"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

raincaster · Member

Help- I've fallen for an A

rosie light shines · ~*Service Worker*~

hi, because i have *been there--done that* before and it ended up in divorce,...i would not even think of settling with someone with **less* than two years recovery under their belt-- and serious about meetings, etc.......**any* addict is a real high risk for hurt---some of them get past it and stay with the program and thus stay clean......lots don't!!!!! i cannot tell you what to do with your decisions...all i can do is wish you well, and i am glad you are in program ...this program , working it hard has taught me to *take care of me* and to **live and let live* it also taught me as i love myself more, i don't even think of getting involved with addicts or recovering addicts anymore......it is just too risky for me......please take what works andleave the rest........OH, one more thing, when i am faced with **temptation* i get myself into meetings, and share with my sponser and i get into the literature and i really really work the heck out of the program............peace/ rosie

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello Rain , well those are great questions= which I don't have the answers too. For the first little while she will be what I lovingly call "stark raving sober" which seems to last a yr or two . But the good news is she will recover if she does what AA says and if you plan on staying in this relationship I would strongly suggest that u get a program of your own such as Al-Anon which in my opinion is the best way to support the efforts of our partners. You will learn about the disease of alcoholism and all of your questions will be answered from people who have been where your at

Some members feel that they need to be in meetings everyday it is important that we don't stand in the way of th ier recovery or resent the time spent with others who are trying to help her this is life and death for the A and we need to give them the space they need,with out resentments. Everyone is different your A will do what she has to do to stay sober. Leave her to God and AA as u attend meetings and keep the focus on yourself - this is a selfish disease and most of us tend to focus on the alcoholic, while compromisng our own lives.

I wish you luck and here is the toll free info number for meetings in your area 1-888-4alanon

TLC2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi, and welcome to the rollercoaster!

I am very much in love with my A, as are most of us, or we wouldn't be here. Alanon is a wonderful support group for people who are affected by Alcoholism and/or mind-altering drugs.

I might suggest that you read over a lot of the posts on this board to get an idea of what life is like living with an A. Please also remember that we come here to vent and support one another, so you won't see all the angles. My A is a wonderful man who has a horrible disease. Coming to Alanon has helped me to understand him and his disease, and it turned my whole world around for the better. Read all the literature you can get your hands on! Wishing you all the best, TLC

Dolphin123 · ~*Service Worker*~

(((((((Rain)))))))))),

Hello and welcome to Alanon, glad you are here.

I have been with my "A" for 8 years now, and he was an "A" when I met him. I knew it to and thought I could fix him, guess what I figured out, I can't.

Have you heard the three C's?

You didn't Cause the alcoholism.

You can't Control it.

You can't Cure it.

As for running for the hills, only you can make that call. Alanon is full of many people who have chosen to leave their "A", as well as many people who have chosen to stay. It is all up to you, and what you decide.

Living with alcoholism is extremely difficult, and myself, I was insane before I found alanon. Now I work my program, and take care of me. My kids now have a somewhat insane mother, but I am much better off.

My "A" is very active in his disease, and it is hard to live with, but I have chosen to stay. And it is right for me. I go to meetings, this helps me, I come here to vent and to share what I have gotten from this program, and I have learned to love my "A" with a compassion and understanding that is so wonderful, it is a gift.

I would suggest that you attend open AA meetings in your area. I know that this has helped me to better understand my "A". i talk to recovering alcoholic/addicts. I don't dump my problems on them, many "A"s can not handle my emotions because it hits to close to home, but I ask them questions. I have some trusted people in AA, who I can go to for knowledge. Go to alanon meetings, work on you, do stuff for you, and keep coming back.

Much Love,

raincaster · Member

Wow,
It all sounds so depressing to me. I have never had to "work on myself" before. Am I that messed up for loving somebody who has this addiction? I have two small kids- how am I supposed to care for THEM, if I am being so selfish about my own needs?

The Al-Anon meetings I've been to suggest that I just let go and not care about how the disease is ravaging my beloved. That sounds like a truly lonely and uncaring exhistance. I'm not sure I can do that. Will I truly fall apart?

How do y'all do it? Can you just stop caring about the disease related issues, yet keeping loving the A in all other ways?

RC

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

Al-Anon principles teach us NOT to give advice, so even though I desperately WANT to encourage you to take the "run for the hills" option, I am experienced enough to know that I know "not nearly enough" to guide you on that, one way or the other.

