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My father was a mess on Thanksgiving. We had the meal at his house and he stayed in the kitchen nearly the entire time and drank while cooking. When my husband and I arrived my brother and his wife were already there and my father was already drunk.
The day progressed without much of anything.. I broke out of my normal pattern of trying to engage him, trying to argue with him, calling him out and I just avoided eye contact, kept my mouth shut, and enjoyed the time with my brother and his wife.
At dessert, he was clearly sloshed. He was slurring his words and could barely get a sentence out. I quickly ate my cheesecake and then left the table and the house. My brother followed suit.
Here is the issue: I am holding Christmas dinner at my house, with the same 5 people. I will not have the ability to just get up and leave, do not want to be forced to kick my drunk father out of my house, and do not want to just not invite him. Also, not very relevant... but it is to me, I am three months pregnant with my first child and want to start creating holiday traditions in my home that are safe, fun, and happy. Drunk grandpa does not fit into that.
My husband and I talked about it and we decided that Christmas will be dry in our house this year (and probably consequent years... but one step at a time). Everyone will know ahead of time and can make their own decisions about participation. If noone comes then we will have a wonderful and sober christmas dinner just the two of us. We are okay with this.
What do you think??
I feel like I cannot spend time with my father when he is drinking. I can no longer enable him, meet him at his bar, sit in his house, or offer him alcohol in my home. I have given up trying to control him... but at the same time I don't think that I should have to be miserable on Christmas day in my own house because of my drunk father.
All of my realizations about my father (who I have always been incredibly close to) have come to light in the past year, before my wedding. I went to therapy on my own, went to one session with him to his therapist (who he has stopped seeing) and have spent many hours begging and pleading for him to just remember what he used to be like before the alcohol took over. I am done with all of that. Now I am just trying to create holiday traditions for my family (husband and future kids) that are not afflicted by alcoholism.
Can you share your holiday experiences?? I would love to hear from people who are also dealing with this. My husband's father is also and alcoholic but he left when my husband was a baby... so my father is his first real experience with this too.
Thank you so much!
Edited to correct spelling of tags
-- Edited by pitbull lover on Saturday 26th of November 2011 03:30:17 PM
I can so relate to your post! If I may speak from the point of view of your future child.....THANK YOU!!! Christmases with my family as a child were horrendous!! Everyone drank except my Mom and the kids.Usually after supper there would be an inappropriate comment or 2 then a huge fight!!
I stopped subjecting myself to this at age 14 after one last terrible fight that I ended up involved in(no one calls me Mom names!!).After that I decided that it just wasn't worth it and would rather stay home alone with the dog.Thankfully it never came to that and my parents stayed home with me.
I do know that if I was hosting Christmas dinner at my house,God forbid, it would be a dry one!
Pitbull lover: The is try not to project too much but be prepared for anything! I never really experienced what you are going through but I have a MOM that ruined a few Christmases from having bipolar episodes. This may not relate to you. Take what you like & leave the rest! We are here for you! I know Christmas can be stressful for anyone but I think it affects us a lot more sometimes especially w/ active alcoholism in the family.
I am sure you will have a great time if you are able. There are meetings during the holiday, too. If you can get out, go! Maybe you won't feel like leaving your own home. Just a suggestion. That's all we as members of Alanon really can do!
Hi and welcome. I hope you are able to find some meetings in your area especially this time of year. I think it is definetly okay to set boundaries in your home, with that being said A's can try to test those boundaries so be prepared for that also. I am sending you love and support on your journey!
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
It is wonderful that you know your own boundaries and that you are planning to protect yourself.
My experience is that it didn't matter when I had a "dry" meal at my house (in fact the great majority of our meals were without alcohol being served). My ex-AH always came prepared with alcohol. I finally figured out how he did it: he'd have those little airline bottles of alcohol in his pockets. I figured that out when one slipped out of his pocket. That explained his frequent trips to the bathroom, how he insisted on checking something in the basement, and so on. He'd get away from the group for just a minute and gulp down some vodka.
