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Im reading James Frey's A Million Little Pieces. He's talking about how he doesnt believe in AA, doesnt need the Steps. Ive seen him on Oprah. If he can get better w/out a 12step program why cant everyone? Or was the Tao (?) his program? This may be part of the reason Im questioning AlAnon.
My sister in law is in recovery without AA and her psychs are amazed.
My SIL found a church that while not for me nor everyone, worked for her. When we talk about things, she mention things like that powerless ness, finding her God, looking at her good and bad character, making amends, ODAT.
I laugh when I talk to her, cause it's like speaking to someone who has program.
Don't get me wrong, you don't need a religion to work program. Your HP can be something totally different and it can still work. I'm not familiar w/ what worked for him, but things can work for different people.
Heck there are those that are in the minority but who have quit cold turkey. The other thing we have to realize is that alcohol is not the only problem in these peoples lives, just like it's not in Alanon. But what I like about alanon is so much of it can be applied outside of the disesase.
Bob
Editted to say without AA
-- Edited by bobump at 10:44, 2006-01-09
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You are a perfect child of God and God and I love you just the way you are! (added by me...in that special alanon way)
I read that book awhile ago and had the same thought. I've known three people who have decided "I can't drink anymore" and stopped cold turkey without a program for several years. Two of them started again at some point, both as closet alcoholics. Both now attend meetings. I think addiction is a huge battle to fight, and the support and accountability of a group is important for most. I also think there's more to recovery than not picking up and wonder how much he has evolved as a person since he stopped using. But if James Frey is doing well, I'm happy for him.
As alcoholics/addicts we are all sick, but one thing I realize is some are sicker than others. My ex has doubts about the need for AA because of people she knows who remain sober without AA: two neighbours and a co-workers wife. My sister was admitted to a rehab for addiction to RX medication; she was definately addicted, but I don't believe she is an addict. She is fine now without a 12 step program. Even in the big book they make a distinction between types of alcoholics.
Some, like me, have the craving and complusion to drink so badly, we cannot recover without the aid of our higher power and require AA. I really believe that there are others, while drinking or using heavily, may have other issues or are self medicating. They may not be true alcoholics in the sence that their brains are not wired like that. They may have trouble stopping but it is not the same as a true alcoholic trying to stay stopped. Of course if the 12 step programs work for a true alcoholic, there's no reason to believe that it wouldn't work for them also.
Who can distinguish between the two and figure out who can get by without a program? For me, at this point in my recovery, I have no desire to find out. The steps have shown me the way to lead a much more useful and richer life, and I am becoming what I hope is a better person. With all the problems I still have in my life, I sleep well at night because my conscience is clear, I'm honest with the people in my life, and I always try to do the right thing and ask for God's guidance. I have also met some of the best people through the program. Why would I want to give any of that up?
Everybody is different, some things work for others that don't for someone else. Alanon is a way of life, not a cure. It takes hard work and determination.
How does one question something they know very little about? Alanon is a program of recovery. It can be a way to live without an A in your life. It helps many to be able to live in this hard world with a better outlook.
Keeping it simple, does it really matter, slogans that help many who are depressed. Alanon has people who listen who understand and we can share our experience. For me hp is the creator. The Bible is my guide. Much of alanon is directly from the Bible.
Learning to take one day at a time, doing your best that day, thinking of footwork that will help the situation that day, helps so much. Turning your life to hp is awesome. Sometimes things are so hard, I gotta coast on thru. I know hp will take care of us, he always has.
The Serenity Prayer helps to remind us what is it we really can or cannot do. Makes us look at the situation in a healthy way.
I respect Oprah, but just becuz somene is on her show, does not mean they are real. Just like just becuz some one rights a book, it is true.
What have you learned so far about alanon? Does it fit in your life? Who is your A qualifier? Mine is my husband, then just basically all people.
People who come here like you, are great becuz you make us think. At least it does for me.
When I met my husband, we both drank a lot. I worked at a bar, he was a customer. This is probably one reason why his drinking and drug use raised no red flags for me - I drank as much as he did. An outsider looking at the two of us would not have known which was the alcoholic, would have assumed probably that it was both of us.
Around the time we got married, I really needed to lose some weight, so stopped drinking as a part of that. Got pregnant right after, then nursesd, then was pregnant again. By the time I was able to drink freely again, it was about five years later, and I had gotten out of the habit. Never got back in.
So, did I stop alcoholic drinking without a program? No. I was never an A to begin with, I was a heavy drinker running with a crowd of heavy drinkers. Since my husband has sobered up, we have talked about this, and have found so many differences in our attitude to drinking, even in those days, that we just didn't realize at the time.
