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I just read tanderboo’s post about the family afterwards, and sandie’s rely prompted me to ask for some feedback.
Quick background, I’m 2 years sober and my marriage didn’t survive sobriety. I couldn’t give my wife what she wanted quickly enough in recovery. We were divorced in August and still live in the same house (kids 12 and 14) until the sale is final in January. We get along just OK, I tell her that I still love her and she says she loves me, but maybe not in the right way. She has been involved with another guy who also is recently divorced, we were friends as couples before. Their ‘friendship’ started up soon after I came home from rehab, she would go over to visit him with our kids so the kids could spend time together. She has gone on vacation with this guy a year ago August with our kids and his. They shared a condo at the beach, I wasn’t invited. She had a lawyer back then but I hadn’t been served the papers yet. She went on another vacation with him and all the kids, a cruise, a week after the divorce. After the cruise, she got very depressed and started telling me and her close friends that she felt like she made a huge mistake, she shouldn’t have listened to all the advice she got pushing her to divorce, she’s sorry, she made so many mistakes, she din‘t realize everything I was going through, etc. I still love her and never wanted the divorce. If I say to her ‘you got what you wanted, you’re the one who wanted the divorce’ she gets angry with me and says I’m attacking her. She claims that she never wanted the divorce but she had no choice but to get out of an abusive relationship. I know our relationship needed a lot of repair after I got sober, but does unhappiness in a relationship and unfulfilled expectations constitute abuse? I was extremely insecure in early sobriety and afraid, really scared of how much I used my marriage to fulfill something missing in me.
Anyway, I don’t think she realized how her ‘friendship’ with other guy really effected my relationship with her. Even in the beginning, if they were only friends, I really couldn’t stand it when she spent time with him. But I didn’t feel it was my place to tell her who to be friends with. I think I was in denial that anything more was going on because I don’t think I could handle it at the time. She has recently told me that she wanted me to ‘fight’ for her to get her back. With my self esteem at an all time low back then, I honestly had nothing to fight with. It was rough enough just to stay focused on my program and sobriety at the time with all this other shit going on.
She has recently been talking about getting out of the house sale contract and working on our relationship. She has told me that she realized she needs to do a lot of work on herself and was just bringing her problems into another relationship. If I mention that I feel like she left me for someone else, she gets angry and tells me to stop attacking her. She says that our divorce had nothing to do with him. I really disagree. What ever she was feeling at the time, I never was sure and still don’t know. As far as I’m concerned, her ‘friendship’ with him certainly effected the way I felt about us and how much effort I put into repairing our marriage at the time. Is this a legitimate issue on my part? She shows no remorse about the relationship, she seems to have the whole thing justified in her mind that she did nothing wrong. She deserved to have that relationship because of the loneliness I caused her because of my drinking. Is it reasonable to expect that she break all ties to this guy if she wants to work on our relationship again? She said she’s not sure what she wants and the indecision is really making me confused and frustrated. I always had a feeling that the divorce was pushed through too quick, neither one of us was in the proper mental, emotional, or spiritual state to make that kind of decision. I would love nothing more than to get out of the house sale and try to keep our family together without uprooting the kids and moving. She says she needs time, that I had a lot more time to work things out than she had. Feedback please?
So many of your posts have made me take a long hard look at my actions in my marriage.
My husband is still active, but I put him out of our home. I felt he was abusive, calling me names, blaming me for everything and expecting me to be the only one to work, as well as take care of the house and the kids. I could not trust him alone with the kids, and I could not trust him to not drive with them while drinking. He has often accused me of pushing him away, or wanting out of the marriage.
I still love him, and because of some of the things you have written, I make sure I tell him that I love him. Too often I was guilty of silence on the other end of the phone when he said he loved me. He has started talking of rehab, and I pray he will go through with it this time. Too often he just talks about it. I have told him that I cannot live with an active alcoholic anymore, much as it hurts me, but I pray that he finds sobriety and can return home, if that is still what he wants.
No matter where he lives, or where I live, we are married and I am not free to involve myself in another relationship. It to me would be breaking my marriage vows, as well as not being fair to get involved with another person, while my husband still holds my heart. I am careful to make sure I present myself as a married woman, so as not to lead anyone on, and I learned a long time ago, to avoid compromising situations. While I have friends and coworkers who are men, and my husband has friends who are woman, there is a line that cannot be crossed.
