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hi everyone, new here. I guess, I don't really know what else to do at this point.
So, for starters when I met my husband, he drank heavily -- but I didn't pay much mind to it because he was in his early 20's, and I had grown up with an alcoholic mother and brother-- basically, this was normal to me. I also hadn't fully accepted that my brother and mom had a drinking issue either yet at this point -- they (obviously) made a lot of excuses for their drinking, which I bought into.
Anyway, it wasn't too long into our relationship that I began to realize my husband's drinking might be an issue... he was getting black out drunk often and throwing up several times a week from drinking. He would fill up soda pop bottles with mixed drinks and take them in the car with him, and he'd pass out in the passenger seat on the way home from whatever we were doing on a regular basis and I'd be left frustrated, trying to wake him up.
I started trying to talk to him about and he always responded to it with anger. I didn't want to call him an alcoholic, because who was I to determine that? I kept trying to make excuses for it. But it got worse.
He started getting really angry when he'd drink, call me names and just relentlessly verbally lash out on me. At the same time, he was dishonest with me about other women, and that was another problem in itself. He would get so nasty and out of hand that I would leave and go to my dad's house. If he called me (which he usually did), and I didn't pick up, I was yelled at for not picking up his calls and being the source of the problem because I wouldn't talk to him. If I did pick up, usually he would just brag to me about how much more he drank after I left.
The breaking point was when I caught him lying to me about a girl and started packing up my things; he was belligerent drunk at the time, of course, and started breaking my things. That was it, I told him and myself, but the next day he came around, saying he knew he had to stop drinking...and basically made me all these promises. And, I, of course, fell for it. I only agreed to give him another chance if we stayed with family for awhile where he would have support. So we lived with my dad. He didn't drink for three months, but he stopped going to counseling just a couple weeks after he made all these promises. He wanted to get our own place again. I allowed myself to trust him again, we got our own house, and he asked me to marry him. Being the stupid, hopeless romantic that I am, not only did I say yes, but I was so excited about it we got married not even a year later.
He began drinking again well before we got married, but I thought, this time was different -- maybe he had it "under control".
It got worse and worse again, and the lashing out and name calling began happening again. Lying to me about women started happening again. His verbal abuse got worse the more he drank, and he began to lie about and hide his drinking more. I tried to talk to him about it over and over and how hurt I was that he went back on his promises. But according to him, I was the one with the problem, not him. It was basically "all in my head"
Arguments progressed -- things were broken, and I began to lash back as well. One night when he was drunk and started following me around the house calling me names, I made sure not to engage or lash back, but it didn't stop it. The next day I packed up my things and went to stay with my dad.
Again, my husband promised not to drink, to get counseling, etc. This was not my idea --- it was his -- and I told him how unsure I was of putting any faith and trust into his promises after he broke it the first time. He said he wouldn't do it again. I asked him over and over, if he intended on cutting alcohol out permanently and he said that was his plan. Two months later, he hasn't drank, is still in counseling, but is now resenting ME for not "being able to have a beer with his family". I told him, if he wants to drink again, that's his choice, but that I will not be around to find out what happens next all over again -- that I will remove myself from the situation if he chooses to drink again. Not only does he say that he can't "believe how easy it would be for me to just throw in the towel" but, he also swears up and down that he does not have a drinking problem, and he's stuck on that. It has become a regular thing for him to bring up -- that he doesn't have a drinking issue despite what I think -- and that if he DID have a problem it wouldn't have been so easy for him to just stop. He also justifies that because we have these small little bottles of wine in the fridge for cooking that he hasn't tried to drink -- is more proof that he does not have an issue. I tried telling him that regardless of whether or not he thinks he's dependent on it, I can't and will no longer put myself in harms way because of how he BEHAVES when he drinks. I also tried explaining to him how again, he is going back on promises, and how my trust in him is basically non-existent at this point in time as a result of his consistent empty promises, lies, and omissions of truth. But -- that too, is MY fault according to him because I am not "trying to trust him".
He has also, now, used my family history as a way of justifying his issue. He tells me that I am just "sensitive" to it and don't like it when ANYONE drinks, because of my mom and brother -- and that's why we have issues when he drinks. I'm not buying it-- I know that the experiences I have had with him are not just in my head. Despite standing my ground, and not buying into the BS anymore, I don't feel any better. I feel like I'm just going to be blamed every single day, and whether or not I buy into it, doesn't matter --- it still makes me feel like crap.