So I guess if I were in your shoes, I'd have a Plan B for if your father shows up and gets drunker throughout the evening even though you can't figure out how he's getting any alcohol.
Knowing what I know now, and having experienced what I have, I've found the best way to protect myself is just not to invite the alcoholics. I'll see them another time in a situation where I can make my excuses and leave. Because if there were a way to keep an alcoholic from drinking, I would have found it.
oh cripes....i see a whole lot of family upset coming out of this decisions to make your house a dry one for christmas. i really think that excluding your dad from the house on christmas day- might induce him to the biggest binge in the history of all binges.
im not saying you are doing anything wrong, but i think...if he is not abusive or aggressive then there is nothing you can do but accept the very sad fact of a sloshed person in yur house. i know how upsetting it is to watch it- ive watched my mum in this condition for many years- grew to hate the expressions and smells and the whole thing- so i do know how much it upsets you. but i also think- you might end up with endless drunken phone calls- from a very drunk hurt person- he might just go over board and you can end up having a much- much worse times of it. although i hate drunks with a passion- obviously of course i do. and if my mum was not drinking- i would not hesitate in pushing her away...but i do know that when they are within the sickness, they ar4 in their very height of vulnerability and hurt...and things cut them deep and sets them off to massive drinking binges.....
well thats my pennys worth...as you did ask what people thought- i dont envvy your situation at all- my heart goes out to you- as someone on the receiving end of many drunk christmas's i know what you are going thrugh
ah shucks....its difficult. i just wanted to let yu know that you cant order a drunk person to be sober on a particular day...so it will be accepting him sloched or not having him in the house at all- either way i dont think wil be a happy one.
that said...its yur total right to want a dry house if you want one- i have a dry house, and wouldnt tolerate it from anyone- i think you should give him plenty of warning...so he can gear up for staying sober for the day if he wants to be included....he wont be happy- he will be raw and need a drink but at least he can get a bit of family occaision and then go off and get sloshed.
why should you be on the receiving end of it? and why should your kids have to watch it and be exposed to it? sickness or no......its wrong. i think you should give plenty of warning if this is what you decide to do.....so it may be that he still gets a bit sloshed...but not so much...just so that he numbs himself a wee bit.
i entirely agree with you, why should they have no boundarys and get completely inebrediated infront of their loved ones? like all addictions its very selfish and you can only empower yourself by trying to insist on different.
I really appreciate all of your responses. It is so helpful.
I am not sure if it is because I am new to this realization of my father's problems, or continuing to deny how bad they really are... but the scenarios that were suggested might occur (sneaking alcohol, staying home to drink, drunken binges) either never crossed my mind or sound so outrageous... something that a REAL alcoholic would do, not my father.
Of course, you all have so much more knowledge and experience dealing with alcoholics (and presumably a lot less denial). The truth is my father has surprised me in the past when I have challenged him (including showing up drunk to the therapy session I arranged for the two of us with his therapist) and unfortunately I think all of you are right that things will probably not go as planned.
I guess my whole approach to a dry christmas was to try and make decisions that would result in a positive experience for my family (me and husband.. not father and brother) and not be coming from a place of wanting to punish my father. My initial instinct after Thanksgiving was to call my father and tell him that I will never again spend a holiday with him, never see him again, etc. But that reaction is not productive, it would really only serve to make me feel like I was punishing him, and it would be engaging him. The dry Christmas idea appealed to me because it breaks from the tradition of not acknowledging his problem, it would provide an opportunity for a good holiday, and if no one shows up, my husband and I can go for a hike and have a wonderful meal together.
I emailed my brother with my plans for a dry christmas and he wrote back suggesting that I just limit the amount of alcohol. While him and I acknowledge my father's problem between the two of us, neither of us have taken a stand on it. I explained that I don't want to be in the role of my father's babysitter, and by only limiting the alcohol that is what would happen. Plus it wouldn't address the fact that he has a huge problem.
