The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I'll leave out the gory details w/ the A and how she was arguing so much that my son went to go to someone elses house he doesn't really like to escape. Saying he could still hear her two houses up the block.....suffice to say, it wasn't the best of days.
My 9 yo son is becoming the houshold empath, and quite frankly it worries me. He is walking around in tune to everyones feelings. He knows right away when something is bothering me, and will try to tell me he loves me, offer me a kiss and/or hug etc. He picks up on it even when I"m trying to fake it, especially if I let my guard down. Last nite we were up a little late watching a movie we had to return.
Last nite my son, my 13 yo daughter and I were up a little late watching a movie we had to return. When it was done my daughter was looking at some old pictures on the computer. We were saying our good nightes and acrossed the room my son picks up on something w/ the 13 yo and asks her what is wrong. She says nothing, kisses me good nite, says good night to him. Again he asks her what is wrong, she says nothing and it sounds like she is a little congested. She goes into her room and my son says to me....what is wrong w/ Larissa she is upset she sounds like she was just crying.
I call out to her and she says she was just looking at old pictures. I look over and there is a picture of her, her brother and a dog. My son is younger and skinnier and they are both smiling. She is crying and said I just want things to go back to where they used to be. When we were all happy. And look at B...., he has let himself go (meaning he has gotten chunky). Gawd this really hit me. My oldest daughter had something similiar on a blog page she had written (she showed me the link one time) only she blamed it all on the move and the crap the A filled her head with about I drove her into the psych unit.
I tried to use this as an opportunity with the 13 yo as she has been lashing out at everything again badly. Including physically at times. I told her that we are responsible for our own happiness. I said look at that picture....your happy but honestly alot of this stuff was going on when that picture was taken. The difference is that you didn't realize alot of what was going on so you couldn't let it affect you. Mom was drinking then, dad was reacting inappropriately then. It wasn't too far away from when Mom couldn't spend Thanksgiving with us because she was drinking. I said Mom has had this disease for a very long time. I told her that if we could focus on ourselves and making ourselves happy and treat each other with respect, that we could still be happy.
She again said "but look at B.., he has let himself go." I said, for starters, him being a bit overweight, shouldn't make you unhappy. Second of all, he is 9 and isn't totally responsible for his weight. This at least explains some of why when she goes off on him and say she hates him and calls him fat. She is really worried about him.
This morning we are going out the door for the bus and my oldest daugter swigs milk and wipes her mouth on one of my son's jackets. I ask her what she is doing, million and 1 excuses, the jacket is already dirty, etc. I explain that we don't wipe ourselves on other people (she does this to) or their clothing. She says I don't care. And I especially don't care when you say something. We get down to the bus stop and she asks me to run the wipers so she can see when the bus comes. I said, what if I said I didn't care? She said parents are supposed to care, I said so are children. (I know not the best parenting, trying to forcefeed my point). I start to turn them on and she get gets out of the car. I tried to use this to reinforce with my 13 yo still in the car. Larissa, we can make ourselves happy. We need to do things for ourselves, take care of ourselves and treat each other with respect.
The wretched diseases are tearing my kids apart. It's hard not to think of what ifs, when the what is, is so shi**y.
I need to find ways to set appropriate boundries for all members of our family. I need to find ways to enforce them in peaceful and loving ways. I need to continue to work on my program. For these are the only ways that I can have hope that the what could be's will be better than this. I just paused and thought, I'm where my HP thinks I need to be today. <sign> that did help a bit. I'm so worried about my children.
Thanks, Bob
__________________
You are a perfect child of God and God and I love you just the way you are! (added by me...in that special alanon way)
My heart breaks for you and your family when I read this. Not having children I have no answers for you. I can only offer my heartfelt support to you and your family. You're a good father, don't ever doubt that. I hope your children may find some peace within themselves. This is a terrible disease that affects all familiy members. Couple that with just trying to be a kid in this day and age, it's not easy. Keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.
