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My husband has been in recovery for a little over a year now . . . he is an acoholic and addict. I met him when he was clean, then he started using again, and now he's clean again. It's been an up and down roller coaster. When he first became sober again, he was loving and close and talked with me . . . and slowly it has eroded again . . . he is once again in his shell where I can't touch him. He thinks of it as boundaries . . . but it really is just walls. My ever attempt to be close to him is viewed as me interfering in his life. He seems to just want to be left alone. All he does is stay in chat rooms for alcoholics; and any attempt for me to suggest us doing some things together is again viewed as just an intrusion. I'm tired of dealing with the alcoholics' selfishness and avoidance of intimacy. He is so defensive, we can't even talk about it. So, I decided to just work on me and live my life and started doing some things just for me . . . like joining a fitness club, going out with friends, etc. But, the thing is, I'm married and if I'm going to be married I'd like to have a close relationship with my husband . . . I don't just want a roommate. He even shuns away from physical contact. I know I am not perfect by any means and have been emotionally up and down throughout all of the rehab, recovery, etc., but he uses this as an excuse for not being able to be close to me. He throws everything back at me and says things like, "who would want to be close to you." So then I tiptoe around and try to make everything on a nonemotional even ground; all smiles; but he still will find a reason to get angry with me for invading his space.
I just don't know if this is going to work. I don't know how to be with someone who doesn't want to live close to me, but just with me. I'm miserable and sad and don't know what to do. I thought once we got through all of the drug using things would be better, but they're not . . . just a different set of problems.
I think the only thing keeping me here is my belief that God does not like divorce and somehow I'm just supposed to sleep in the bed I made. But I lived with an alcoholic mother and a cold uncaring father and feel just the same nervousness I did growing up. I don't want to live the rest of my life like this.
First of all, welcome to MIR, and I hope you find lots of great friends, love, and support on this site....
My experience was that sobriety wasn't any better, and I had to finally come to grips with the fact that there were many things wrong with my marriage, over and above my wife's alcoholism... In fact, I would suggest that the sobriety was even tougher, in some respects, as they no longer would "pass out and leave us alone", as pathetic as that might sound....
I wasn't able to handle the same stuff that you are currently struggling with, and ended up ending my marriage about 2-1/2 years ago.... I think the martyr in me likes to believe that I "stuck with her until she got sober", and then felt okay about leaving when she could once again fend for herself.
There ARE success stories out there - I won't kid you that they are the majority, but they DO happen. I think, for the most part, it takes a lot longer than we originally anticipate.....
Keep working on you, and the right answers, for you, will become more clear.
Take care
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
"He throws everything back at me and says things like, "who would want to be close to you." So then I tiptoe around and try to make everything on a nonemotional even ground; all smiles; but he still will find a reason to get angry with me for invading his space."
((((( Hugs ))))) Krise,
This really hit me hard, I can't believe some of the abusive things they say to us. He sounds like he might be "dry" but I wouldn't call it sobriety. I don't see how attacking you is helping his recovery.
I wonder if you have had much therapy or any Al-Anon yourself? You are doing the right thing by focusing on yourself & it does sound like based on what you sd about your parents, that you are re-living it.
I am an ACOA & co-dep, grew up in dysfunctional family & my entire family tree is laden with every form of abuse imaginable. I encourage you to come into a meeting 9 am/pm M-F EST, we have weekend mtgs too, in our chat room.
You are not alone, you didn't cause his problems & you cannot control someone else... however, you can control yourself.
Welcome to our wonderful Board & site full of experience, strength & hope.
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
Welcome. I saw alot of my own situation in your post. My husband will do the same things sometimes. In my situation I have learned to just be me, no tiptoeing no trying to be something I am not ... his pattern stays the same some days he is happy and some days he is not, it's just easier on me to know I am not trying to be something other than what or who I am ~laugh~ I think I managed to confuse myself in that sentence. It is easier to remind myself of the truth that I am stable when I am not trying to please someone who is not stable.
The part I really identify with is about being a half of a marriage. I grew up in a divorced home, but watching my grandparents have card parties with other couples and build a life together as a couple. They each had their own life too but they had a shared life to enhance it. I always thought I would have this in my marriage. I tried hard to make it that way in the beginning even doing things I did not enjoy with people I did not respect or even like. And he tried to share the things I like with people I enjoyed. Eventually my resentment towards alcohol, drugs and his friends made it so I could not tolerate being involved in those things. And alcohol, drugs and guilt made it hard for him to do the things I enjoyed with the people I would choose to be around. Now I have little to no contact with his family and to be honest I don't want any if possible. He has no friends to do stuff with that do not use. My family and friends are always happy to see us having a good time, it's hard to plan something when I can not know in advance if I am going to attend with a happy person or a stick in the mud or go alone. At least I am to the point I no longer make excuses, it's just the way it is. We do enjoy many things in common together and as long as we are alone I can be reasonably sure of a decent mood lately. I am grateful for it, even though it feels isolating sometimes.