So I am going ahead with it. And all of your predictions will probably come true. My honest guess is that he will be fine with the idea of it over the phone, then be sure to stop at his bar and down a few before he makes the hour drive out to my house. Which sucks, but is fine as long as that is it.
I don't know... it is such a terrible situation to be in.... but this is the best I can do.
I take it from most of your responses that you no longer spend holidays with your alcoholic family member?
I think which ever direction you choose to limit alcohol or have none at all, you will find support here. For me what has always worked is ask myself what is in MY best interest? When I answer that question openly and honestly, then my decision becomes clear.
Have you made it to any meetings? Everyone is different and different things work for us as individuals that all have the same difficulty in our lives. When I went to meetings and found my sponsor she helped me work out how to progress through my life based on what is best for me, that is why meetings and a sponsor is so important. There is no one plan that works for us all. We have all been effected by alcoholism and have different ways in dealing with it. My sponsor has helped me dig into what I need to take care of me in the midst of all that comes with dealing with an A (alcoholic). MIP is a great place to come and get ESH (experience, strength and hope) and to vent and get out the stuff we need to, but I have found the best place for me is a meeting. I am sending you love and support on your journey!
__________________
Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
I haven't made it to a meeting, but I am going to look one up and try to go. It sounds like it would be really helpful and just what I am looking for. For so long I have been dealing with this mostly on my own. My brother is still not really acknowledging how bad my father has become. My husband used to stick up for my father after drunken episodes (which would lead me to get infuriated since I would be angry with my father and then have no support from my husband). My mother is a therapist and has been really helpful with everything every step of the way. Just this past episode on Thanksgiving my husband finally saw how bad my father has gotten and did not stick up for him one bit. He was actually the one to suggest a dry Christmas! If nothing else it felt so good to have his support instead of trying to explain what is wrong with my father's behavior.
I think it would be really helpful to speak with others and stop feeing so alone. Alcoholics are so manipulative and stubborn and have so many excuses for their behavior. As we were leaving on Thanksgiving... without even mentioning his drunkenness or engaging him in any way... he sat at the dinner table and said that he only got that drunk because it was at his house, not at someone elses house. The excuses used to work, then they used to infuriate me, and now they seem hilarious in their absolute falseness and desparateness.
I just got off the phone with my mother and she was very supportive of the dry christmas. She has had many a conversation with me where I am screaming and crying about my father's actions and swearing to never talk to him again, etc. This approach and calm is brand-new and feels really good! I think the pregnancy has a lot to do with it... both in keeping me sober for interactions with him, seeing how easy it is to stop drinking (for me), and making my own happiness and that of my future child's more of a priority than my father's happiness.
Thank you for all of your help. I really appreciate the support and the variety of responses. It has been and is going to be a long journey, but I finally feel good about it. I can't change him but finally I am not angry and not upset. It is what it is and I can only do what is best for me.
Edited to add: my parents are divorced for 20 years now, still in contact and are civil with each other. She has seen his drunken episodes at parties at my house, my rehearsal dinner, etc.
-- Edited by pitbull lover on Sunday 27th of November 2011 11:38:44 AM
IN my experience with addicts, making a dry christmas plan at your house is a great idea for YOU and your family if that is what you want. It will make no difference to the addict. He will show up or he won't, he will be drunk or he won't.
Ihave seen people be 'dry' and still be a real difficult person to get along with.
Is it the alcohol or his behavour that you want to be free of at Christmas.
What if... and this is only what if.. he comes, he is dry, your Xmas is dry and he still causes an argument because he wants to prove to you that a dry christmas is a silly idea?
Dry is great if that is what you want, nothing wrong with that at all... I would just say .. in my experience.. it doesn't change the alcholics attitude, but it certainly is a step in the right direction for your safety if it is better for you.
Welcome to MIP! I hope you get an opportunity to read lots of prior posts. There is a wealth of good ES&H share (ES&H = experience, strength & hope).
