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Post Info TOPIC: Considering an Intervention...need help, advice, pointers please!
PP


~*Service Worker*~

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Considering an Intervention...need help, advice, pointers please!


This is so difficult for you; I feel your anguish and I am sorry.  Try as we might you will only drive yourself crazy trying to change the dynamics between your mom/dad and your mom/her addictions.  I have a similar situation in our family with my father, although his addictions are anger (at times rage), and narcissism; which has escalated with age.  My mom had enabled him for years and now she says she is ready to leave at 83 (she believes the threat will keep him in line)!  It is because of my integration of al anon into my life that I can love him and her despite their behaviors, walk away from him without guilt and hang out with him when I feel like it.  I am close in proximity to them so I visit often.  My husband and I have an agreement when he begins his crap we do an eye thing and politely say "we gotta go"!  My suggestion for your sanity is to attend al anon meetings, learn tools for your recovery and keep coming back here!  Hugs



-- Edited by PP on Tuesday 26th of March 2013 08:02:08 AM

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Paula



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Hello everyone. I'm posting today because my family, similar to many of yours, is suffering the affects of living with an alcoholic and addict.

My mother as been on anti-depressants and valium for 23years. About 15 years ago, she added alcohol to her list of coping devices. Our family has swept it all under the rug up until recently when my mother made a random decision to enter herself into an inpatient rehab. Sadly, she is in need of a serious dental surgery which we've known would require her to stop drinking for a prolonged and indefinite period of time. The sad part isn't so much that she needs a surgery, but that I suspect that her choice to confront her alcoholism was based on "consequence-driven" rationale.

She was detoxed from the valium and alcohol at the detox center. Her valium was replaced by a non-addictive substitute. She was then moved to the rehab we had set up for her, and it turned out that they didn't feel their facility was fit to deal with my mother because it was confirmed by the doctors that she had an eating disorder. They moved her to another facility(which she screamed and fought over) that was better suited to deal with her specific needs (people who suffer from addiction, mental health disorders, and eating disorder). She felt cornered when she was called out on her eating habits, and she basically insisted that she come home. She screamed "abuse!" and "neglect" were occurring at the rehab... but again I suspect that her desire to leave occurred because she was confronted with a dismal reality... that she was going to have to do a lot more work than she ever thought, and unearth a lot of unresolved issues that she dismisses as no big deal. She even still insists that since she hasn't had a drink, she is recovered. She doesn't feel that there is more to recovery other than removing alcohol. Her problem was she needed dental surgery and quitting drinking was the solution. No drink= problem solved.

Before she came home, we set boundaries for her about what we expected upon her return. Coming home wasn't going to mean that we were going to let her recovery slip away, or allow her to say "oops forget it guys, I don't want to stop." The deal was she would come home, be transparent and authorize family into all doctors appts, she'd go to 6 mtngs/ per wk, attend therapy for her eating issues, make a schedule and stick to it, etc. No doubt she would have signed off on anything just attain that plane ticket home. As expected, she agreed to the terms, and my father flew her home.

She has been home for 2 weeks now. She has since resumed her valium use, which she was 20 days detoxed from, and is now doing twice the amount that she was taking pre-detox(she had been getting issued 20mgs a day but only taking 10mgs bc she feared taking more an mixing in her daily dose of alcohol. Now she is taking 20mgs bc her dr thinks that was what she was taking before). She lies to her shrink and refuses my admittance into her appts. Although she has maintained sobriety from alcohol for the past 30 days, she is on a higher dose of valium now than she was before she went into detox.

I've taken myself temporarily away from my work to assist at home since my family all have jobs that they cannot afford time away from. I've been urging my mother to read books on meditation, spirituality, the AA books, etc. She has no interest. Despite her promise to make 6 mtngs a week, we have only made it to 5 mtngs over the past 2 weeks since she has returned. As each day passes, she keeps trying to find ways to not go to AA... she complains defensively that "she's not like those people." I know she should get to the mtngs, even if she isn't really into it at first. I ask her what she wants to do for her recovery if not AA, and she has no answer other than, "I'll find the power in myself. I can do this on my own."

