The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Comes from being with an A for many many years, living the program, plus my Buddhist practice. Ive learned we can sit around and analize the A, analize our life, that has a shelf life of a few days, theres only so much of that we can say. ACTION and a plan every day. We have to live it. Happiness just doesnt happen, its something we work at, everyday, every moment. Isnt it amazing that Alanon has that for us. We can work at something every day , whether it be a step. Reading something that inspires us from the ODAT book or the big book.
Whatever we put into it, we will get it back. If its only part of the time, thats what we will get back. An inconsistent life. As much energy as the A puts into drinking and self will, thats how much energy we should put into something positive for our life. Life is too precious to spend it angry, resentful and as your name says, Wornout..... we must not live the A's life, live your own.
Luv, Bettina
-- Edited by Bettina on Saturday 28th of July 2012 02:11:08 PM
Hi. Thanks to al anon I do know its ok to think about my own well being/physical mental health. You? Sometimes theres much more than alcohol--usually is. No matter how much we care for or love the other person--drinking or dry drunk, some behaviors do not leave. Even with that I find there are issues that are just not healthy-- apply to both men and women; usually women have it the worst, but there are men in the same 'fix'.
I know about the behaviors, broken promises, etc. Here's what I am struggling with and really need to reach out for help. there are plenty of AA meetings, and AA counselors. What I am findind in a part of NC is that are really few al anon meetings and more difficulty getting in touch with al anon counselor/phone/support who doesn't know the 'other'.
I've taken care of the other for years; now i know it is time for major changes for my own good. Sure I can be happy the 'other' now going back to AA (after I had said i was leaving), but now staying.. happy for the person and feel it is working.
Still .. what about "me"... "us" who are in al anon together in this struggle.
insight on this: although I support my 'other' in meetings, etc.. there is this unhealthy beast that wants me to sit home, go nowhere without him/her going along--giving me no privacy at my dr office, and continually telling me i don't need to go anywhere. all my life i've known this type this is not just unhealthy, it is dangerous.
I am having difficulty getting up with others for support. do belong to an al anon group--recently. that has helped quite a bit and will continue. but, being beaten down and isolated is terrible. when i've gotten involved with groups/healthy groups even with my partner-- she finds ways to cause conflict and destroy it.. when i've tried going to a church on my own, she follows.. and causes problems.. same with work-- lost a good job because of maybe the alchol behavior, but also the'control' issue.. I'm struggling between how much is alcohol related and how much is just other emotional/control issues.
anyway, back to me. will appreciate thoughts, suggestions info for telephone support system and maybe other al anon meetings in eastern nc i might not be aware.
thank you, al anon family. I've seen much more pain in the eyes of other people--wanting to still love and stand behind the people we chose for partners-- but hurting ourselves so much-- these are truly good people, but the AA demon is hurting both of us.
One day at a time. appreciate your thoughts and wisdom.
The person you need to stand behind is YOU! We give away ourselves to other people so easily but why is it when it comes to the self we havent a clue.
Besides that the Alcoholic knows it when we are weak and needy.
The focus cannot be on the alcoholic even though its difficult we must totally give ourselves to this Alanon program and build our strength and confidence and connect with our higher powers.
The A throws us off balance everytime, until we finally learn to recognize it. The alcoholic throw everything at you as long as you take it.
Keep coming back here and get the help you need, its all here for you.
Aloha Manalanon...I won't do the thinking talking thing with you I'll tell you about a few experiences with the condition you speak of....I got together with others from my home group/district where I got into recovery and we opened new meetings in other areas...we had more meetings to go to and more people to share in our recovery. Local members, the district, WSO (World Service) are all to willing to help spread the message. Another thing I did was take the Public Information service position in my district so that I could go out and pass the message to others in my community on all levels because many others (like in your area) need to hear the message and know they are not alone. It is recognized that 1 alcoholic, in minimum, will affect 20 or more people in their surroundings. I know this to be factual because of my experiences...family, friends and profession.
I learned about my own well being and what that was supposed to look like, feel like, sound like and act like from the fellowship of Al-Anon. It's what I live and try to pass on. First thing I had to do is get free of fear. I learned that in the face to face meetings too.
Keep coming back cause there is soooo much more ESH to get here from these elders. In support (((((hugs)))))
thanks, jerry. love my person, but, not happy with my situation. in looking out for my 'other', her work, retirement, her family problems, etc I wound up getting in position to giving up my own paid-for car, helping her get a new one-- really i was just so stupid. she goes off to a meeting and tells me i can stay home and clean up, etc.
anyway, right you are, back to me. what really does stand out to me.. as with many other issues, is how much support there is for women, and so little for men. as i was sitting here alone today, she was out-- I did in fact call a local AA, etc helpline asking for an al anon counselor. well, that was about four hours ago. one of the problems living in a small city/town as those who want to support her might not want to support me, just how it goes.
