -- obviously if you still feel this way after my explanation then we could sure go from there!
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Peace comes from within. Do not seek it from without. Buddha
Thank you all who replied. It was helpful. It seems these things are often intertwined and just because I hadn't been with an actual alcoholic before I was bound to "find one." I am learning a lot about myself in this process. It certainly isn't at all as simple as I hoped or tried to make it be when I started. I feel blessed to have you all for this feedback -- so many seeming differences leading back to so many similarities.
Thanks!
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Peace comes from within. Do not seek it from without. Buddha
I understand Spooky There are no formal rules for working the program.
.
I know that program gave me the 4th through 10th Step that helped me to understand why I did what I did, said what I said and believed what I did.
It was suggested that I go inward, examine my motives, my false beliefs and painful experiences-list them- own them honestly to myself and another,- see how destructive they were to me and finally be willing to let them go. It is all a process.
One of the reasons that alanon does no believe in giving advise (except for suggesting program tools) is because it is extremely beneficial to uncover our truth from within, ourselves when we are prepared to hear it and change
Comorbidity is super common. Not just in AA, but in all 12 step programs. We don't go to meetings because we are all well. Also, Spooky, look at the 12 steps and the term "Character Defects." Borderline Personality is a Characterological / Personality Disorder. So....common disorders for Alcoholics who have giant egos, combined with inferiority complexes - Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder, PTSD, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Bipolar, and Antisocial Personality Disorder. Not to say all alcoholics have these because they don't. The other thing to consider is that the relationship between alcoholism and mental health problems is bidirectional. This means that having mental health problems causes folks to self medicate with drinking, and then drinking causes them to develop mental health problems or makes existing ones worse.
Similarly, being an Alanoner - we are exposed to trauma and our own brand on challenges that would make use prone to depression, PTSD, anxiety...
What I can say is that if someone really works the 12 steps in either program...I mean if they REALLY work it, they can be happy joyous and free regardless of these diagnoses.
As far as why we may be attracted to alcoholics or unstable people: They are needy can clingy. It feels good to be needed. They often mask their neediness at first with putting you up on a pedestal and using you as their new drug. That is very exciting and it feels good to be that "important" to another person. It has it's own intoxicating effect for us. Alcoholics/broken people move fast in relationships and they will say such seemingly romantic things, but really they are just in the clouds and they are needy/clingy things. For me, I always wanted to be in a relationship. I had bad codependency problems. That attracted other people who "needed" relationships rather than "wanted" wanted them. Hence, I wound up with screwed up people like myself.
Perfect, pinkchip. Really summarizes so well the overarching answer I was looking for. You hit every area I had questions about and put it in a way that really tied it all together for me. Now I can move on feeling like I have a good general understanding and that's what I was looking for!
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Peace comes from within. Do not seek it from without. Buddha
