My son in prison wants to marry an alcoholic . . . - Al-Anon Family Group

Colibri · Member

My son in prison wants to marry an alcoholic . . .

Katy · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear Colibri,

I totally understand where your coming from here, and I will reply with my own experience of dealing with my son who in my humble opinion makes dreadful bad judgments and goes against any well meaning parental advice, they will do whatever they want to do wether we like it or not, so I have learnt it is ok to lovingly advice and then let it go no nagging or harping on, they do hear us but choose to ignore, they will either learn by their mistakes or they won't, what I have had to do is try and put my anguish and frustration aside and my will to enforce my beliefs on my son to have him do things my way for my feelings, it's his life and if I want any part of it I have had to accept him as he is and I will use the word tolerate some things, not all, to keep my relationship with him on an even keal, our son has an unenviable track record but yet through that i can see a smidgeon of hope in that the choices he makes and if can leave be, and let him bare his own consequences I do see a little progress, there is an art to saying what we mean without being mean, I have also had to get over the shame of caring too much about what others would think of me as a mother and my parenting skills, and my failings, a lot of this is fear based false evidence appearing real, I think it's about letting go really, the little bird out of the nest.

love

Katy

x

Colibri · Member

Dear Katy,

Thanks for your advice and experience. I am feeling a great deal of aversion towards this young woman, based on her self-destructive behavior (and refusal to seek help). I noticed she has recently posted more seductive photos on her Facebook page since my son decided to stop trying to control her behavior. My son has no access to a computer, but if he saw her photos, I am pretty sure he would have a reaction. I have already let my son know I am disappointed in his choice, but he thinks they are "working" on their relationship. (Sigh!).

I wonder if you or anyone else may have suggestions as to my dealing with her face-to-face in a non-judgmental manner (even though I am feeling judgmental), and whether I should attend their wedding, given my feelings. I don't want to be hypocritical; yet, it would seem wrong for me not to attend, either, if he continues to ask me to.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Colibri and geeeeeeez my own mother could have written your post and maybe you are channeling her some or the other way around. My mom had to let go as you are considering is appropriate for you also. I am recovering and a dual member of both Al-Anon and AA. I never made it to jail until I was completely sober and not as a result of any chemical related issues. Al-Anon gave my mom the son she always wanted and AA assured me, her and the family and community that I would until this day not drink again.

If you are not in the program find out where we get together in your area by calling the hotline number which is in the white pages of your local telephone book. Get there as fast as you can and find a chair for yourself and sit down and listen with an open mind...stick around after the meeting and talk to the fellowship and go take a look at the literature table. You'll want to get as much information as you can right off.

My relationships in the past which include two marriages to addicts and alcoholics could not be stopped by her even after she traveled thousands of miles to do so. At the start of the dysfunction she was part of the problem however the solutions for me came from Al-Anon first and then Al-Anon/AA.

You're going to need a Higher Power greater than the disease and the people who act out in it. First off...get to the rooms of Al-Anon and keep coming back here also. This is family and we understand and have lots of experience, strengths, and hopes you can freely use as you choose.

(((((hugs))))) smile

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi and welcome to MIP

I agree with the others.....Its sad and hes buying major trouble but you won't be able to control any of this......

I hope you can find an alanon meet close to you so you can just detach, let go (hard, I know, but essential to your well being) let him learn his own lessons...

so sorry he chose someone who , if not in a strong program and possibly therapy, too, most likely will bring him down even to substance abuse again, but he has to learn his own lessons...

I can't imagine how you feel, my oldest daughter married young, he was a drinker and very very abusive to her....there was nothing I could do...nothing....she had made up her mind and sadly had to learn a very hard lesson out of it.....

she is in alanon, now working a good program and has remarried years ago, now to a real sweetheart.....i was lucky, her first didn't do more damage to her....i wanted to literally shoot him...take him out he was that bad....its awful being powerless, especially when it comes to your kids, but that is what it is...

hang out here, read the posts of others and post yourself and hopefully in the meets you can find a sponsor and keep the focus on you b/c you is all you can control....

sending you tons of SUPPORT

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Well...Colibri, I totally understand where you are coming from. I guess I can only suggest shifting your mindset. Your son is alive and kicking and has some spirit to be choosing to love someone like this. Prison could have turned him hard and rotten. So there are worse things he could be doing. I guess maybe choose to celebrate his desire to love another and figure he will probably continue his pattern of having to learn things the hard way. Have faith that he will learn what he needs to even if it's through some hardship. With my alcoholism, I had to have enough bad experiences....with crappy relationships, I had to have enough of those also to finally recognize a healthy one.