Live strong, Karilynn
__________________
It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
My heart goes out to you and your family. You are real special to us. Just keep coming my friend. Keep working your program. Keep taking care of you. Use all the tools of this program ~ THINK, Keep it simple, How important is it, etc. etc. etc. I SO have been where you are during the roughest time of my (and thus my kids) life. I can promise you if you keep working it, it does get better because you get better. Children learn by example, not by words. I have had so many examples of my communication between me and my boys that I could go on forever but here's the latest that just happened this weekend.
My eldest, almost 21, knows everything tee hee. Through one of my contacts, I was able to get him into a referee program (basketball - his love). He took the course and aced it and began reffing. Getting the games is political, as you and I well know. He doesn't see this. Anyway, long story short ~ he's supposed to attend once a month meetings on Sundays and mostly they are boring. He stopped going because the info. they covered he had just finished with his class. The man that guided him through this process (my contact) saw me on Friday and said "I miss your son on Sundays." hmmmmmmmmmm. So I say to my son, "so and so misses you at the meetings." He told me they are useless, too early in the morning, blah blah blah. I listened and just simply said to him in the nicest way "Son, it's political. If you want to do more reffing, you've got to have your prescence felt. I only wanted to let you know that so and so missed you at the meetings." I fretted because I did not want him to blow his chance; however, it's out of my hands. Well lo and behold, without one more word from me (and I did not tell his father either) he got up early on Sunday morning and went to the meeting
So if I gently and kindly say my part what I think would help them and completely let go of the results, they usually do what I have asked them w/out any grief. I hope this helps you and gives you hope.
Keep coming ~ love Maria
__________________
If I am not for me, who will be? If I am only for myself, then who am I? If not now, when?
That's a lesson that is so hard to teach to our kids - they expect US to make everything all right for them.
All I can suggest is to spend happy time with them when you can - try to make those little moments pleasant and loving. Work on yourself, so you show them by example that we really do control our own happiness. I sent my 13 year old daughter to a counselor for a few sessions when she was really unhappy. It seemed to help, I think it was having someone just listen to her, without the lecture it so often turns into when kids try to open up to parents "Well, you wouldn't have that problem if you would just blah blah..." It was through a community service agency, ten bucks a session, and worth it. She was really open to it - I was a bit surprised, but I think she got a kick out of how 'grownup' it was. She took herself to her appointments, and I didn't ask a thing (biting my tongue, but I did it)
Keep working your program - the better you are doing, the better they will do.
(((((((((((bob))))))))))) my heart and prayers go out 2 U
those poor kids need U and i am glad U see that U need to set some sort of boundaries....
i agree, the better U take care of U, the better U can help them....when i was a child, i had NO help NO support NO one and that is why i am so sick--- if i had had ONE parent care for me/ nurture me/ give me the love/validation i sooo desperately needed, i know i wouldn't be HALF as bad as i am becuz at least i got 50% of my needs/wants met.....i got zero....i know my mom loved me, but she let me down BIG time not stepping up to the plate and protecting me.....sooo i end up here in recovery for the REST of my life.....
i know, bob, U will do the right thing by these innocent and helpless children who desperately need U......so take care of U and hang in there in the program........GOD bless U......hugs/ rosie
How I see things is that you and your kids are at least communicating. That is a great thing! I remember a counselor telling me that I was the approachable parent and that was a great thing too. I see so much positive in what you shared. Keep the communication lines open. The things you are sharing to me are so valuable! It seems as though the kids are really listening too! I think you are doing all the right things with HP's timing and working your program extremely well. your friend in recovery, cdb :) xoxoxox (((((((bumper)))))))
Hugs for you and the kids Bob. Gee you are a great Dad and an excellent communicator. For your daughter at the age she is at it is probably extremely embarrassing for her having her Mum has an A. She may be resistant to counselling but you could always just leave some literature lying around that has Alateen info on it. The choice becomes hers if she wants the outside help. I would be extremely concerned about your 9 year old boy as you mentioned. He appears to be already taking on the rescuer role. This could of course be insecurities in that he is frightened something will happen to the healthy members of his family because Mum is sick with her disease. If you can I would definitely get him into counselling now. In the meantime make sure you have some time for you. Are you trying to be mother, father and hold down a job as well? You will burn out. Take care. Leo x
I feel your pain and too well know the affects this dreaded disease plays on all of us, yes, even kids (who, by the was are not as resilent as we would sometimes like to think). They too have a difficult time understand why life can't be "perfect". Even the youngest of child can show signs of trying to control situations.