He tries telling me that his counselor also doesn't think he has a drinking problem (his counselor is NOT a substance/alcohol abuse counselor) and that also his mom thinks I am in the wrong here -- his mom lives in a different state and we only see her twice a year. I don't talk to her on the phone or anything outside of that, so she has no way of knowing what is actually going on. I know he says it just to get me to back down, but it bothers me knowing that he's painting this picture to his family that I'm the one with the problem.
he says that if things don't get better, we will probably just get divorced. Maybe that would be best...but, that's not what I want, either.
I think you just described everything your husband thinks says and does....and that's absolutely understandable and normal because from the sounds of things he has done what addicts do and expertly blocked you at every turn so that there is nothing, NOTHING you can do (within the relationship) except for take the blame and keep him the absolute centre of your universe. It is always your fault and there is nothing you can do that will change the way he behaves or make your relationship kind or reciprocal. It is all about him, all the time, no matter what, except it is your fault. That's what I am reading from your words and it's very,very familiar to me.
Folks in al-anon will encourage you to shift your focus onto YOU. What do you want, what do you need, what pain inside are you using this relationship to medicate or avoid, what is going on inside YOU? How can YOU make YOUR EXISTENCE serene and happy? Even if he continues to drink and mistreat you and behave badly, which he will do until HE decides he wants to stop and not a moment before.
That's really, really hard to get a handle on to start with but what happened for me is, after a while, after I decided to forget about what HE was doing and just do this program come hell or high water. I focused on ME and after a few months, well it's amazing but I stopped feeling trapped and stitched up and started being able to make clear headed choices (even if he threw a tantrum about them) with confidence and calm. He had no choice but to stop the crazy emotional manipulation because it just didn't work on me anymore. And it really doesn't, what you see when you work through the al-anon program can't be unseen.
He (My A) hasn't gotten better, in fact he still thinks we have now separated because of my problems..not because of his drinking or his abuse...that's OK. Al-anon isn't about fixing or curing a drunk, we don't have the power to do that. Its about healing you so that you can experience happiness, calm, and make decisions that are right for you without being twisted and tortured by what someone else says and does and that includes your husband, his mother, his counsellor and the postman. They do not have your best interests at heart. Someone has to show up for you...it might as well be you, yeah?
__________________
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
You just described the awful mess and the dilemma of an alcoholic marriage PERFECTLY. I know this is not an assignment that you wanted or ever hoped to get an A+ on, but I really have to tell you that, as I was reading your share, I was nodding repeatedly and was pretty much like "Yep...Yep...I bet next it will be....Oh wait, sure enough...there it is...Yep....That's how it is....Yep....That sure is alcoholism....sounds familiar..."
So...my feedback is only that I can tell that this disease has kicked both your butts all over the place and that is basically what the disease does. Your intuitions and insights are spot on, but healing is needed for you whether or not he admits to his alcoholism or not. You are in the right spot and I think alanon might just save your life.
I think you just described everything your husband thinks says and does....and that's absolutely understandable and normal because from the sounds of things he has done what addicts do and expertly blocked you at every turn so that there is nothing, NOTHING you can do (within the relationship) except for take the blame and keep him the absolute centre of your universe. It is always your fault and there is nothing you can do that will change the way he behaves or make your relationship kind or reciprocal. It is all about him, all the time, no matter what, except it is your fault. That's what I am reading from your words and it's very,very familiar to me.
Folks in al-anon will encourage you to shift your focus onto YOU. What do you want, what do you need, what pain inside are you using this relationship to medicate or avoid, what is going on inside YOU? How can YOU make YOUR EXISTENCE serene and happy? Even if he continues to drink and mistreat you and behave badly, which he will do until HE decides he wants to stop and not a moment before. That's really, really hard to get a handle on to start with but what happened for me is, after a while, after I decided to forget about what HE was doing and just do this program come hell or high water. I focused on ME and after a few months, well it's amazing but I stopped feeling trapped and stitched up and started being able to make clear headed choices (even if he threw a tantrum about them) with confidence and calm. He had no choice but to stop the crazy emotional manipulation because it just didn't work on me anymore. And it really doesn't, what you see when you work through the al-anon program can't be unseen. He (My A) hasn't gotten better, in fact he still thinks we have now separated because of my problems..not because of his drinking or his abuse...that's OK. Al-anon isn't about fixing or curing a drunk, we don't have the power to do that. Its about healing you so that you can experience happiness, calm, and make decisions that are right for you without being twisted and tortured by what someone else says and does and that includes your husband, his mother, his counsellor and the postman. They do not have your best interests at heart. Someone has to show up for you...it might as well be you, yeah?