I would encourage you to read books on the disease, and keep your eyes wide open.... One excellent book, is "Getting Them Sober", volume one, by Toby Rice Drews. The best book on the market, from my perspective. I'd also encourage you to judge her by her actions, and not her words.... Alcoholics are famous for promising what they are "going to do", and it is really easy to get swallowed up into that.... Stick with the facts, and what she DOES, as when they are active, the disease often overrides everything for them, and she will tell you whatever she thinks you need to hear - that will allow her to keep using.

I wish you love, education, and patience in your journey with her.

Tom

browneyes · Senior Member

Hello

To tell you the truth if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't. The things that keep me here are very long to explain and I have had a very painful life with my husband. But I was also very sick when I met him and had a very painful life before him. So it was inevitable for me to end up with an alcoholic/addict. But what I have learned from AlAnon is lifesaving (literally) and I don't regret that. I like to think that I would have found AlAnon anyway but if it wasn't for the pain I was in, who knows?

If I was talking to my daughter, I would tell her to keep going to AlAnon, if only for the support, friendship, and information that it provides. It is always good to be informed about what you are getting into. I agree that the Getting them Sober books are very good. And all the Alanon literature.

In my experience, my children and how they are going to fare in life is a constant worry. I wish that I did not have children with their father but I did. And now it is up to me to help myself so I can help them. So yeah it's a lot of work and a constant process of working the program. It's worth it to me because life is worth it and being happy is worth it. And my children are worth it. But if I didn't have to be in this life I wouldn't choose it for someone. I hope that makes sense.

I hope this helped a little bit. Keep coming and Welcome!!

Love Julie

-- Edited by browneyes at 16:46, 2005-09-19

Flora123 · Senior Member

Well, the truth is, if I knew then, what I know now, I would take the hills option. Except, when we love someone - it is not that easy. I did not fall for an A, I fell for the child of an A - couldn't touch me, she was an old woman and lived far away.

Now, many years on, I can see that my late husband's behaviour was exactly same as if he was an A - more than that, my daughter is an a, with, thankfully 5 years of AA and sobriety.

This is a complicated disease, and, something in us, finds As attractive! Seriously, even when I look at TV and think someone nice, sure enough, few weeks/months, big spread in paper, they are A! Why do I find myself attracted to these people? thankfully, I have enough recovery now, would never get involved in a relationship that involved alcohol.

More to the point, I think, what has brought you to this place? Is this your first experience of alcoholism? Are you sure? Sometimes, it lurks in the family, neither of my parents drank, I married an adult child of an A, my brother married an A who died at 48 of this disease. It came from somewhere. It is the family illness.

Good luck, whatever you decide, just, please, go in with open eyes!!!

Lots of love,

Flora
xxxx

RichardA · Member

RAINCASTER:

WELCOME-IF YOU READ THE POSTS(AND YOU SHOULD) MOST ARE SOMEWHAT DEPRESSING. FIRST OFF LET ME SAY-ANYTHING I WRITE IS ONLY MY OPINION AND NOT THE ONLY WAY. MOST OF THE FOLKS HERE ARE VERY COMPASSIONATE AND VERY UNDERSTANDING. YOUR SITUATION IS IN NO WAY UNIQUE, MANY FOLKS WALKED INTO A RELATIONSHIP WITH SEMI OPEN EYES BUT WITH THICK SHADES ON CALLED "LOVE".

I TOO MET A LADY YEARS AGO-AT FIRST ALCOHOL WAS NOT AN ISSUE BUT THAN SHE CONFIDED IN ME THAT SHE HAD HAD BOUTS WITH THE BOTTLE IN HER PAST-AT THE TIME SHE HAD BEEN SOBER FOR A COUPLE YEARS(MAYBE?) AS OUR RELATIONSHIP GREW-SO DID HER BOUTS WITH THE BOTTLE-WELL THERE WERE MANY TIMES THAT I WOULD GO OVER TO HER PLACE AND SHE WOULD ALREADY BE IN HER STATE AND I WOULD DO NOTHING BUT BABYSIT HER. SHE NEVER GOT DRUNK WHEN I WAS THERE IF I GOT THERE BEFORE SHE STARTED TO DRINK-THEREFORE I ASSUMED THAT MY INFLUENCE ON HER WAS POSITIVE AND THAT I WOULD BE CAPABLE OF CHANGING HER BAD HABITS. (THIS WE WILL CALL MISTAKE #1)

AS TIME WENT ON SHE STOPPED WORKING AND DROVE HERSELF INTO FINANCIAL TROUBLE AND WAS FORCED TO SELL HER HOUSE WITH NO WHERE TO GO. SO SEEING AS I DID CARE FOR HER AND I DO OWN A HOUSE AND THE YEAR THIS HAPPENED I WOULD BE OUT OF TOWN MOST OF THE YEAR I INVITED HER AND ONE OF HER SONS TO MOVE INTO MY PLACE-EVERYONE WAS FINE. AGAIN AS TIME WENT BY MY OLDEST DAUGHTER HAD A BABY SO NOW I WAS A GRANDPA. WELL THAT PUT PRESSURE ON ME BECAUSE I DIDN'T FEEL RIGHT LIVING WITH A LADY AND BEING A GRANDPA SO AFTER MY TRAVELS WERE OVER I ASKED THIS LADY TO MARRY ME-SHE DID WE DID AND HERE WE ARE.