I think that by your Wife saying not to attack her, she realizes that she did have a relationship outside the marriage. She is justifying it to herself and to you. No matter what the problems in a Marriage, tough times can make the grass look greener elsewhere. We all have our own opinions of right and wrong, and we all have to live with the decisions we make.
If you and your Wife are going to have a future togetehr, she is going to have to come to terms with the past, and you will also have to come to terms with the things she has done. You will both have to accept responsibility for your actions, so you can move on together.
I don't believe it is a matter of who has had more time, because we all work things out in our own time. In my opinion, and for me at least, unhappiness and lonliness do not jusify infidelity.
I do know I hope and pray that I have the chance that she has, to put the past in the past, and to work my way back in my marriage.
I hope it works out for the two of you. You both have a lot of forgiving to do, but if you love someone enough, anything is possible.
One last thing, love is love, it just varies in degrees as we move through life. If there is even the smallest amount left, then there is something left to fight for.
I just wrote you a two page response and POOF, it disappeared somehow. haha, That REALLY sucks when that happens. Maybe it wasn't meant to be sent, but I'll try again.
Every marriage is going to have difficult times, as it is very hard work to live with one person your entire life-- However, when times get tough, two people can choose to throw it all away or work at it together. Obviously, sometimes only one is willing to work at it and the other isn't ready. That being the case, there isn't much we can do huh? It sucks, I know and it hurts. The only thing we can do is let that person have their space and hope the best. Always trusting God that He knows what is best for us and if it is His will to bring two people back together again, NOTHING or NOBODY will stand in the way of that.....
I must say that no, being unhappy in a relationship isn't reason to end it-- we all go through things within ourselves and actually, a couple who can work through their most difficult times will reap rewards in the end I would think. I left my marraige because it was extremely abusive, physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. Had I not left it, I wouldn't be here today-- well, what little is left of me mentally and emotionally. haha
I too, left my marriage and sought out ANYTHING and ANYONE to help mask the pain without even realizing that all I was doing was numbing out emotions I hadn't allowed to surface. I was angry, bitter, resentful and yes-- hated him. I could say it so easily then. Now, he still is abusive and I can say I don't hate him, as hate is a STRONG, STRONG word. I hate the abusive things he does still and how he hurts me and the kids. But, I also know he's sick-- Yes, I get angry and lose control sometimes of my emotions because I am tired of 21 long years of this crap. This time though, it's between God and I. Trying to work through these emotions with His help and NOBODY elses.
It's interesting, but what I have found is that I made a complete circle in my life since I was divorced in 1997 and am back at the same emotions, fears and all else that I felt just before my marriage ended because there are so many things in my life that are triggering those emotions. I believe it is because God wants me to experience these emotions and work them out the healthy way now. Oh, and does it SUCK!!!! But, I trust God enough to let whatever is going to happen happen. I just hope that His plans for me aren't out somewhere homeless cause I'm on the verge of losing it all, my job, my home...... But, this is where I was in 1996 too because I hadn't worked and had no education. Now I am 7 classes away from a BS in Technical Management and potential to make 55k+ annually to start a job anywhere else. But these emotions have thrown me back to 1996 and all I've accomplished is fogged. Why? Again, because I believe there are unresolved emotions and feelings I need to work through. Lessons, I discovered I had learned as I was going through them back then, I now have to apply. My jealousy, insecurity or anything else in ANY relationship I'm being presented with again, BUT, this time..... I can trust and love friends for just that-- friends. I have one in particular who is a male friend whom I found myself feeling more than just a friendship for him.
What I've learned though is that friendship is the MOST IMPORTANT gift a person can have and so, unlike before where I didn't have the faintest idea of that concept and took everyone and everything for granted, I appreciate him and love him as God allows us to love.