It also doesn't make sense to you, but it makes perfect sense from an outsider's standpoint. Your son is in jail, super lonely, thinks he has found the answer to changing his life and that he can fix someone else. He has yet to get out and make a life so who would be attracted to him at this point? Only a damaged girl with lots of issues. He just doesn't know that he could have a better relationship if he waited and got his life in order first. I'm guessing he probably has never been good at delaying gratification or he wouldn't have had addiction and criminal issues to begin with.

Anyhow, this is his path. It's better than being locked up for life and better than never loving anyone and having his spirit totally crushed. He will learn what he needs too.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

I am a mom of 4 children and two are married. I can place me in your shoes and honestly say I would go to my sons wedding if the circumstances were the same. I don't know if I could have easily made that choice prior to al anon, though. Find local meetings that work for you and go daily, if possible. This is the pathway to peace around this difficult issue. Hugs.....

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I have learned to just listen. What my son says and does changes like the wind when he isn't actively working his program. The fact your son is in prison for the next 3 years (and then maybe deported) would be something that would suggest to me to wait and see. The fact that the current gf is an active A who usually ends up in jail after yet another fight would also suggest to me to wait and see. My son has also been in jail and in prison. He has had many gfs. One thing I know that helped me stop short of advising my son on what he should do or not do while in jail/prison is that I have never been there. I am not brain damaged. I am not an alcoholic. I do not know what is best for my son. Only he and his HP know what is best. I can share my experience/strength/hope with him when wanted. I can pray for him. I can listen to his actions and not his words. I can work on my own life and work my own program. But I truly do not know the way he should walk or the way he should handle himself or his relationships. I'm simply not him. I've also learned that I can only give a limited amount of time and energy to listening because it interferes with my life and what I want to do for me and based on my long term experience with multiple active As, there is more talk than walk and I'd rather walk than talk.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 10:58:34 AM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 11:01:22 AM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 11:07:01 AM

Colibri · Member

@grateful2be. Thank you for your comments! Will find local Al-Anon meetings.

Colibri

-- Edited by Colibri on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 10:07:59 PM

-- Edited by Colibri on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 10:08:36 PM

Colibri · Member

I'm new to this forum and not sure if I'm answering to the person I am trying to answer to (Paula) or whether this will appear as a generic answer to all. Is there a button for "Thanks" that we can use to acknowledge another's post? Anyway, all of the answers have been very helpful, and I appreciate them all. Specifically to Paula, thanks for your comments about attending the wedding. This definitely will call for some Al-Anon meetings before the dreaded day (not yet set, thank goodness).

Colibri

Colibri · Member

Thank you for your perspective. Very helpful.

Colibri

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Your reply comes to all of us smile It is because of " all of us" that I can offer what I offer. I am glad you are looking at al anon, it was a true Godsend for me and I listened. We are here for you 24/7. Hugs

Colibri · Member

pinkchip wrote:
I guess maybe choose to celebrate his desire to love another and figure he will probably continue his pattern of having to learn things the hard way. Have faith that he will learn what he needs to even if it's through some hardship. ...
It also doesn't make sense to you, but it makes perfect sense from an outsider's standpoint. Your son is in jail, super lonely, thinks he has found the answer to changing his life and that he can fix someone else. He has yet to get out and make a life so who would be attracted to him at this point? Only a damaged girl with lots of issues. He just doesn't know that he could have a better relationship if he waited and got his life in order first. I'm guessing he probably has never been good at delaying gratification or he wouldn't have had addiction and criminal issues to begin with.

Anyhow, this is his path. It's better than being locked up for life and better than never loving anyone and having his spirit totally crushed. He will learn what he needs too.

Thank you! Very incisive. You're right. He's learning to open up and love in a way he could not before. I believe him when he tells me proudly that he's not using drugs or alcohol in there. He has had no write-ups while in there and he's trying to get an education. He's been lonely for female companionship and she was easily available. He's never been good at delaying gratification--correct! She is his drug of choice right now. I've been trying to decide from a spiritual point of view how to reduce my judgmental attitude towards her, since I believe we should love everyone, even if we don't love their lifestyle or behavior.

Colibri · Member

neshema2 wrote:
.
hang out here, read the posts of others and post yourself and hopefully in the meets you can find a sponsor and keep the focus on you b/c you is all you can control....
sending you tons of SUPPORT

Thank you, neshema2, for sharing your experience.