I've begun to make more serious ultimatums in more stressed conversations recently. I told her that if she doesn't stick to her new downsized commitment to attend 4 mtngs per week, that I will no longer be involved in her life. Tonight was a major fallout as she's trying to refuse to live up to that commitment, and doesn't want to go to her mtng tomorrow.

Here is the yolk of the current debacle: If she refuses for the next week or two to do anything proactive to repair her damaged mind, do we sit back and watch? I tend to think of that as enabling. So then is the right step to have a family style intervention? Is it time for us to lay down clear boundaries as a family and start coming to terms with the idea of possibly having to remove her from our homes and lives? Is an intervention too severe of a method for someone who has been sober from alcohol but has been living on a higher dose of valium?

Additionally, my father is having major issues with enabling. Does anyone have any literature they can recommend? He is gong to al-anon mtngs, but he hasn't yet found someone to speak with one-on-one for advice. He does say that he will leave my mom if needed, but when he is in front of her, he will not say that. He whispers it to me behind the scenes, despite my telling him that these are boundaries that he must make her aware of.

Any advise would be sooo much appreciated! Thanks for taking the time to read and advise!!!



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~*Service Worker*~

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Are you going to alanon too? That would be helpful. I think removing her from your life is pretty harsh cuz you are really thinking it will shape her up when it really could just lead to more self pity and an even more profound relapse. When you watch shows like "Intervention" they usually don't show the ones that don't work. There is at least and equal shot you will do an "intervention" and it won't work....and if you don't stick to those boundaries then she won't believe anything you say...so be prepared.

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~*Service Worker*~

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Welcome to MIP, and glad you found us....

My personal opinion is that I am not a fan/supporter of interventions.... 

This is my rationale...

I am approximately 30 pounds overweight....

I "want" to take some magical diet pill, so that I can change absolutely nothing, and get down to my desired weight, without putting in the work.... I would humbly suggest that this "quick fix" option is similar to an intervention....

I know that what I really need to do is stop making excuses, and get back to paying attention to diet and exercise, and I can lose this weight much more slowly, but also much more permanently.... It takes a lifestyle change, and a long term commitment towards my goal....  This option is much more like what I would consider "true recovery", where the A needs to change his lifestyle, embrace a longterm plan of sobriety (likely AA, but addressing more than just "stopping drinking"), etc...

 

Hope that helps

Tom



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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

"What you think of me is none of my business"

"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"

 

 

 

 



~*Service Worker*~

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I know you are ready to do anything to get her to stop, but the unfortunate truth is that there is nothing other people can do to get her to stop.  You have seen this yourself.  If there were, there would be no addicts in the world. 

Interventions have a high failure rate.  It sounds as if you essentially have already had an intervention, so this is probably obvious.  You could certainly have another one, so that you can know that you did everything you could.  But it sounds as if your mother is not prepared to give up her addictions, and everything depends on whether she wants to.  And no one else can make her want to.

The first thing that might help is if you yourself found a good Al-Anon meeting (they say to try six because they're all different).  Read all the literature, read the posts here, find a sponsor, start working the steps.  This will transform your life regardless of what your mother decides.  I know this sounds dramatic but it has happened to many people on these boards.

The second thing is for you and your family, with as much recovery as you all can get (experience in Al-Anon, counselors who deal with addiction, etc.), to decide what you will do if your mother does not choose recovery.  Kicking her out is one option, of course.  There will also be intermediate options.  For instance, paying for her own small apartment and letting her find her own way.  Or she might stay in the house with your father but they would lead essentially detached lives.  What options can the family think of, that are acceptable for the family, that will protect all of you from her addiction and her chaotic behavior?  That is the most important thing.

What we in Al-Anon have found is that ultimatums don't work. Ultimatums are trying to change the other person's behavior, and we are powerless over others' behavior.  What works are boundaries.  Those are to protect us.  So an ultimatum would be: "You have to stop using drugs by the end of the month or we will kick you out."  A boundary would be: "We can't stand the chaos and pain of living with a drug addict.  If you decide you don't want to work a program of recovery, we'll have to live apart from you.  Since you feel recovery is not right for you, this means that by the end of the month you'll need to find a new place to live." 