Even on the internet, i found many broken or wrong link for al anon numbers, and really nothing much there for a live voice, or even meetings on saturday.
thanks jerry. I truly love this person, have compassion, but dont like the manipulation that tries to make my total life all about doing for her/her friends and staying home.
al anon has helped me recently and this board seems to be another healthy medium.
Manalanon, I had similar struggles when I was with my ex ABF -- how much of what I see is attributable to the disease of alcoholism, and how much is intrinsically HIM, his personality? He was an incredibly manipulative person, always (brilliantly!) minimizing and denying my needs and concerns. I had enough difficulty believing in their validity because of my own low self-esteem, it was pretty easy to put me in a position of feeling like I was "needy" or "crazy" for standing up for myself.
Eventually, in time, and with the help of the Al-Anon program, it became clear. Ultimately I didn't need to know why he behaved the way he did, just that I didn't want to be around it any longer. At that point it became surprisingly easy to leave.
If you can't find a face to face meeting in your area, there are regular meetings on the board here. And you can start reading Al-Anon literature (I recommend beginning with How Al-Anon Works).
__________________
Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could... Tomorrow is a new day. You shall begin it serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense. - Emerson
so many 'other problems' and influences. honestly, it's been a struggle. you see, if it's not the alcohol, it is some other woman wanting a running partner (church, aa, doesn't matter), or even AA people. here's why. first full week and one night for a 7 pm meeting; now she is a creature of habit and wants things exactly so. would normally be home by 8:15, not home by 9, not by 8'30, almost 10 she finally gets home. I had called the local aa group, they said they didn't have a meeting at 7 pm. some reason she didn't want me going to the same meeting place and asked that i go to an al anon meeting a couple miles away. . which i did. I came out feeling pretty good. only to be 'busted' later. you see, when i asked about all this-- well, there was a meeting in the next town another lady wanted to attend--so we went to that.. about 25 miles away.. then afterwards, i didn't like what i heard in the first meeting so went to a meeting at the original place at 8 pm.. yeah? well what happened afterwards? well, we just stood around and talked .. and she told me very happily how she figured out who this other man was we'd seen and she stayed to speak with him and another woman. now i didn't get a phone call, nothing which she normally would have done. concern. AA is not interested in saving our marriage. when i first met her, helped her things were going well. then she told me she couldn't see me because some woman in aa told her she shouldn't have a man in her life (this unit had a high presence of lesbians she told me). so, we parted.. she would up with severe problems and hospital for a month due to that. I got back with her later and helped bring some items of stability to her life including church.
to me, this is just another problem to face. People having fun breaking up relationships that otherwise might work. and I told one of the sponsors it was readily apparent she/they didn't give one bit for me--only my wife. should i be happy that aa has helped her become infatuated with another AA man in record time? no.
in fact, the AA thing actually gets in the way of our 'marriage' activities. I'm getting tired of everything revolving either around beer, or now AA meetings-- as we had a family event today to go to.. instead? she goes to an aa meeting and I stay home.
An AA counselor spoke honestly with me and said 'yes' you have right to be concerned over the events the other evening. of course, when i went to another meeting with her this week, didn't take long for the 'other' man to walk in, spend 15 minutes in front of me pretending to be our friends. I've seen this before with another wife and don't plan on staying to allow them to humiliate me in public.
Al anon? encouraged me to go off and do my own thing, go to my own even AA meetings? did my wife like that ? heck no, she's afraid some other woman will like me.. but she wants to go do her own thing.
I am just going to comment on one sentence you wrote in your last post. 1st of all welcome to MIP! You said "some woman told her she shouldn't have a man in her life". I am shocked by that statement... as the point of any 12 step group is for you to work the steps, change behaviors and become the person you were meant to be. It is not a place that is out to break up any marriage. In fact no person should be giving advice period unless there is abuse involved. What is "suggested" when you enter the program that you do not make any major life changes such as getting a boyfriend or girlfriend, leaving your significant other etc. The program is designed to get you to a place where you make healthy decisions for yourself. And the group to support any decision you make. It really isn't a marriage counseling program because the Alcoholic as well as the Alanon each need to work the program to eventually make rational decisions. Every marriage is different, has a different dynamic and we aren't schooled to give counseling per se to any one. All we can do is share our experience, strength and hope. Tell our difficulties and then how we over came them. I just can't believe anyone working a proper program would give that kind of advice. And if they did then they have their own agenda. I wish you the best of luck... we do have meetings here online if you need extra support. And they are great! Blessings
thank you so much, xeno. glad you spoke it like it is supposed to be. I've been assaulted by my "a" and by many others within AA for speaking up and being assertive.