So, maybe those who stop without any help were not really A's. Maybe they have something that works like a program (usually a religion) that helps them make a change in their approach to the world. Maybe, who knows, they are just so strong willed that they can stop on their own. Does it matter?
No one forces a person to come into the program. If we don't have what you want, if you are doing fine on your own, well, that's OK. This is not an evangelistic program, we are not out to convert the world. It works for me; if you want what I have, I'll show you how I got it. If you don't then why fight it? Just don't be part of it. Just because alanon is right for me, just because AA is right for my husband, doesn't mean it has to be right for you and yours.
have you read James Frey's book by any chance. He is the best writer in the world according to him and has a lot of other issues that certainly don't make him the worlds best candidate to say AA doesn't work. Maybe it didn't work for him but you can't say because it didn't work for one person the millions of others who have found it to benefit them are somehow not going the way that works for them.
Yeah some people do get sober without AA but it depends on what you term as sobriety. The stopping drinking is just one part, just as my detaching from the A and all the other A's in my life is just one part. Unfortunately as someone who grew up in a dysfunctional home I gathered a lot of patterns, behaviors that do not simply evaporate when I am in a "sober" environment. That is why I go to Al-anon not because I am waiting for the A to be sober. I am not waiting around for that. I am working on me and only me and if he gets sober that's great but I am not working my life around him or his issues anymore. My al-anon program is about me and the aftermath of living in a dysfunctional home for decades. For me it isn't about substances, I don't do any unless caffeine counts as one. I don't have the desire to be around anyone doing them either never did but I did feel comfortable for a long long time around people who were incredibly dysfunctional because that was simply all I ever knew on an intimate setting. Learning tools of how to deal with them is key for me and I learn those in Al-anon. In theory I could learn those tools and still more tools in other settings but I choose this one. If Al-anon isn't for you - you came and looked and gave it a try but I don't really have to justify why I come here.
As here as in quitting smoking some do it cold turkey, some get hypnotized, some get the patch.....you see where I am going? Each person does what works for them, period. Once again the choice is "yours". Alanon in itself has proven by millions of people around the world that it "does" work. It works if you work it and you are worth it!..............................................................gardengal
Of course Barbara. Some people can manage recovery quite nicely without a program like AA or AlAnon. I, myself, have issues with AlAnon. I do not adhere to all the tenets. I pick and choose. "Take what you like and leave the rest." The point being that we must do what works for us. What works for me in AlAnon is having the ability to talk to someone about my anger, fear, frustration, resentment, love, and life without fear of being judged.
Twenty some years ago I quit smoking...cold turkey. No patch, no gum, and no desire whatever to even be around anyone smoking to this day. But that technique does not work for all those who wish to quit. Same is true of any addiction, and alcoholism IS an addiction!
My sister sent me James Frey's book for Christmas, but I have yet to open it. Think I'll start on it today.
Very best wishes, Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Another point is drinking or using is only one symptom of being an A. A's lie, they are selfish, they have quirks about them that just stopping drinking won't help.
Many times you read on here, he/she was better when she was drinking.
Part of a program is working on self. Being honest, being able to face trauma in a healthy way, a "program of recovery" is a lifetime goal. I saw my A develop' his program. He spoke to hp every morn, he stopped and helped people in need, he did not lie anymore. He worked hard to be a better person than the one the dang disease made him be.
drinking or using can be a habit just like anything else. does not mean you are an A. Someone brought that out too. i know of people who never used and are A and also not very nice people.
It is such a complicated disease. So complicated that the general public, including most doctors, do not understand it.
I haven't read that book, and have no real interest in it....
What I would say, is that we are very similar to our A's, in many ways, and that includes our desire to find the "silver bullet" or easy solution to fix our many woes.... Al-Anon and AA are long term programs of recovery, that take a ton of commitment and hard work.... These programs work (if we work them), but they are not easy...
If you want to try another avenue, then go for it.... the statistics do NOT back up these non-12 step approaches, as a general rule of thumb, but there are some who get what they need/want out of many types of programs. Who knows, maybe it will work for you.
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
It has been a long time since I read James Frey's book. I do remember thinking while reading it that in his own way he set up a porgram, it is not AA or any other available out there, and it works for him. I have the belief that if someone wants a certain thing for themselves they will find a way of achieving it.
