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When do you believe your "A". When he's been drinking or when he's sober. And can you even tell? I don't mean things like lyring about taking out the trash or not. But when he tells you that he loves you and things like that. Is "En Vino Veritas" true???
Hmm... perhaps I might be a bit jaded on this one...... but I think the answer to your question is really tough, with active A's..... My experience is that they really struggle with "honesty to others", cuz a large part of their problem, is an inability to be "honest with themselves".
I don't think they are always manipulative, per se, but I DO think their disease wins, over all else, while they are active..... so they very well might mean that they love you when they say it, but their actions will support that they love their addiction more.... It's a really interesting question, as we often find ourselves in positions of trying to decipher their words, whether they are positive (I love you, and need you) or negative (I hate you, and want out). The reality is, I don't think THEY even know what the truth is, when they are in their disease.
Just my two cents
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Thanks for the insight. My "A" is really jerking me around right now and his words and actions are NOT matching up. His roommate is a dear friend of mine and has also known my "A" for 10 years. He clams that you should NEVER beleive a word that comes out of his mouth. However he was really surprised at the things I chared with him that my "A" told me, becuase he said that he's never heard my "A" say anything like that ever to anyone before. So even the person that has deep insight into my "A" is thrown on this one.
Ans yes, I agree that they don't really know what is the truth and what is a lie with them. And that is one of my request is that he be honest with himself.
Toby Rice, who wrote the Getting Them Sober Series, put it this way: we tend to believe what alcoholics say (and not what they do) and they believe what we do (and not what we say). She recommends that we start really seeing and believing what they DO, not what they say. Also, that we stop just saying what we're going to do (for example, setting boundaries), and start doing it because this will communicate to the A more strongly.
I understand where you are coming from with this question. In my situation, my husband is an alcoholic, addict and bipolar. I've come to believe this ... anything he says can be true or untrue, at any given time. He says he loves me that never changes, and it is true. He has also looked at me and our home, pets etc and said he didn't want any of it, it is also true. Living with a person who is not in control of their mind and decisions is hard enough without trying to figure out what is or isn't true to them. I have learned to look inside myself and feel the truth, not rely on what someone else says or does. My truth is inside me. Since I have been practicing this I am amazed at how often I can now sense the "real" truth in many situations, involving my A and outside of that relationship. Take care
Thanks Tom and BlueCloud, both your posts made an impression on me.
I agree with Tom, they may say they love you but their actions say they love alcohol more. You can watch the craving start, build, and the eventual cave-in, sometimes followed by an empty "I'm sorry", or some other lame excuse. My personal opinion is to not take anything said whilst he is under the influence seriously. My "safety net" as it were. So far, it has kept me going.
I really like the idea that "actions speak louder". And right now that's kind of helping to guide me. Sometimes it soo hard to see things from the outside.
I can only relate that in my relationship, when my wife is drinking, I know I can't believe ANYTHING she says, and that, under the influence, she will be prone to say some of the most outrageous, outlandish, and downright nasty things (which, of course, she won't remember in the morning). I decided a long time ago that I wasn't going to talk to her when she was inebriated. Since she always goes somewhere (usually, to her sister's) when she decides to "tie one on," these conversations typically happen over the phone, and are usually ended by me hanging up after calmly (as possible) telling her, "I don't want to talk to you drunk, call me back tomorrow when you're sober." To the point where lately, she won't even bother to call if she's out on a binge.
Whether to believe them or not when sober (or "dry") is another thing altogether, and much trickier. I've posted previously that my wife is perfectly willing to lie about things for which there is no reward to be gained for lying, nor anything to be lost by telling the truth. Why they (alcoholics) do this is a mystery that probably cannot be understood. I suspect it's because they've done so much lying to support their addiction (and/or avoid the consequences of it) that it becomes second nature. There may be other theories that hold more water psychologically, as well. Who can tell for sure? I've given up playing psychoanalyst.
The advice posted above to "believe what they do, not what they say," seems sound, and is probably the message I've been needing to get. I would add to this, "believe what they don't do," also; I for one am tired of giving her credit for things she's "gonna do" (go to meetings, look for a job, etc.). If she was serious about these things, she would do them, not talk about them. I need to remember this going forward, because lately I seem to have been basing much of my outlook upon "how the alcoholic" is doing, rather than how I'm doing. This is ultimately foolish. I have no control over other people, not even in my own mind.