What I attempt to do with my children is to help them live in reality. Accept that their dad is who he is and none of us can change that. And yes, we are responsible for our own happiness, however.... what does that mean? If I don't set the example for my children, then I am just throwing words at them and asking them to figure out something that I sometimes struggle with myself. When my oldest daughter who is 25 broke down recently and shared that she still suffers the pain of feeling abandoned, not only by her birth father during her childhood years, but also by her stepfather who claimed her as his daughter for more than 20 years, yet since leaving the family has not made any contact with her. Trust me, helping a child long distance is not an easy task... she was also expressing that she fully understood the pain that her sibilings are dealing with as he is their natural father and he doesn't make many attempts (birthdays/holidays only) to be a part of their lives. Outside of acknowledging my own pain, I can also acknowledge their pain as well and help them grieve what cannot be, but also seek ways to not allow the pain to be more than it needs to be. I have to let them know that it is ok to be sad, mad, fustrated, etc, but it isn't ok to be mean, hateful, spiteful, etc. That there are good things to do with our hurt feelings when they come, and come they will, but that doesn't mean we have to let them own us. We can express the need for a hug, or go punch the punching bag for awhile. We can write a letter or a poem and then go for a walk or jog. I'm sure you get the idea. Most importantly we take it all, one day at a time, and many times just moments at a time. It is a challange, no doubt. Our kids don't always want to acknowledge that they are "responsible" for their own feelings, but we keep trudging on.
My heart breaks with you. I remember being like your 9yr old. I was the oldest but would worry and stress over how everyone else was hurting because of Mom. I was too afraid to go to my sisters and hold them as I wanted to and comfort them though. I was afraid of Mom too much. Instead, I hid in my room and cried for them and myself wishing I could make everything better...
And as teens both of my sisters have acted out, done things that they may never have done if we didn't have the disease in our lives. The anger my middle sister had was horrid. She and I were often at each other's throat when I lived at home. We felt so helpless and that was expressed in the anger I had.
This is a horrible disease that leaves no one untouched.
(((Bumpers))) Your post really hit me so close to home. It reminded me of what it was like growing up in a house with an active A. I intentionally used the word house because a home is where you feel unconditional love and acceptance. Your children are very lucky to have you because you have some recovery - don't doubt that it has an impact on them. Some of what your 13 year old is going through is developmental. I dare not use the word normal because that would be horribly insulting! Being that I have a 15 year old daughter myself I recognize the "I don't care" attitude. What I will share with you may help you feel like you aren't the only one with a bratty teenager.
Today - I should say VERY early this morning - I received a call from my 15 yr olds school regarding a suspicious attendance note. They asked me if she was out on 2 particular mornings and I told them that she was not at the dentist she should have been at school. I won't go into long details about all the repurcussions from the school except to say that now I have to call in her absences because they will no longer accept her attendance notes. Ok so I am obviously confused, worried, and pissed off all at the same time about this behavior. It wasn't such a big deal that she missed her tutorial, she did make it to her classes that day and she didn't skip school. I come to find out tonight when I get home from class that she had missed the bus on those two days and instead of getting in trouble from us she decided to forge the note. When I began to explain the repercussions on the house end for her actions all she said was "I don't care - I'm already grounded" The lack of remorse astounded me! I had to just excuse her to go to bed because I could no longer have a conversation with her with that attitude. After about 5 minutes I went in and kissed her on the forehead and told her that I will always love her and she sort of shrugged. I could tell she had been crying but I have to let her begin to work some of these things out for herself. It breaks my heart that she is upset. She says she is just upset because she has lost her social priviledges on the weekends for a few weeks - but I know it goes deeper than that. Teens especially want to show outward independence yet they are still so needing of love and acceptance from us, their parents. It just isn't cool to talk to your parents so you have to give them a lot of room to make their mistakes - as long as they are not unsafe - and continue to be that foundation of love and trust that they can come to when they really are desperate. I too wish it could be some other way??