I refinished my kitchen floor, I could have followed the standard and rented a floor sander zipped through and been done. Instead I used my limited knowledge and scaped the old tile off, used a glue remover, lived with plastic on the floor for 6 months, then used a hand sander for 2 months until I could put the finish on. Can't say I would do it again, it was what I could afford and in the end I had want I wanted. Any professional would have either laughed or been horrified by my way.
It comes down to personal choice, trial and error. Unfortunately unlike my floor, these kinds of choices can't be covered by more tile if they don't work out the way we want them to. There is more pain involved than a few blisters.
I have been meaning to get his second book, I read it is the story of the friendship he built with another man he met in rehab. Curious to see what kind of support system they had between them.
Why can't I? Because I fall into old patterns if I am not following a program that reminds me not to. Because I need to know that there are others out there that share my story, pain, recovery. And also I belong here because maybe something I say one day might really help someone else who needs it right at that moment. I hate to think of anyone feeling as alone as I did.
We all have different ways of dealing with life and its problems. Alanon or AA may not be for everyone.
When I had my children I bottle fed the first three, because everyone talked me out of nursing. When I had my three younger ones I chose to nurse. I went to Laleche league and was very discouraged. They spoke of things that eould not fit in my life. I am basically shy and nursing in public wouldn't be for me. I also cannot feed on demand as I drive a school bus, and went back to work.
A very wisw lactation nurse told me to take what I wanted and leave the rest. She said to take laleches program and fit it into my lifestyle. I ended up pumping milk, using a small amount of formula when necessary and feeding with a bottle at times I could not get privacy. It gave me and my little guys the advantages of nursing while still letting me be me.
Alanon and AA are very similar, we can take what we like and leave the rest. We can fit it into our lives. The point of it is to help us live happy and healthier lives, however we can accomplish it. You will find puratins in every program, someone who follows the model to the letter, this may work for them, you need to find what works for you.
Even someone who can stop without a program, may be without even realizing it, using AA as a model for recovery in some form or another.
it all boils down to doing what works for you. If you are happy with Alanon, then why change, if you feel you need to explore other options, then by all means do what is right for you.
i tried everything from white witchcraft to christianity, and nothing worked for me but this program....
i think what works for 1 may not necessarily mean it works for all....we are on separate journeys/ experiences, and for me??? the practice of metaphysics and this program is what is healing for me...
the bottom line for all those i see doing this (making it w/out the program??) i see the common denometer is TOTAL honesty with self / universe.....i think pretty much ANYthing can be fixed/ mitigated/ helped with TOTAL honesty with self/ universe, and willingness to be OPEN to change.......just my take, rosie
Sometimes I feel like I find Oprah's approach grossly simplified. I know that is what makes her show so telegenic. A friend of mine said a lot of women prisoners in jail just worship Oprah and that few of them do the work, make the links from stuff she does on the show. Because after all the processes she sometimes describes like the sexual assault victim meeting the perp and forgiving him on the show are like um "speeded up". In a normal process it might take a sexual assault victim a lifetime to forgive someone and then it wouldn't probably be on camera, on Oprah its in 2 weeks.
I do like many of the issues Oprah brings up and some of the things she has taken on. At the same time it is television and an author promoting their books isn't going to be brutally honest they are after all on a marketing trip to promote their book not in a therapist office. I think both Oprah and Dr. Phil (and a friend of mine really gets a lot out of Dr. Phil) have their uses but people really shouldn't be sharing their issues in front of millions of people it is boundaryless and it is not that good for people on a long term basis. They have to go back to their community/jobs with everyone knowing stuff they don't need to know. I think its great to bring up issues but people who don't have boundaries should not be exploited either.
You can cut down a tree with a hand saw, too. Doesn't make it a good idea. ;)
People did get sober before AA was around, AA was "just" an attempt by alcoholics to explain how they'd gotten sober and to share the experience with others to help them do the same. I've got a grandfather who had a raging drinking problem in the 1940s who sobered up without the help of the program, probably because it was not well established yet. He is still sober today.
Well I think if James works for you = do it . The only problem with books is that they eventually come to an end and for most so does the recovery.
In Al-Anon I am reminded that I am my biggest problem, most days and it is reinforced in every meeting. and our program never quits been goin for 55 yrs now and it works.
It takes alot of effort to recover from this damn disease I assume for the rest of my life -I have made some wonderful friendships in this program people I wouldnt have met if i had not joined and stayed, and most of all I have found ME . Al-Anon is a win , win situation for me, with or with out him I will be ok. I have found that there was alot wrong with me and mythinking prior to getting here I am a better person today as I work this program my life just gets better. It works if you work it .
thanks to this program I am a better more respectful wife- mother & daughter and I have finally learned how to be a Friend.