I HAVE NOW BEEN MARRIED TWO AND A HALF YEARS AND SHE HAS BEEN IN DETOX AND REHAB FOUR TIMES IN TWO YEARS-SOME WILL SAY WELL AT LEAST SHE'S TRYING-TRUE-BUT THE MONTHS PRECEEDING THESE HOSPITAL STAYS ARE PURE HELL TO LIVE. HERE ARE SOME WORDS THAT HOPEFULLY HAVE MEANING TO YOU BUT THERE AREN'T TOO MANY ALCOHOLICS THAT WILL CLAIM THEM AS PART OF THEIR VOCABULARY---TRUST-HONESTY-RESPONSIBILITY---

A'S COME IN ALL STYLES-SOME DRINKERS ARE AGRESSIVE SOME ARE MELLOW-SOME ARE ABUSIVE (VERBALLY AND PHYSICALLY) SOME GET SO STONED THEY PASS OUT BEFORE THEY EVEN OFFEND ANYONE

I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG YOUR LADY HAS HAD A DRINKING PROBLEM AND WHETHER SHE IS A TRUE ALCOHOLIC BUT BEWARE--IT'S A REAL RIDE

WOULD YOU LEAVE YOUR KIDS WITH AN ACTIVE A-I WOULDN'T--WOULD YOU LET AN ACTIVE A DRIVE YOUR KIDS TO SCHOOL OR TO DANCE LESSONS OR FOOTBALL PRACTICE-I WOULDN'T

SOME ALCOHOLICS WILL SEE THE LIGHT AND WITH PROPER GUIDANCE WILL HEAL THEMSELVES. I AM NOT A TRUE BELIEVER IN THE DISEASE THEORY BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT AA IS THE FIRST BABYSTEP FOLLOWED BY INDIVIDUALIZED THERAPY TO ADDRESS THE UNDERLYING PROBLEMS THAT MAY EXIST IN THE ALCOHOLICS MIND (AS IN DEPRESSION-ANXIETY-OR JUST DAY TO DAY COPING SKILLS)

ONCE AGAIN-YOU HAVE DECISIONS TO MAKE THAT ARE ONLY YOURS--I THOUGHT I COULD CHANGE THE WORLD AND AS DIFFICULT AS IT IS TO ADMIT IT "I WAS WRONG"

I COULD GO ON AND ON (IT'S CALLED BABBLE) BUT I WILL STOP

GOOD LUCK TO YOU--TALK WITH YOUR LADY AND MAYBE YA'LL CAN FIX THE ISSUE BEFORE IT DESTROYS

BY THE WAY--PAPERS ARE DRAWN AND THIS SO CALLED MARRIAGE WILL END SHORTLY----YET ANOTHER DEPRESSING SAGA

GOOD LUCK AND TAKE CARE OF THOSE KIDS...

RichardA · Member

JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY SOMETHING I SAID IN THE PREVIOUS POST---HER SON HAD MOVED IN WITH US BUT HE IS NOW GROWN AND ON HIS OWN-HE'S A GOOD KID

THANKS AND GOOD LUCK...

jj · ~*Service Worker*~

((((Rain)))))

Welcome!!

I just want to clarify one thing from your second post. When we alanoners concentrate on our selves we often become better parrents because instead of focusing on the disease( our addicted significant other) and being depressed beyond belief, we are learning to love, accept ourselves like we did before this disease consummed us aswell as our loved one. You may not be at that point yet but to many of us it does happen!! Often times us alanoners are ever sicker than the alcoholic.

After comming to this board and to alanon I realized just how much I was missing out on especially with my kids because I was depressed and alone. Now I am greatful and can be much happier than I was capable of before because all I did was concentrate on what I husband was or was not doing and all we did was fight it was sad really. The ones who deffinately do not deserve to be raised in that atmosphere are the kids. So what I am getting at is that we are ALL alot happier and more serene and have gratitude for more than we thought we had to be greatful for before.

I wish you the best and I will not tell you what you should do. Altimately you will know what to do when the time comes. You know that GUT feeling.... follow it.