Colibri

Colibri · Member

Jerry F wrote:

Aloha Colibri and geeeeeeez my own mother could have written your post and maybe you are channeling her some or the other way around. My mom had to let go as you are considering is appropriate for you also. I am recovering and a dual member of both Al-Anon and AA. I never made it to jail until I was completely sober and not as a result of any chemical related issues. Al-Anon gave my mom the son she always wanted and AA assured me, her and the family and community that I would until this day not drink again.
You're going to need a Higher Power greater than the disease and the people who act out in it. First off...get to the rooms of Al-Anon and keep coming back here also. This is family and we understand and have lots of experience, strengths, and hopes you can freely use as you choose.
(((((hugs)))))

Ha ha! Thank you for making me laugh with the quote about your own mother. I guess this may be a common reaction by mothers who have to learn to let go.

Colibri

-- Edited by Colibri on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 12:41:32 PM

Colibri · Member

PP wrote:
Your reply comes to all of us It is because of " all of us" that I can offer what I offer. I am glad you are looking at al anon, it was a true Godsend for me and I listened. We are here for you 24/7. Hugs

OK. I think I'll try quoting what the person said that I am responding to. It's hard for me to receive these generous comments without thanking each and every one of you, but maybe that's not the point.

Colibri

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Well, I can't talk about the others and I like to see feedback so "thank away" if you choose. In meetings, we always thank the speaker. We don't have to agree with their perspective and it still lets the speaker know they have been heard and with gratitude. (((C)))

ohno · Senior Member

I don't have any wisdom on this issue to share, but three years is a very long time and a lot could happen during that time. I would turn to prayer and pray for the highest good for your son (amongst other prayers for healing).

Colibri · Member

grateful2be wrote:
Well, I can't talk about the others and I like to see feedback so "thank away" if you choose. In meetings, we always thank the speaker. We don't have to agree with their perspective and it still lets the speaker know they have been heard and with gratitude. (((C)))

Well then, thank you for your response! I was worried about annoying everyone with my "thank you's."

Colibri

Colibri · Member

ohno wrote:
I don't have any wisdom on this issue to share, but three years is a very long time and a lot could happen during that time. I would turn to prayer and pray for the highest good for your son (amongst other prayers for healing).

It helps to be reminded! It's hard to see him behaving in an obsessive manner in this relationship--to the point where he would not give me my own visiting day all to myself. After my losing several visits around Christmas so that he could spend time with her, he still had her arrive for a visit on my visiting day, prior to my visit with him. This meant I awkwardly had to cross paths with her while she was waiting to be taken back to the entry point at the end of her time. (She could also observe my visit with my son while waiting to be picked up). That was the last straw for me and made me realize he is losing control. I told him I will not visit until I can have my own day. I was livid and felt disrespected, but I also thought it was healthy when he told me he needed space to figure out the relationship. We agreed to suspend my visits for now, and I am trying to accept it as part of him separating from his mother, since we've been very close until she became involved with her. That was the same day he announced to me, happily, that they will be marrying as soon as possible. He calls me often and I am being careful not to lay a guilt trip on him (although I feel like it at times). He has asked me to allow him to make his own mistakes, and I know that is the right thing to do, although difficult.

Colibri

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

I typically thank individually, as it expresses my gratitude for them taking the time to respond. I value my time and theirs. I enjoyed reading your response to the others...it helps me to know you through your words and intentions (since we can't be face to face) hmm I need to experience gratitude any way I can get it...it keeps my spirit in a happy place!

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi and welcome to MIP- you're in the right place. Other's posted great responses. I'm sorry you have this and can relate. I have found that things work best for me when I'm able to keep the lines of communication open with my loved ones, even if I don't agree with them. When in these difficult situations, I do my best to focus on if my words and actions are intelligent, kind, and meaningful. This does not mean that I condone anything, it just means that I'm offering what I can. I'm glad you're seeking local Alanon meetings as well as those here on MIP- to get the support, perspectives, and skills that will get you through the best way possible. Keep coming back.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

I have a question ?? This was an interesting post to me because I am wondering when you change your boundaries/values to allow others mistakes ???? I hope that question makes sense.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Truth...since I have no power or in other words am powerless all I have to do is detach or "let go and Let God" My boundaries are only mine for me If I don't want someone or something in my space I don't let it..."talk away and/or walk away" has worked for me. I have no choice over other peoples mistakes because a "mistake" would be a judgment of mine and might not be one for them. People make choices without advising or asking me during the process so "stuff happens" in spite of me and my values and boundaries. Does that shed light for how I see it? (((hugs))) smile

Colibri · Member

PP wrote:
I typically thank individually, as it expresses my gratitude for them taking the time to respond. I value my time and theirs. I enjoyed reading your response to the others...it helps me to know you through your words and intentions (since we can't be face to face) I need to experience gratitude any way I can get it...it keeps my spirit in a happy place!