yes, that incident did happen when i was dating my A--female partner. my partner was doing well at the time and we were doing great together. yes, that person had an agenda as it later turned out and also did some severe emotional damage to my wife in the process.
another person in that same 'group' around the same 3 yr period-- i'm going to speak honestly on this.. also tried running this man out of her life... what we both found out later was that this woman was trying to run me out so she could try to get my woman as another female partner for her man... yes, true. she started out as sexual predators do by getting her to go with her to an adult store.... showing her what she liked.. and then in another setting just offered up the idea... my "a" did not partake, and eventually got away from that person in AA. point is, people will try.
AA does notoperate that way, Al anon does not operate that way. some people deviate.
now that was almost a dozen years ago. now i am faced with a woman who wants to take up her mornings and evenings 7 days a week-- and they expect me to sit home. yes, just like the big book says, i am starting to get resentful and wanting peace for myself and having daily thoughts about just wanting to give up, leave, find someone who is not associated with all these problems.. i've been hit with... give it 6 months... as i told my 'a' today and some other people.. my six months started back in 2005, and again, and again, and again.. time's running out..
Saturday night i went to an open meeting with her.. i know AA and al anon people shake hands, hug, etc.. almost like women's intution a couple weeks ago i noticed one fellow in particular---just stood out in another way..
Saturday night? my "a" wife.. who is normally conservative in many ways, refined, and at ease in any social setting... (but who doesn't want me even smiling at a female store clerk--and got mad when i bought donuts from girl scouts)......
she walks in... goes to this younger man... rather than shaking his hand, jumps down on the sofa beside him, throws are arm around his neck and rolls over onto him.. me standing there in disbelief.. other men looking to see how i would respond.. i didn't.. except to stay serious.. and speak with her after the meeting...
i've seen plenty of hugs in AA.. this was not your normal hug.. she says.. the sofa made me do it...
turns out this fellow is a boyfriend of my wife's sponsor who also happened to be in charge of this meeting... when i asked her about it .. she denied knowledge and finally admitted he had been her live in lover... but now he has another lover...
to me, i think the sponsor, woman in charge was wrong to let things get out of hand like that... apparently trying to make her boyfriend happy...
i've read the big book info for 'wives' saying let your person go, have their romance partners.. let them do what their going to do... you can't control it... maybe so, but we don't have to live with it, have it thrown in our faces, and let it destroy our inner selves..
dissappointing? that any AA leader would allow inappropriate behavior in a meeting and that any spouse could not trust that an aa leader might even enable romantic relationships between single people and married partners..
when i assert trying to follow the big book and al anon guides for my good, i meet stiff resistence and yelling.
may "a' says that young guy now has another girl friend.. so what?... this AA woman leaders vision is clouded because she is like so many women who will let a man have and do what they want as long as they can have him part time...
i've likely said too much, but am struggling over when to just finally say, enough is enough... i need to move on.. this isnt' the first time wont be the last..
and having an AA sponsor/meeting leader who is allowing one of her boyfriends to wallow on a couch with my wife... a newby to this group.... having her call in on my cell phone, my home phone and trying her best to totally remove my wife from my home.. not good.
i've been trying to figure out her angle.. if she is maybe even trying to be pimping women for some local men... or what.. something is not right...
the al anon meetings i've been to and the good aa meetings i've been to are nothing like what i am describing... (recent meetings).. i am not a drinker, no alcohol problems.. just trying to help my wife..
for some reason my wife didn't want me going to that meeting that night... after getting there and seeing what i did.. i could see why..
if this is what al anon and AA leadership/natonal office is allowing and encouraging, there are major problems...
anyway, thanks for saying what we both know should should be safe operating procedure for vulnerable AA people.
xeno. another one. that one was about a dozen years ago in another town. I went to a really good al anon meeting in my town..one night. next week went to an al anon meeting at another site i knew about... in that meeting a MAN spent 10 minutes aggressively telling a woman she needed to get rid of her man and never talk to him again.. outside of the 'a' problem, there was no abuse, no violence, etc..
i was shocked because there were 3 very old timers who let it go on.. thanks goodness a woman finally spoke up and gave the good advice 'don't do anything until you speak with your sponsor"...