I can live this way at least for now, I grieve for the way it could be, and sometimes I have hope we can find a shared interest with others that makes us both feel good. I wish you peace, take care.
I can certainly empathise with a lot of stuff you have written. Unfortunately my boyfriend is not in any kind of sober program and i doubt he would even recognise he has a problem even though he has hepatitis c and has been told not to drink or do drugs. Indeed I think he is in considerable denial about every aspect of his life. Today he told me he wanted tyelenol when tyelonol is contraindicated for people with liver problems but then that is the elephant in the living room that is not to be mentioned. I no longer obsess about his health, his denial, his taking care of himself because on some levels he takes care of himself far better than I do. I have my own denial and my own elephants in the living room but they do not include substance abuse that's all.
I think for some alcoholics there is a long grief period after they give up alcohol. I have seen people with 10 years sobriety lament that they cannot drink anymore as though they are talking about the love of their life. You may find that experience if you go to an open AA meeting and that could be some of what your husband is dealing with and it could not be. I have heard that the early years of sobriety are tough stuff and I know people who never work the steps and it seems to be tougher for them. At the same time I am not going to be in a place where I say whether someone is sober or not or working the steps in the appropriate fashion. I have my own issues with keeping to the steps and keeping on the program although I do my best best.
Clearly he is reaching out for support although he has walled you off from that process which must be hurtful to you. While I have not been subject to substance abuse I do have issues that I am addicted to like fantasy of a happy life and subjects like that. I have many many issues from a childhood full of abuse and grief and deprivation therefore it is rather hard to bear having such a challenging relationship. But I am not even sure anymore what the optimal relationship would be for me in dealing with what I have to today but I do try to reach out get support, challenge and understanding of where I am at and how I am faring and that is a great great challenge.
At the same time I have to say that the frustration, anger, grief and deprivation I experiericne in this relationship are very very familiar to me. I know how to act within them to some measure as I've dealt with them all my life with my family of origin. On some level it is very safe, very familiar and the same old path I've always been on on another level its inherently dissatisfactory and disappointing. But i have to own my part in it since I make up 50% of the relationship. I know somewhat how to be within a dysfunctional family. For me the definitions of joy were routed in fantasy rather than reality because I did not have the skills or the structure in my life to live with and care for someone functional. I do not blame myself necessarily for this but I did know how to overlook many many of the cues my boyfriend had about his past life and the way he lived when I met him. Even when he was being loving and kind he had a tendency to be manipulative and controlling I was so bowled over by the loving and kind I was not looking at the sulking and the withdrawal he did when he did not get what he wanted. I had no limits, few boundaries and I "hoped" that everything would work out if I worked hard enough at it. Clearly that was not a very mature response to some of his acting out. Of course I was also aware that he lived in a fair amount of chaos as well and I set limits by screaming and shouting and insisting. I thought that was a way of managing his chaos eroding into my life. Of course that did not work for long and I don't think it worked at all in any respect really he continued on in his chaos and he continued to use and use and use and cause more chaos only now he had me to blame.
I know I could spend a lot of time insisting that if I were not with him that my life would be hunky dory but I am not sure it would. I think I would still have a lot of issues, when I get to the point where I feel like I have worked through enough of those issues and there is very little for me to gain from being in this relationship maybe I'll be able to be clear and structured and present enough to have the kind of relationship I think is healthy. Right now I am not sure I could distinguish what a healthy relationship is from a fantasy one. Clearly I pursued a fantasy one with my boyfriend for a long long time now I try to give some attention to the one I can have that doesn't involved my overinvolving or under involving myself in his issues.
I've asked this question a lot too. My addict husband is currently not using-- But everything is not better. Yeah, he feels sorry for himself that he cannot amuse himself chemically without consequence. Today he laid on the couch for about 10 out of the 12 hours that he was up. Didn't help with dinner, giving kids rides, getting kids to bed--nothing. Do I have resentment? Hell yeah! but he's not getting high too and I am honestly thankful for that. I've had to figure out if getting high made him an inconsiderate lazy person-- or if getting high was just another symptom of his self centerness. to be continued. I think it gets better in some ways when they are sober--but there are new challenges as well. Like everyone said, you are only 50% of the marriage--only be willing to shoulder 50% of the responsiblility for making at work too! take care- Jeanne
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In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip.- Daniel L. Reardon
You certainly are not alone in your feelings and it's ok to feel them. Your story brought be back to this time last year. My husband of 9 years was in a fast downward spiral. He had been using at differing degrees for most of our marriage and long before as well, but 2004 was the year he really began falling apart. He was out of control using and I had finally hit my bottom so to speak. I left after he shoved me into a book shelf in front of our 3 year old son. He was beligerant, abusive, frightening, and someone I felt I no longer knew. My husband hit bottom 3 days after I left and he ended up in the ER. I came back and 2 weeks later he was in a rehab program. That was Feb. 22, 2004 and it was the beginning of a much better way of life.