Yep--I'm in favor of gratitude also. For example, being grateful for a sunny day, the sun on my face, birds in the sky, good health, etc. So, thank you for your comment!

Colibri

Colibri · Member

Jerry F wrote:

Truth...since I have no power or in other words am powerless all I have to do is detach or "let go and Let God" My boundaries are only mine for me If I don't want someone or something in my space I don't let it..."talk away and/or walk away" has worked for me. I have no choice over other peoples mistakes because a "mistake" would be a judgment of mine and might not be one for them. People make choices without advising or asking me during the process so "stuff happens" in spite of me and my values and boundaries. Does that shed light for how I see it? (((hugs)))

Yes and maybe. I agree in theory but I really love my son and don't want to cut him off by rejecting his girlfriend. However, I will be looking for a mid-way without cutting off our whole relationship. I may have to find a way to come to terms with her as an important person in his life while somehow maintaining boundaries. I do appreciate the "let go and let God" philosophy and am trying to follow it, to the best of my ability.

Colibri

-- Edited by Colibri on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 09:56:28 PM

Colibri · Member

Truth wrote:
I have a question ?? This was an interesting post to me because I am wondering when you change your boundaries/values to allow others mistakes ???? I hope that question makes sense.

Intriguing question but I'm not sure what you are asking. I am trying to learn which boundaries are important in my situation. Can you clarify what you mean?

Colibri

Colibri · Member

ohno wrote:
I don't have any wisdom on this issue to share, but three years is a very long time and a lot could happen during that time. I would turn to prayer and pray for the highest good for your son (amongst other prayers for healing).

I'm not sure if I already responded, but thanks for reminding me to pray! I always pray for him but your wording "the highest good" is something I will incorporate. I hope something positive will develop for him during that time.

Colibri

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

I think I am trying to learn with you because this one would be a really hard one for me because of how I value marriage. I would struggle deeply with this one so I can appreciate your struggle.

Colibri · Member

Truth wrote:
I think I am trying to learn with you because this one would be a really hard one for me because of how I value marriage. I would struggle deeply with this one so I can appreciate your struggle.

Yes--I have a similar view of marriage as something sacred. My son is adopted by me. He comes from a background where marriage was not necessarily viewed in this way. He thinks marriage is okay in spite of all the serious problems each one is bringing to the relationship and the fact he has never been with her in the outside world. Because my son has had the benefit of our relationship, I believe he is a healthier person than she is. But I am having to realize he is NOT healthy in the area of choosing a wife. So, I think the principal of loving him while letting go is one I have to follow. I will not change my way of thinking, however, and he knows that.

Colibri

Colibri · Member

bud wrote:
I have found that things work best for me when I'm able to keep the lines of communication open with my loved ones, even if I don't agree with them. When in these difficult situations, I do my best to focus on if my words and actions are intelligent, kind, and meaningful. This does not mean that I condone anything, it just means that I'm offering what I can. .

We do have good communication and I hope we will be able to maintain it in spite of this relationship. I appreciate the words "intelligent, kind and meaningful" because my words have not always been kind. At times, I was very sarcastic in talking with him about her, even caustic in my remarks (much to my later regret). So the "kind" part is what I think I have to work on now. I just told him last night I was not going to say anything (when he commented on their relationship), because I was thinking to myself that my words would not come across as "kind"!

Colibri

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

I honestly do not know what I would do. I know that does not help but I can feel myself torn with you. I would have two really highly conflicting values both of which I would want to honor.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

I think I answered my question after reading Jerry's response and then I had Pink's old response running through my head...."Better to cause a resentment than have one" ...I think I would have to politely decline attending.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

I had a similar situation with my alcoholic/addict elder son. My grand-daughter (his daughter) took up residence with her boy-friends family and they were keeping her from seeing my son and making plans outside of the family. My son called me and told me that I was invited to the wedding and while I had no input into the plans or the behaviors of all who were involved I did have my value system which is not and will not be violated to please or enable anyone else. I don't martyr anymore. I don't suffer over a bad decision I knew would be bad if I violated my value systems. I told him I would not go and I would not validate the insanity of what was going on which involved people I didn't even know and which involved the consequences of alcoholism and drug addiction thoughts, feelings and behaviors in my son's family. They did what they did and I wasn't there so my wife and I stayed on program. Years later my son has left his family broken and insane as he has returned to drinking and using and taken up with another woman for all of the insane imagination that alcoholics and addicts will justify with....blaming others for what they do.