Your wife sounds like she is going through some EXTREME emotions deep down and the best thing you can do is just let her have her space. There was a man in my life when I left my marriage that was just a friend-- til this day, I can say I love him with all of my heart, as he was the one who helped me out of that abusive marriage. However, you know what? There were times he didn't have time for me and I got upset, unhappy-- Only to discover the hard way that the attitude I gave him led him to eventually set his firm boundaries and walk out of my life. It was the most difficult thing for me to deal with, as here was someone I could treat like shit, expect him to jump for me cause he loved me right? Surprise, him walking out of my life for two years taught me so much about myself-- It was the next BEST thing he ever did for me, even though it felt like it had killed me. When we reunited as friends for a short time, I knew in my heart he did that because he loved me and cared for me so deeply. It taught me that I shouldn't take anyone or anything for granted. My emotions are my emotions and nobody elses responsibility. Yeah, we hurt because of what others do, but all we can do is face it and move on-- sometimes, even having to leave so you have no connection with these people. My friend had even put me on his ignore list online and blocked me from emailing him for these two years...... I'll NEVER forget him for that, and will always hold a special place in my heart for him.
Give your wife time..... Ya know that old saying?
If you love something, Set it free... If it comes back, it's yours, If it doesn't, it never was yours....
A person who is two years sober is still very young in their sobriety. It is so wonderful you are in recovery. Just hope you get more foundation under you before ya make major decisions.
When I read your post, I saw "I think" a lot. Not, "I believe", or "i know."
Sounds like on both parts, there needs to be a lot more growth before any decisions can be made.
For me, if my husband went away with another woman, friend or not, it is not appropriate. And no, if we got back together, no on the them being friends still.
When my A is gone, I don't even allow a single guy in my house. I know it is old fashioned, but to me it is in respect for our marriage. For me this is what makes the world all mixed up. Things that have been unacceptable all of a sudden are trying to be acceptable.
For me, a married person has no business going off with another man.
I am probably confusing you more.
How can anyone be getting a divorce and living in the same house??? NO wonder you are confused.
Maybe it would help to go to counseling to see what you both beleive what a marriage is. find out what you both want out of one.
If it were me, I would sure not be in the same house. Think about how the kids feel.
mom goes off with another man, yet her and dad live in the same house??? I know kids and they do not understand believe me.
Remember, "keep it simple?" Maybe that focus would help ya.
I apologize if I am not making sense. I could not get a real grasp on how you feel.
Sounds like on both parts, there needs to be a lot more growth before any decisions can be made.
My thoughts exactly throughout this whole mess.
The problem now is we don't have a lot of time if we are going to stay in this house, the closing is scheduled for January. After all I've been put through, I'm honestly not sure I'm willing to put any more effort into this if it reaches that point. My ex really needs to show me that there is something there worth working for, my love alone is not enough if it's not returned.
The problem now is we don't have a lot of time if we are going to stay in this house, the closing is scheduled for January.
Lou,
Maybe you need to stop thinking of January as a deadline. That has to put a lot of pressure on both of you. I don't know how long you have both lived in your house, or how important it is to both of you; but a house is 4 walls and a roof, home is in the heart. Maybe you need to think of letting the house go, and finding your way to possibly a new beginning and a new home to go with your new lives. I don't mean it has to be apart.
If the love you two have is meant to pull you back together it will regardless of what your street address is. Maybe you need to be apart to realize if you want to be together.
I know my husband is in my thoughts a thousand times a day, not just from the house, but from, sounds, smells, and sights all around us. I don't believe in "Out of sight out of mind."
You seem to be putting a lot of stress on yourslef to meet a deadline, and possibly she is feeling the stress too.
Put your faith in both your Hp's and in love, and see where that leads you.
You made a comment in your earlier post, that at a point in your recovery you where feeling fragile and insecure and did not feel you had anything to fight for her with. If she is very early in her recovery, maybe she doesn't feel she has anything to fight with right now. I believe that with two people in any relationship, we don't necessarily have the same strengths at the same time. Sometimes when one is feeling empty or weak the other has to be a little stronger, maybe fight a little more. Marriage is give and take and not always equal.
Only you know if it is worth fighting for, no one elses opinion matters.
I have no advice but I can share how I feel. My A husband is active and has no intention in recovery. In the 11 years we have been together and as this disease has progressed I have become more alone than I had ever thought possible. He used to love me so deeply and now is incapable of showing any emotions at all. I miss that deeply and now on the rare occasion if he does tell me he loves me I find it hard to believe and as for the intamate part of our relationship I really only feel used by him... It is deffinately hard to say but I don't think that any recovery program or words he could say to me would make me believe that he truely does love me and want me in his life. He has done alot of emotional dammage and has verbally abused me for so long that I truely believe that the dammage is done and can not be undone.