For what it's worth, I'll share a similar situation. Last May, our eldest son was marrying. Our son made a special trip to my husband's residence a week before the wedding. He told him that he was very welcome. However, IF he showed up under the influence or began to drink, he would be immediately escorted to a nearby hotel and be carless until the next day.
My husband never showed up at the wedding because he tried to quit cold turkey 2 days before the wedding and experienced horrible withdrawals. But I know our son would have carried out what he said if needed.
Now going back further than the wedding.... when we had family get-togethers, they would be non-alcohol gatherings. It didn't matter because my husband had his stash in the garage. Towards the end of our marriage, I stopped having gatherings at our home because it was too painful and humiliating.
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You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
You have the right to set boundaries and if Dad goes on a binge, so be it, maybe he'll hit his bottom, maybe he wont-whatever it is his choice and if it is your choice to have a dry choliday I applaud you. I have lived through too many drunk holidays with my AH and everyone walking around on egg shells and still he might go into a rage.Unfortunately because it was his home too-I didn't have any recourse. I know my children would have loved a dry xmas-they have told me so.
Thanks every single one of you for your responses. It helps me so much to read them and to read these forums and realize that this is a condition.... not just my father's personality. It is so easy to get caught up in his excuses and manipulations.
So here is what has happened. I notified my brother via email that Christmas would be dry. He suggested that I just limit the alcohol, but I responded with the explanation that I did not want to be put in the position of babysitting my dad, and that we are all adults. The dry Christmas is to help me have a good time in my own home, not to prevent my dad from getting drunk. We also went out to dinner and it was so nice because my husband and me and my brother and his wife were able to talk about what happened at Thanksgiving and talk about how it really is a problem and it needs to be acknowledged. My husband is FINALLY on board after seeing him so incredibly sloshed (he explained that he could never really tell when he was drunk and when he wasn't, but Thanksgiving was something else and he finally gets where I have been coming from). My sister in law doesn't really get it yet... she hasn't really been around him as much as my husband has and can't really tell the difference between drunk and not drunk. A big part of this (I think anyway) is that he is always drunk when he is around her, so she has nothing to compare it to!
Anyway, they are all on board for dry Christmas. I called my dad today after he called to check up on how my first sonogram went (it went beautifully, thank god!).
In the past it has been VERY hard for me to not engage in my father's tactics. For example, some of the things that he said to me on the phone today: "I don't even think I drank that much on Thanksgiving" "Dry Christmas, no problem. Forewarned is forearmed." "It is good for me to know that you are going to be bent out of shape" "Whatever, you were so huffy on Thanksgiving."
ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
Okay... so I got that out finally. But the good thing is I didn't get it out on the phone. When he said he didnt drink that much on Thanksgiving (he brought it up, I didnt even use the words drink, drunk, alcoholic... anything like that) I just said that I wasn't going to argue with him about that. When he started with all the other stuff, I didn't take the bait. Instead of getting defensive because he is painting me as the angry, aggressive one, I just stayed calm and repeated that I needed to draw boundaries for myself in order to continue a relationship with him and that this is how things are going to be. I didn't accuse, I didn't fall for his victim shit, and I didn't yell at all. Not to say that I was happy or nice, but I kept my cool and was able to keep the conversation on the topic I was addressing instead of picking useless fights about his drinking that play into his issues. That is a thing of the past. So happy! I ended the conversation by saying that I would see him on Christmas. So there will be another update!
BTW I also found a meeting that meets a few blocks away from me on Wednesday and Friday nights. Things have been a little nuts around here but I am definitely going to get there before Christmas.
What a great conversation with your dad and I do hope you make it to those meetings. They really do make a difference I find that I have more light in my life when I leave than when I get there.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
The short version is that things got much, much worse for a bit (he refused to come to Christmas through a text on Christmas Eve) and then ended up better than I could have ever hoped for!
Thank you for all the support. This is definitely the beginning of my journey but I feel so good already!
