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I'm just wondering if this kind of thinking is damaging or fair. Everytime an "episode" happens, I think "okay, this time he really gets how bad this is" or "this time, now that he knows the kids noticed, he will change" or "since he slept with her and that is devastating to him, THIS is rock bottom".
I keep dusting myself off, placing my hope hat squarely back on my head and soldiering on with a smile under the theory that if I lose hope, what is left? And yet my disappointment (which appears inevitable) is so painful.
I'm just wondering, am I foolish? I am learning to accept that I am powerless (baby steps), so why do I hope so much? Recognizing that I'm powerless....does that mean there is nothing I can do to help him see?
The veterans out there may be shaking your heads at me so forgive this newbie, I'm just trying to make heads or tails of this now that I've found you all---I've never had anyone who understands what I'm going through, most people just tell me I'm crazy for sticking around or that he is just a bad person. Thanks for reading!
Hoping they get sober for them is good. Forever hoping they will get sober for you will keep you stuck. When you think about hope, how much do you believe you can be ok with or without him? What about hope that your HP will carry you through whatever and not have you hope tied to specific outcomes you cannot control? You are lumping "hope" in this big glob of giant codependence. Stop "hoping" he may get sober just for you. Dont stop hoping for strength, courage, your ability to cope no matter what, hope to enjoy all the millions of other aspects of life not having to do with him and his drinking. Placing your hope on you, your HP, and other healthier relationships and people will help you not feel that your whole world depends on him getting sober.
that is very helpful pinkchip...I hadn't thought of it in that way before. How much do I believe I can be ok with or without him, I don't know...I think it's more about how I can raise my children with the least damage from all of this, with or without him and figuring out which is worse: sticking around with the risk of drunk dad showing up at any point or leaving and risking the impact of that damage from the absence of father who they think hung the moon. Neither is palatable.
butterfly, I can certainly identify with soldiering on and hoping against hope that this time it will be different. Working the program, accepting that alcoholism is a chronic, progressive, fatal disease over which I was powerless took time for me to process into my soul.
I could say the words but deep down I honestly thought that I could make a difference. Over and over again the disease reinforced the fact that I needed to keep the focus on myself, learn how to live life on life's terms, trust that HP was in control and would give me all that I needed to have a successful life. Acceptance of alcoholism as a disease finally did sink in, and I understood how devastating this illness truly was
Al-Anon gave me hope. Hope that I could learn to use new and different tools in order to live my life. That with the help of program I could find the courage, serenity and wisdom to live and take care of my children in a healthy fashion.
Just to say that children know more than we often give them credit for. Oftentimes they think the alcoholic "hung the moon" because they are already hooked into the cycle of noticing that he's not always attentive to them, hoping that if they are good enough he will give them some attention or won't drink, trying to get his attention, being focused on him and what he's doing and pleasing him ... the first practice of co-dependence. I think children in non-alcoholic families typically don't think their parents hung the moon. They love them and respect them but are also comfortably focused on their own lives and not on their parents' lives. So the fact that they venerate him as they do may not be a sign that they have a healthy relationship that needs to continue in this form...
@butterfly88 -- I think I know what you mean. I am going through similar feelings, myself. While pinkchip and hotrod can offer you some healthy advice and a different perspective, I can tell ya, I know how it feels and empathize with you.
I can also share with you what I am learning so far.
There IS a difference between hope and expectation. There is a really fine line between the two, however, and sometimes expectation presents itself under the illusion of "hope". Thinking it will be different each time, is not hope -- it's expecting a change, when history has showed you differently.
For me, recently, I felt like I just needed to let go of that which I thought was "hope" because all it has done is caused me more anger, resentment, stress, fear, etc. Does it hurt when my husband is preoccupied with the thought of drinking (or when he is actively drinking)? Yes, of course -- but when I don't expect any differently, I am still able to carry on with my day. So far, I personally haven't been able to practice this way of thinking/approaching as well as I'd like to, but it will take time and practice. Essentially, just like any other thing that requires reworking the way you look at things -- you have to re-frame your mind and keep practicing until it becomes instilled. (Scientifically speaking -- you can actually create new neuro-pathways every time you re-work your thinking this way, but it takes time and consistent effort)
Just like in the twelve steps -- you have to accept that you are powerless. It's hard. And, I find myself constantly attempting to grasp onto something that feels like control -- which always just proves to hurt me more in the long run.
You can only control YOU.
You can always hope that he will heal. But always know the difference between home and expectation. He cannot and will not change unless REALLY wants to... and that has to come from within himself. Even if he has tried to or would try to change for you -- it will not be a success if it is not for himself.
I definitely feel for you as far as people telling you that you're crazy for sticking around or that he's a bad person. And, honestly, do you blame anyone for thinking that way? I know when I'm the outsider of a situation, it's always easier for me to say I would do this and that if I were in the other person's shoes...but really I have no way of knowing WHAT I would do, and it's probably not accurate. When someone is emotionally detached from the situation like an outsider is -- it's easy to say those things -- they don't love your husband like you do, so they don't understand why it's difficult for you to "just leave" or to write him off as a bad person.
You have created memories and a life with him...obviously you are emotionally tied to the situation.
And, don't you think that perhaps you seek support/opinions from others to hear the rational/logical side of things sometimes? I know sometimes I need to hear that my husband is a jerk or that I'm crazy for sticking around, because if I don't remind myself of the true nature of the situation, I will easily end up being a doormat due TO the fact that I love him. Maybe a lot of people around you DON'T understand... but I would bet that most of them say what they say out of concern for you, and with the intention of giving you a dose of reality.