All of it is hard.  I hope you'll keep coming back.  Take care of yourself.



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Newbie

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Thanks so much for the feedback thus far. I'd like to throw a few more tidbits in.

1) Despite her dishonesty to her doctor about her previous dosage of valium, and despite the fact that she is on a higher dosage now, the doctor is in fact on a schedule to ween her off. It could take several months if we are to detox her safely, according to what the doctor and other literature have said. So she will be on a non-narcotic substitute within the next few months.

2) I've had several years go by without speaking to my mother in the past. It wasn't relate to her drug abuse, but a family matter. I have had to give my mother up in the past and be apart from her. I've had to come to terms before that I may never speak with my mother again. I was always ok with committing to that and the reason is bc I've seen the sadness and destruction that comes from being around her, and I made a conscious decision for myself to remove myself because I did not want my future family to be around such an influence. That is what I consider a "me" choice, not a choice that I'm using to coerce her into recovery. My bottom line is that if she refuses recovery, I in all honesty am prepared to relinquish the relationship for the sake of the future of our family(kids and grandkids to come). If ultimatums are designed to influence someone, that was not my intention. Rather, I just wanted to lay out the honest plan that I have moving forward.

3) Additionally, from what I've read, interventions and AA have low success rates. I have a boyfriend and his whole family who have been successful in AA, which is why I tend to lean toward the program for my mother's recovery. But, if AA and interventions both have low success rates, then it just means that interventions are equally as viable an option as AA. Is that wrong to think? It seems like no treatment offers particularly high success rates, and so wouldn't it be best to assume that any treatment may offer possible solutions? Again, a bottom line... is that my mom has no concept or desire to seek or maintain any treatment at the moment.

I do like the idea mentioned above about the parents getting separate living arrangements, which is what my father and I have been discussing. My mother doesn't work, and has not worked at all in the past 15years. Additionally, she has no car, although she could easily take a bus. If my father left, he would leave her in their rental apartment, stop paying the bills, and leave it to my mom to figure out. The most likely outcome is that my mom will not find work to support herself, and will likely be evicted once the rent goes unpaid for a month or two. She would have a month or two to figure out her own path/plan.

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~*Service Worker*~

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AA and interventions are not commensurate.  What I mean is that people do AA, or an intervention and then AA, or an intervention and then rehab and then AA.  AA is a longterm program and an intervention is a shortterm event that is aimed at convincing the addict to go into recovery.  So you can certainly do an intervention.  (You can't "do" AA for her, of course -- she has to choose that for herself.)  But I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say that they both have low effectiveness so you might as well do one as the other.  One is not a replacement for the other.

The reason AA has a low success rate is not because it doesn't work, but because addiction is so powerful.  There are other longterm recovery options and rehabs out there and some of them report higher success rates than AA.  It is hard to know because exactly how you measure "success" is so difficult to know.  One year, five years, ten years?  People who attend longer than six months?  People who attend more than one meeting?  They all have different success rates.  The advantage to AA is that it's free and it's pretty much everywhere, every hour of the day. But as with any kind of recovery program, it works best if the addict is strongly and internally motivated.  Hugs.



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~*Service Worker*~

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WarmHands wrote:

Again, a bottom line... is that my mom has no concept or desire to seek or maintain any treatment at the moment.


 

Considering this bottom line -- and this is often the bottom line for most active alcoholics / addicts -- then all I can say is do what you need to do to take care of yourself.

Keep in mind that wanting enablers in your mother's life to change (like your father), is really no different from wanting the addict / alcoholic to change. Plain and simple, wanting people outside of you to change typically is a path to utter frustration for both parties involved.

If your father is in Al-Anon, he will figure out what his boundaries are for himself, and when he's ready to act on them, he will in his own time.

Get to some Al-Anon meetings for you. You sound like you're pretty capable of detaching from your mother's side of things if it becomes necessary - you may also have to detach with love from your other family members and allow them to work out their personal relationships with your mom on their own. Detaching doesn't mean ending contact, mind you, but it does mean stepping back and letting them figure out what works for them on their own.



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