I guess what I am trying to say in the shortened version is don't be afraid to be consistent and to continue to show love and support. Even though she may act like she doesn't want it and even at times reject it...she really does want it. Don't expect her to openly admit it, look for it in her actions. I am so sorry that you are feeling such turmoil at the moment you know you can chat with me anytime you need to big guy!!!
I see you grow everyday & you are becoming so serene & strong. Sounds like reaching out to your kids & talking to them, will really help, telling them they are responsible for their feelings & no one else's, what a great way to empower them & bring them into recovery along with you.
You are a great father & they will always remember you being there for them ~ I know it's tough right now, teenagers are difficult... guess it is hard for them to hear sometimes with all those hormones making them crazy.
I read once that children up to 18, need thier parents to give them emotional strokes... 'what happened today, how'd it make you feel?' We need so much guidance to have emotional intelligence. It definetely comes thru example & sharing, I'm so proud of you. I know when u make this kind of post u feel pretty low (at least that is how it is for me) but I can see your strength & willingness. You've taken to it like a fish to water, I'm honored to call you a friend.
love ya, -K
__________________
Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
Thanks for sharing this with us. Sometimes, in the chat room, we all get a bit flippant, letting off steam - doesn't mean we forget the pain.
Bringing up children is the hardest thing I have ever done, and, did not do it perfectly, and, had no training whatsoever! Also, if I had known then..... maybe would not have had children, but, am so glad I did. I did my best, with the knowledge and support I had, the love was never in question.
You are doing a great job - and, you are aware of 9 yr old taking on the rescuer role. When my kids were young, I wish I had truly learned about boundaries. Children need to feel secure, dont want to know details of parents' marriage, just that they are safe.
Only offering support Bobump, not advice. Sometimes, in meetings, I hear young wives/husbands share, have to put hand over my mouth, I want to tell them to run for the hills - leave the As to it, find recovery for you and your children. It is not that easy, as we know. All we have is the program, and the meetings. That will get you through. Whether to stay or go, the program will make you strong enough to make that decision, and make it work for you.
hey Bobump....I think you are a great dad, and you are the stable part in your family. I grew up too in an Active As house...and I agree it is not a home, because it never felt safe. What helped me was my mom..she was stable, and later on, she became very supportive, and otherwise there was constant chaos. Dad would rage when he was drunk, and also when he sobered up, and had the dreaded hangover...mom did what she could..and as I got older I understood more. Children have a hard time understanding this disease...alateen might help your older ones..but they have to want it...kids act out, because they don't know what else to do. and they are sooooo effected by the A parents drinking. No one understands unless you've been there...sounds like you are handling it very well...its so frustrating, I understand , and I feel how bad it can be. I remember going to a garage sale across the street from my house, and the lady was so nice and friendly...another neighbor came over, and said , isnt that your dad across the street..he was yelling and being agressive to people as usual..I sheepishly said , yea, and the garage sale lady gave me a mean look and walked back into her house, and refused to sell me anything..I was 14, and what did I do to her? I really hated my dad for that.
No one knows how deeply children are affected by the As behavior. You are wise in seeing the signs..and if counseling is necessary, then try that..even a pastor, you may have the kids talk to..You are a Great father, and its important that they know how much you care..and I think they see this in you..and its part of the testing. God Bless YOU...Bob...love and prayers, kat
tee hee. Through one of my contacts, I was able to get him into a referee program (basketball - his love). He took the course and aced it and began reffing. Getting the games is political, as you and I well know. He doesn't see this. Anyway, long story short ~ he's supposed to attend once a month meetings on Sundays and mostly they are boring. He stopped going because the info. they covered he had just finished with his class. The man that guided him through this process (my contact) saw me on Friday and said "I miss your son on Sundays." hmmmmmmmmmm. So I say to my son, "so and so misses you at the meetings." He told me they are useless, too early in the morning, blah blah blah. I listened and just simply said to him in the nicest way "Son, it's political. If you want to do more reffing, you've got to have your prescence felt. I only wanted to let you know that so and so missed you at the meetings." I fretted because I did not want him to blow his chance; however, it's out of my hands. Well lo and behold, without one more word from me (and I did not tell his father either) he got up early on Sunday morning and went to the meeting 