Thank you for your response, I really appreciate it and the time you took out for it. You gave me a lot to think about -- especially how this relationship serves me. That is something I have questioned recently, but I don't think I searched deeply enough for the answer to that, and that is likely one of the most important things I can learn about myself right now.
At this time, the most prevailing obstacle for me is getting over the hurt of realizing that I falsely trusted him again. What I do know is that, the take away from it is recognizing just how important sticking to my boundaries are -- because when I don't, it leaves me feeling hurt and crappy about myself. It hurts also seeing the love/respect you have for someone is not reciprocated -- that's what gets me the most. And, I suppose it is that false hope that he will just *get it* at some point, and show me the love and respect that I have tried so much to show him regardless of all hell I have been through with him... that has made things harder for me. I think I am starting to accept that at this juncture, he doesn't get it, and is not ready to show me the same love and respect I have offered him. And, beginning to accept that honestly is sending me through somewhat of a grieving process, I guess, if that makes sense.
I have a pretty good understanding of myself overall, and I have the drive to do what's best for myself, always -- my weakness is in over-empathizing with people to the extent that I begin making excuses for them. I have done it my whole life, and I know that -- but I continue to struggle with it, because I never know when to draw the line, HOW to draw the line, and how to do so gracefully....
Hopefully that wasn't a jumbled up mess, because I'm just sort of venting off the top of my head right now.
Thanks again for sharing your experiences and responding. I also love your Alice in Wonderland signature :) I'm a huge Alice fan.
You just described the awful mess and the dilemma of an alcoholic marriage PERFECTLY. I know this is not an assignment that you wanted or ever hoped to get an A+ on, but I really have to tell you that, as I was reading your share, I was nodding repeatedly and was pretty much like "Yep...Yep...I bet next it will be....Oh wait, sure enough...there it is...Yep....That's how it is....Yep....That sure is alcoholism....sounds familiar..."
So...my feedback is only that I can tell that this disease has kicked both your butts all over the place and that is basically what the disease does. Your intuitions and insights are spot on, but healing is needed for you whether or not he admits to his alcoholism or not. You are in the right spot and I think alanon might just save your life.
I appreciate this reply a lot, because it's validating -- which it has been really hard for me to stick to know what I know to be true throughout constantly being INvalidated. Thank you so much for that, because I think that is mainly what I was seeking when I came here. Lately, I feel myself drifting towards wanting to turn a blind eye to the issue again, because he keeps insisting it doesn't exist, and it's really exhausting to remain strong against. I know that my attempts to argue my point of view against his is pointless and something I need to stop doing -- but I'm finding it difficult how to respond to him when he constantly brings it up. I don't know if his intention is to exhaust me to the point that I just erase my boundaries again...or what...but sometimes I think that's what it feels like.
I looked up local al anon groups, and I'm in the process of talking myself into going.
He wanted to do marriage counseling with me... which sounds great and all... but when we were recommended to a counselor who deals with drug/alcohol abuse, he was not open to it. We saw her once, and as she kept stressing how urgent and crucial it was to deal with the drinking issue in order to start fixing the marriage -- he got mad, and began making more excuses and saying how our biggest issues have nothing to do with drinking. He also tried to say, "only half of our fights were because of drinking" as if that was supposed to make the drinking seem like less of an issue, LOL. *sigh*
Some of the rationales he doles out are just unbelievable. It honestly leaves me speechless sometimes, because how can you rationally argue against something so absurd and nonsensical?
I can relate to your share and my ah is dry and attends AA same disease
And thinking problems though.
I too come from alcoholism and dysfunction. We were preprogrammed
To seek out the same. The addict is familiar to us so we go with it and
Hope and believe the best.