there seems to be a lack of direction from national/regional AA and al anon in some of these meetings.. they even told me that at national.. for both... that people can run meetings as they wish.. and anyone can start a group..
had i known that i never would have supported going into those groups.. but they are not like the other ones that are well run..
in fact.. 'we' went to another open meeting somewhere else tonight.. run well.. no sexual predators pawing all over anyone... hugs yes, but not the aggressive sofa rolling stuff...
i have to wonder if the woman leading that one meeting with the 'boyfriend' who has other girlfriends, but lived with her.. is also trying to help buld his smorgasboard of new/vulnerable women.. i don't discount it.
anyway. thanks. i am trying to take care of me... and want a woman in my life (this one is good) .. but one who not allow others to come in and insult.. i protect her when we go out anywhere... for some reason she allows other people to insult me.. and they know she will allow it..
I hear you and hear all the painful experiences that you have encountered at meetings over the years. Alanon and AA are founded on Spiritual Principles and the Steps and the Traditions hold us together in unity. There are guidelines as to acceptable behavior in a meetings such as NO cross talk and no giving advise. If a group does not adhere to these guidelines a member of the group can insist on a group business meeting and vote for change.
By attending alanon meetings (alone) I learned how to validate myself and take care of myself I learned it was my responsibility to focus on myself and protect myself in all situations I once thought that I should abandon myself and trust my partner will protect me Not so I needed to learn how to draw boundaries, validate my needs and take care of me. It was hard and took tome but it was worth it.
Meetings work, It is up to each individual to seek out the healthy people (the winners) and move forward.,
Sick with the winners and Meetings Makers Make it are some of my favorite slogans.
thank you, betty. well put, simply and truthfully. I just spoke with a gentelman at a professional reahbiitation center where i attended a meeting tonite.. open AA. it was conducted professional complete with genuine hugs. one difference. that center has to abide by professional standards and has licensed people on hand. what i have learned is that any group can operate any way they want under AA or al anon.
the gentleman did help me as he expressed shock to find out what was going on at some of the AA meetings and that there was no accountability. I went to bed early tonite.. only to have the light cut on.. yelling at me nonstop for 20 minutes... because i dared to say i disapprove of what i saw.. and i am taking care of myself. the yelling and screaming is a regular thing... oh, i had no doubt this 40ish fellow was going to try and make my wife another one of his trophies.. if i had any doubt i saw it in action at that meeting... and the AA sponsor/meeting leader was his enabler. common. period. common.
it's not unusual to find sexual predators in AA meetings--- just some people are to as approachable while others are an easy mark.. another warning sign for me? when my wife lied about where 'they were going for one meeting/one hour-- finally showed up home 3 1/2 hurs later.. supposedly went out of town for an unplanned meeting with someone else, to another later meeting in our town, and staying around to talk with women and women for about an hour afterward late at nigth.. the warning to me?... "i didn't think you really cared about me".
my biggest problem is being yelled at and being told to stay home while she goes out 7 days a week and some nights... and no time for our 'family'...
thanks betty. i think what i am seeing is some sexual predators hiding behind an AA group... and maybe even some financial cons after women's money.. i've see plenty of that.
me. I am getting more lonely, more feeling abused, more beat down, more isolated. she did a number in church this morning.. planned in advance--walked in to the sanctuary, had words with a man.. pointed a finger at me and walked out... i was speechless, but needless to say, the attention was drawn to me.. all i could do was leave. she then said oh, let's go back in.. no way, went on home.
board. I am getting extremely lonely and isolated. not good. i am a good man, 60's, know i have many friends... but she has run off all my friends and what could be OUR friends.
thank you for sharing, betty and all. never in my life thought i would be in such a position. my first marriage at end of 20 yrs.. my wife would go out on a date with some man.. and tell me she was entitled.. and i was powerless until i finally got out of that marriage..
this woman is now trying to do something similar... i am supposed to stay home while she and her friends go out 7 days and some nights each week.. hang around with the men after meetings for an hour or so... and not say a word... but don't dare leave the house.
it's impossible to imagine how this has been allowed to happen to me.. it is terrible. although i can blame other people.. my 'a' is responsible.. and I am stuck in a small town with not enough independent outlets for the nondrinker/al anon person.
Hi. Thanks to al anon I do know its ok to think about my own well being/physical mental health. You? Sometimes theres much more than alcohol--usually is. No matter how much we care for or love the other person--drinking or dry drunk, some behaviors do not leave. Even with that I find there are issues that are just not healthy-- apply to both men and women; usually women have it the worst, but there are men in the same 'fix'.
I wish I had you in my ear 24 hours a day reminding me to think more about ME!!!!!