My value system is detach and don't support the growth of the disease. My value system is do not violate my ideals and beliefs for the benefit of anyone else's comfort.
To thine own self be true is a large part of my value system behavior...My HP just so appreciates me staying in this paradigm because our relationship is so much more smoother. (((((hugs))))) smile

Since it requires someone else's choice I don't cause resentments.

-- Edited by Jerry F on Wednesday 7th of January 2015 12:22:15 AM

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Jerry F wrote:

I had a similar situation with my alcoholic/addict elder son. My grand-daughter (his daughter) took up residence with her boy-friends family and they were keeping her from seeing my son and making plans outside of the family. My son called me and told me that I was invited to the wedding and while I had no input into the plans or the behaviors of all who were involved I did have my value system which is not and will not be violated to please or enable anyone else. I don't martyr anymore. I don't suffer over a bad decision I knew would be bad if I violated my value systems. I told him I would not go and I would not validate the insanity of what was going on which involved people I didn't even know and which involved the consequences of alcoholism and drug addiction thoughts, feelings and behaviors in my son's family. They did what they did and I wasn't there so my wife and I stayed on program. Years later my son has left his family broken and insane as he has returned to drinking and using and taken up with another woman for all of the insane imagination that alcoholics and addicts will justify with....blaming others for what they do.
My value system is detach and don't support the growth of the disease. My value system is do not violate my ideals and beliefs for the benefit of anyone else's comfort.
To thine own self be true is a large part of my value system behavior...My HP just so appreciates me staying in this paradigm because our relationship is so much more smoother. (((((hugs)))))

Since it requires someone else's choice I don't cause resentments.

-- Edited by Jerry F on Wednesday 7th of January 2015 12:22:15 AM

Thanks for sharing this....it gives me something to ponder.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank Colibri for your thread and the courage to share this experience. (((((hugs))))

Colibri · Member

Truth wrote:
Thank Colibri for your thread and the courage to share this experience. (((((hugs))))

Thanks to you and everyone else. When I think of not going to his wedding, I feel like crying. Underneath my anger at the ignorance of this decision are a a lot of sadness and feelings of loss. Reading the different responses, I think I could reasonably decide not to attend, due to my disagreement with a very poor choice my son is making. But when I think of "kindness," I feel like I should attend. I don't want him to think I am "punishing" him because I could not let go and did not agree with his decision. He will know I don't agree with the decision but am attending because I love him and don't want to cut off our relationship because of this marriage. Over time, our relationship may become more distant, which would be sad. But I am going to work on strengthening my spiritual life so I can accept whatever happens in a spirit of love and acceptance.

Colibri

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Colibri: Maybe I misunderstood you. Is this marriage a far off decision or a very close to happening event?

Colibri · Member

grateful2be wrote:
Colibri: Maybe I misunderstood you. Is this marriage a far off decision or a very close to happening event?

He has been vague with me about when it will happen. Recently, he told me that the papers were sent in, which I interpreted to mean he submitted a request to the prison to allow the wedding. I have been reluctant to ask for a specific date. (Upsetting to me). He told me he will let me know when it is set up. I would estimate anywhere from one to three months.

Colibri

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh, then, I'm sorry that I did misinterpret the time span. I got the impression his plan was to carry through on the wedding after he left prison.

This happened in my own life although my son wasn't in prison. I knew my son's disease to be oppositional enough that it would do the exact opposite of what my son already knew wasn't something I would think to be healthy or wise. Rather than to allow myself to get all caught up in the insanity of this disease, I just chose to listen, answer any questions he might have honestly, and be supportive of him.

The soon to be wife introduced herself over the phone to me and shared what she did with the question what did I think? I responded: I think you are both of age. You are old enough to make your own decisions and live with the consequences of them. It's not important what I think at this point (they'd already made arrangements to get a license, etc) it is important what you think and what you decide to do with your own lives. Fast forward several weeks later, they broke up.

I would have attended the ceremony although I wouldn't have made the same choice. I would have attended it because my son was seeking a normal life and even though he's seeking it in ways that don't work, I could support his desire for a normal life and a happy experience with an intimate partner. My motives were to honor his right to make decisions I wouldn't make and my desire to support his underlying desires.

Insanity for me would have been to argue with him when I know him and how he reacts to what I'd do by doing the direct opposite if I press it and giving or not giving "permission" to a gal I don't know and a son who is sick and hurting especially when I know that it may not even happen - which it didn't - if I just butt out and stay true to myself and my need to keep myself sane and as peaceful as possible.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 7th of January 2015 01:20:01 PM

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