All of what you described I had felt at some point in our marriage (detaching from the alcoholic, wanting to be close and they aren't willing, aren't available, but really aren't able, wanting do your own thing in spite of them, etc...) and I can't tell you how many times I planned my divorce only to get some little glimmer of hope that he was getting better (using less, using less often, would see more of him, would get the tearful apologies and promises to do better, etc...) and then I thought everything will be fine. And so the roller coaster ride went on for 9 years. What kept me there? Why didn't I leave sooner? Why did I stay? I was asked this often enough and actually get offended by it. I downplayed the situation. I denied it was happening. I'm pretty sure I stayed because I was just as sick as my husband. I grew up in a family with an alcoholic father (of whom I never actually saw take even a sip of alcohol, but it could be smelled a mile away!). My parents divorded after 31 years. My dad never got help and though my mom reached out for help she had alreadsy mentally/emotionally divorced my dad many years before it actually happened. I was prepped for an alcoholic relationship. That still always gets me...wouldn't we KNOW and alcoholic when we saw one and steer clear! Anyway, all the history aside I am today grateful to be where I am - today. My husband is working a great program. He attends a meeting everyday. He attends a men's step study. He goes to individual counseling twice a month and group therapy twice a month. He is committed and doing what he is supposed to do. He listens to his sponsor. He sticks with the winners. He is doing his part as am I. I would say we are one of the winners and I truly feel that is because of the wonderful programs out there. We are showing progress individually and as a whole.
Interesting question. I know that I can't answer the question as a 'blanket' response, but I'd be happy to give my opinion based on my own experience.
My AH has been sober for two years. I asked him to leave 2 years & 2 months ago. I tried for a long time to "get him to see" what I needed him to do in order for me to stay 'plugged in' to the marriage. To no avail. Until, of course, he saw from my actions that I was completely serious. Unfortunately, in my case, when I asked him to leave...I was already done. I had learned how to detach too well over the years and sadly; it wasn't 'with love' anymore.
I waited two years after the seperation to observe positive change in him. I thought that since he quit drinking, was attending AA meetings, going to therapy, and reaching out for help -- that there was no doubt I'd witness positive change within a reasonable amount of time. This would help me determine whether or not I could re-invest my heart and try to rebuild the respect that I had completely lost for him over the years.
The arrogance remains to this day. He attempted to make amends, but at the same time he was doing that...he continued to manipulate, bad-mouth, and seek to blame me for his sad state of affairs. I continued to trust my gut. I had spent enough time feeling the pity and the self-centeredness that surrounded him. Tired of taking on the guilt.
Consistent and authenitc humility has yet to set in. I no longer struggle trying to convince myself that I 'should' be happy now that he's not drinking. I know what sobriety needs to look like for me to hold on, and he's not even close. I filed for divorce last week.
Is sobriety any better? I think it's an individual thing. What do you want/need out of the relationship? I think once we realize that 'it is what it is'...and we come to terms (acceptance) with what's in front of us...then it's something we can honestly evaluate based on our own situations. Some people are simply relieved that the alcoholic isn't drinking! Some people hope for better communication, amends, closeness...etc. Sometimes it happens, sometimes not.
I reminded myself every day during the two years of seperation to look at 'just the facts', and then made a logical (for me) decision...based on them.
It's the hardest thing I've ever had to go through, and I hate everything about this disease!
I wish you all the best finding your personal answer to this great question.
"I think the only thing keeping me here is my belief that God does not like divorce and somehow I'm just supposed to sleep in the bed I made."
WOW! I read your post carefully, trying to get some insight. I think it is not unusual for an alcoholic, even a recovering one, to be distant in the ways you describe. You are on the right track by getting into taking care of you. That's great.
I have quoted your post above, and I am dumbfounded that anyone could really believe that a forgiving, loving, benevolent God would want any of His children to lead a life of misery just because He, "does not like dicorce." It doesn't make sense to me. Keep looking through the Bible, and you are sure to come by God's wish that His children be happy.
If you want to stay with your A, do it because YOU have made the choice to stick it out. Don't do it because God would disapprove if you didn't. You'll end up not only hating the A, but hating God too for having hung this albatross around your neck for all time.
I wish you well, and my response to you is a caring one. Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I too grew up in an alcoholic family. I always felt nervousness around my husband even though he is not an alcoholic or addict and is gentle and kind. I think this is very common for adult children of alcoholics to have problems with intimacy because of our background. I can't speak from experience but I know that I feel I bring extra emotional fragility into my relationship that would not permit me to deal with the continual verbal and emotional abuse living with an alcoholic brings. Spouses of alcoholics have to have more strength than I have. I read the posts here and am amazed by the strength these spouses have. People from normal childhoods can get worn down pretty far by an alcoholic from what I hear; coming from a dysfunctional home I had no emotional skin to protect me in a relationship. It's probably why I had very few and then waited until I was 36 to get married.
Anyone living with an alcoholic needs a lot of support. I think it has to be doubled or more for adult children of alcoholics.