Alanon ftf mtgs have saved my soul from further destruction. My ah is
On a seek and destroy mission in our marriage even with being dry for
30 years. The addict in him is alive and kicking and acting out, we are
Getting divorced and he has an aa gf.
i went to face to face meetings and listened, learned and absorbed
The wisdom in those rooms. You do not have to say a word. I did not
For two years. I love to sit and absorb the positive energy and wisdom.
Alanon is a program about me and saving me in spite of the disease.
My heart and soul are broken too but i am getting stronger everyday
In spite of him. My HP is holding my hand helping me heal.
We learn to fix us on the inside. You can not fix the addict they need to help
Themselves. Also you learn healthy boundaries and loving detachment
Among other tools. There are 3 daily readers that cost 12-14 dollars
Each. They help explain the program and plenty of books to borrow or
Free Pamphlets.
I think you are asking yourself good questions and you should feel free to vent away! It seems like it is a productive process for you, you are working things out as you say them. You make perfect sense to me. I guess what I want to share with you is that for me, when I began this process, I had to stop and look at every single isolated concern I had and break it into parts...how much of this is about me, and things I can and should change, and how much of it is about my anger/sadness/fear/disappointment about other people not doing what I think they should do? You might have heard the serenity prayer- (I'm not religious, don't know if you are but it's still a great mantra either way) "Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change Courage to change the things I can And wisdom to know the difference" For me that was accepting that I just can't influence in any real or lasting way, how another person thinks or feels. I can have the courage to look inward and challenge and redirect my own thoughts and feelings, and the more I practice, practice, practice this, the more I understand the difference. That's how I learnt to "draw the line". I had to get to know myself and understand what I really did and didn't accept, want and need before I could hope to draw lines that other people could see and understand. For most of my life, I was drawing wobbly lines on the ground with a lead pencil, constantly erasing and moving them because I was worried that people didn't like them or understand them. So people learnt that to get me to erase my lines, all they had to do was act upset or crazy and I would whip out the eraser to try to fix things...now I draw my lines with a flame-thrower, lol.
The Alice quote really sums up what I have gained from al-anon. What I thought mattered (what other people did and what they thought about me and what they expected of me) didn't matter, and what I thought didn't matter (myself and what I thought, felt and wanted) did. You see?
-- Edited by missmeliss on Wednesday 8th of April 2015 05:23:54 PM
__________________
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Hi rt, welcome to Al-Anon and the active board here. I can relate to growing up in dysfunction, and trying to figure out what's best for me while dealing with it. The Al-Anon tools have given me a method to try to discover exactly that, as growing up and being surrounded by alcoholism gave me a distorted lesson on what was good for me and what wasn't.
If you are looking for meetings besides face to face, there are fourteen Al-Anon meetings total that are hosted here; just go to the top of the page for the link to the meeting/chat room. During the week they are at 9am and 9pm ET; it's a little different on the weekends.
Thanks so much for joining us. I'm so glad you are here.
Thanks for the replies -- I don't have a lot of time, because I have to go to the dentist soon *eek*, but I had a "talk" with my husband yesterday that did not go well. I told him that I cannot be with him if he chooses to drink again, and that there is no getting around that -- of course he tried to plead with me, to "give him another try" because he feels like he is entitled to drink with his family if he wants to. I've already said my piece in the past, that spending time with his family is not negatively affected by NOT drinking so his argument makes no sense to me. I also made clear to him that I have given him plenty of chances (the exact same situation as now) before that blew up in my face, so I have done what is natural and LEARNED from my experiences -- to not trust it and go back down that route again. He begged, "just give it another chance" and I said I can't. He kept trying to say that I'm telling him what to do and being controlling, and I said he can choose whatever he wishes to, but if my boundary is crossed, then I make the choice I need to make. He proclaimed that he WILL drink with his family if he wants to when he sees them, and that's that. So now I don't know what that means... if there is any point in sticking around to find out if he pulls his head out of his ass (unlikely, I know), or if I should just remove myself from the situation now. It's the damn hope that he will realize something that messes me up. I am only still here, because, I have that sliver of hope that he will wake up. But, I fear that if I keep myself in the situation, I will only find it harder when he decides he's going to drink as he has already assured me he will do.
I feel like breaking down right now, because nothing sucks more than being told in a number of ways that a bottle is more important than our relationship is.
btw, I am assuming that my husband is an example of dry drunk?? I guess it doesn't matter what the "name" for it is, but it helps me make sense of things (since none of it actually does)