I understand why your wife wants you to fight for her, she needs and wants the proof that you love her and want her. my oppinion.
I try telling my husband how I feel and be kind about it, but he just doesn't see what he does to me and can not understand, he really has no clue!!!
I also can understand the male friend although I do not agree but that is not my business. I being vunerable and lonely would love to have the companionship of another man that can only be met by a man. It has been so long since I have really had that and I miss it. I would never turn to another man but it is something that I often think about. My issues on this are very strong as I was put in the middle of my dads affair as a kid and was friends with my A when his parents got divorced over his dads affair. My own raw issues....
I truely would love my A to find his way and that he would find the love he had for me years ago but lets be serious... the abuse has gone on for so long that I don't think it could be repaired...
I am greatful that I have my program because I am learning to love myself again and the things I mentioned above are not as raw for me as they were but I am working on that. I still feel a great sence of loss however. The love I have is still there but it is hugely guarded.
I learn so much from your posts and I am so glad you are a part of this family. You know Jeannie is right here why don't you just let things take their natural course. If the house was not meant to be sold the finance would not have come through. Try and look at it all as new beginnings you may actually end up having a better relationship with your wife if you live apart. We learn so much about boundaries here maybe you could just take one day at a time ,see how you are both getting on and then lay the foundations of what a new relationship would be mutually built on. Remember that trust is fundamental for both of you. Thinking of you. Luv Leo xx
Infidelity does hurt on any level. When my A was active, there were a couple of times he was unfaithful. I've managed to forgive and get past it. But I won't lie to you, every once in a while the old ghost comes back to haunt me. Not because I think that he will go back and cheat on me. When he's sober he's not the same person. He told me about it when it happened. He has severed all ties with that person, as she's active too. He no longer wants to put himself in that position. You're not being unreasonable to think that her friendship has effected the way that you feel about her. It must be hard to see the person she was with and knowing the family. I can't imagine that.
Your last line: "She says that she needs more time." Give it to her. Give it to yourself. Would you really want her to rush back if she isn't sure or you're not sure about things? Healing on all levels takes time, you know that. In a culture where we are all in a hurry to get things done, eat fast, etc. Slow down. I want my A home so badly I can't stand it. But we're not ready for that yet. I've waited 22 years to love this man. What's a little more time? We want to do it better, wiser, and hopefully sober this time. Living a part, as much of a drag as it is sometimes, has been very helpful for us. It's been healthy for us. We were so busy with our lives last week, that we only talked to each once. But it was a great talk. Our communication is stronger. It has taken the pressure off. I was in a foul mood one day, and instead of taking it out on him, I did what I use to do before we lived together. I went for a long walk, even in the pouring rain. I have to remind myself that when he's home, and I come home after a bad day, to go for a walk. Otherwise we fall back into the same old pattern that was unhealthy for both of us. Trust me, I know he was responsible for his relapse. But I was responsible for my reaction to that. I know that now, I didn't then. That's what the separate living arrangements have done for us. We're both concentrating on ourselves, so that we may be stronger together in the long run.
I can't help thinking that a bit of distance will help both of you gain the perspective you both need. It doesn't mean, by any stretch that you've stopped loving her or she has stopped loving you. First of all it means that you love yourself enough to do this for you. You've proven that by getting sober. Maybe she needs to do that for herself. It sounds like to me that if she is asking you to fight for her, that there is not enough confidence in herself to believe that she deserves to be happy. Am I being clear on that? I don't need my A to "prove to me" or "fight for me" in order to believe that he loves me. I know he does. I can't explain it. But it comes from within. I just know that he does, even with the infidelity. There's no doubt in my mind or heart.
I know the house means the world to you. I can understand that. So does mine. But I've given strong consideration to the idea of moving to a new place once he's ready to come home. There are many good memories here, but there are also some very unhappy moments here. I know that's what a home is. But maybe it's time for us to make a fresh start some place else and build new memories. I think this deadline you've given yourself because of the house being sold is forcing you look for answers that aren't ready to be answered. Forcing the answers to come when they are not ready is counterproductive. Time is a great healer.
Stay well and be good to yourself, you deserve it.
Live strong, Karilynn
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