A little off topic, but not really... I don't have kids, but one of my biggest dilemmas is my resistance to the idea of divorce. I have threatened it -- to my husband and in my own head -- but I know that as of right now, I very much am desperately holding onto the vows I made "for better or for worse, in sickness and in health". I understand that probably 99.9% of people who get married don't ever WANT to get divorced... but, I know that for me, personally, I'm having a difficult time measuring what situations would actually qualify divorce as a real option. I mean, when I hear couples working through addictions, infidelity, etc. --because it DOES happen (in fact, it happened with my aunt and uncle and HIS alcoholism/drug addiction) it makes me think that, a "successful" marriage will stick it out through these things... YET, I also am rationally aware of the fact that it's necessary for me to watch out for my OWN well-being.
With that said... it's different for everyone, and no one can really tell you what your boundaries should be, or when it's appropriate to call it quits or not. That's only something you can figure out for yourself. Anyway, I was just trying to relate to you, because I could feel for your original post a lot.. so hopefully what I all said didn't come across as hijacking your topic or anything. Just want you to know that there are people out there, like myself, going through similar feelings trying to find their way through the mess and attempt to make sense out of nonsense...
Just to say that children know more than we often give them credit for. Oftentimes they think the alcoholic "hung the moon" because they are already hooked into the cycle of noticing that he's not always attentive to them, hoping that if they are good enough he will give them some attention or won't drink, trying to get his attention, being focused on him and what he's doing and pleasing him ... the first practice of co-dependence. I think children in non-alcoholic families typically don't think their parents hung the moon. They love them and respect them but are also comfortably focused on their own lives and not on their parents' lives. So the fact that they venerate him as they do may not be a sign that they have a healthy relationship that needs to continue in this form...
Take good care of yourself.
This is interesting, because my alcoholic mother was someone who, when I was younger "thought hung the moon." Never thought of it this way. Great observation and insight.
I also rode on the roller coaster you describe for years. Longer than I care to admit. Every time I thought he hit his bottom I was only left to be shocked again later. I would convince myself it wasn't so bad or that I could handle it but I was losing myself.
I had to ask him to leave and the marriage has ended. It still hurts and I still can be brought back to a memory that fills me with sadness and loss in a heartbeat. But I remind myself of all I did to try to make it work and I know I did the best I could. I kept waiting for a change and it just didn't happen in a way that I felt safe/secure. It was so painful--Al-Anon saved me and gave me the tools to move forward, even if it was slow! I focused on my needs and very careful thought about what I could live with.
But I was going crazy and I realized that in order to be the best parent *I* could be, that I needed to pull myself up and focus on my own sanity and peace. Nobody could tell me when/what to do and I waited and prayed for literally YEARS before I found the courage to leave him. You are feeling/doing just what you need to at this time. Having kids with an A has got to be one of the hardest things ever. Be gentle on yourself.
Great post and I can relate. Early in al-anon I read a book "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews and I found it very enlightening! I am glad you found us here at MIP, al-anon face to face meetings and my sponsor along with coming here helped me to find my serenity. Sending you love and support on your journey!
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
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" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
Like Betty, I thought that the words I said would make a difference. I thought I would just have the one right thing to say that would get through and that he would be done drinking, done late night binging, done drunk driving, etc......none of it mattered and when he did decide to get help at certain points during our struggles, it was always just to be a box checker. He would just go to counseling because I said he should and then he'd not change one thing and say, "See, I went to counseling, now will you sleep with me or nor will you do this or that or whatever?" It was all out of control and manipulation so that he could have his cake and eat it too. There was never a genuine desire for him to get healthy or to get sober.
My sponsor and program have helped me immensely through all of this. Sending you hugs and love today!
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
A lot of great wisdom here, as always! I think it's a catch 22 for those of use who have As in our life: their disease does the talking and pre program I did the listening. I rode roller coaster in a marriage with A for 22 years. Since the divorce he has stopped drinking for different amounts of time, but has not gotten sober. I started to pay attention to action instead of words, and as difficult as it sometimes is (I am sick enough that I still wonder--is he drinking? is he not??) it has helped me in my own recovery not to get sucked into words (which I have heard before).
Cathy that is a comfort to see because I have been there, too.
Butterfly, no matter how long I am with AlAnon I will be strengthened by our common experiences and the wisdom of AlAnon. Welcome.
You have already had great advice, thank you for posting this topic.
Of course I hoped that my husband would stop drinking and behaving like a prat. But eventually I realised that I was wasting my days away waiting for it to happen - I think he had been drinking for about ten years by that point so I have to admit that I took my time in changing me!!
Anyway, I knuckled down and started putting my energy into my own life. I like the phrase is Alanon 'regardless of whether they drink or not.' So I have, to the best of my ability, focused on my own wellbeing and set out to have a good a good time by myself, enjoying time with my other close friends and relations. My husband was drinking at the time that I started taking better care of myself and after six months or so I think that he noticed what a good time I was having. He was having a ghastly time of it with lots going wrong in his life and generally not coping very well at the time - but I just kept on enjoying my life and left him to sort out his own scrapes. I treated him like an adult, free to make up his own mind. One day, after he had been exceptionally rude to someone who didn't deserve it, he poured away what was left of his drink and he has now been sober for twenty months. It is still not easy, in fact I'm finding it rather strange and I do have a lot of residual anger to deal with, darn it! But things are better. I had hope, but I did not pin it on my husband and I stopped waiting around.
so forgive this newbie, I'm just trying to make heads or tails of this now that I've found you all---I've never had anyone who understands what I'm going through, most people just tell me I'm crazy for sticking around or that he is just a bad person. Thanks for reading!