JJ

Tammy · Senior Member

I think the pain will be a lot less now then in 10- or 15 years. I too would head for the hills. I have been married to my husband for almost 19 years and have two teenagers. I have just left my husband and believe me the pain is almost unbearable.

good luck, keep posting we are here

Tammy

nikkilou · Senior Member

Rain,

If i had to do it all over I would not. I have three great kids but their Dad is an A. The pain is unreal their is no way to tell someone about it. Here in alanon we all know we live with it. To tell someone outside who doesn't live with it their is no way. My kids don't have a choice their dad is their dad. I would in no way bring an A into my kids life. If he was not sober now I can tell you we would be gone. With kids I'm not sure how anyone lives with an A who is active. They say an A should not start a relationship the first year they are trying to get sober. They have to be very selfish and only work on them self. I would stay away from this relationship. That is only my opion if it were me. The truth is only you know what is best for you. Only you can make the choice. Please read many of the post here to get an idea of the ride your in for if you choice to stay in this relationship.

NIkkilou

UncleLou · Senior Member

After ready the wide range of replies to your post I can see why its recommended that we don't offer advice. Your experience will be what it is, not what someone else can predict. I know many people who have had horrible experiences with A's (just ask my ex, but now she's involved with another active one.) I also know couples who say that being married to an alcoholic was the best thing that ever happened to them. It led them to the Al-anon program which provided a life for them better than they ever dreamed of. Go figure.

I shared this a few weeks ago, I heard it at a meeting:

When I look at a cobblestone, I can see either a stubling block or a stepping stone. The only difference is MY perception. And sometimes that makes all the difference in the world.

Lou

lildee · Senior Member

Dearest Raincaster,

Firstly welcome to the site. And you are making a wise desicion to ask questions and learn about the disease of alcoholism & addiction.

In Ala-non no one can tell you what to do. You can listen to their stories and then choose for yourself.

I have been married for 25 years with two teenaged girls. Hubby's overt addictions didn't start until about 5 maybe 6 years ago. (After his parents died and he started using to numb the pain & grief.) Life with an addict has been a rollercoaster, affecting both myself and my children. This disease will run over anything in its path and take no survivors. I have had to deal with lying, cheating, stealing, both mental and physical abuse and insanity and chaos. (and that is on a good day LOL). Any remnants of trust have been shattered by the constant relapsing and lying about it. For me I had to work very hard to find my own happiness. Using the tools of the program I learned to detach from all of his nonsense, which for me was a hard thing to do. I was raised to believe in the union of marriage and love and caring for the other person. So detaching was problematic.

Life is hard with an addict. On the outside you would never believe that my hubby is an addict. He holds a good paying job and goes to work everyday, helps with the household chores (somewhat) and continues to function just as any other normal person. But underneath it all he is a stark raving addict. When he is using he is cold and distant , isolating in his own world. When he is trying to work his program he is off at meetings or on the phone with his sponsor or other fellowship members. So I had to learn to create my own happiness. To do what I wanted and remove the expectation of sharing a relationship. At times it feels as though we are two strangers living in the same house with completely different agendas.

As for my kids.... they too have been dragged along on this rollercoaster. They have been lied to, had promises broken and lost their trust and respect for their father. One daughter the older one is beginning to accept her fathers addiction. The other is filled with hate and rage for what he has done to our family. Their are times when I think she could literally kill him, if not spit in his face. So the disease affects all concerned. This is a minute piece of what life is like with an addict.

You asked :

What are the personality traits that go along with this disease? How reliable will she be? What other compulsive behaviours go along with this? Am I totally insane, and should I run for the hills? What other questions should I be asking?

traits.. lying ,cheating, stealing, broken promises, the possibility of abuse both mental and physical destroying and ideas you may have for a decent life, shame , guilt, resentments , irresponsible, dishonest, isolation, placing blame on you. Take your pick any of these can be present individually or all at once.

I know I had to make a lot of changes in my lifestyle and the way I live and think .

Would I run for the hills? Both yes and no. Yes because of all of his nonsense and no because if I were'nt married to him I wouldn't have my two girls, found the program, and regained my spirituality and my own self - worth. IMHO I think we each have our own threshold of what we will accept or won't accept. And living with an addict tests that threshold daily.

This is my story ... take what you want and leave the rest.

I can offer that you attend face to face meetings in your area, read Ala-non literature, pray and meditate on your situation. To find meetings in your area this is the official Ala-non site where you can look for meetings.

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/meetings/meeting.html

There is also a questioner on the site ... see if any of these apply to you....

Millions of people are affected by the excessive

drinking of someone close. The following

questions are designed to help you decide

whether or not you need Al-Anon:

1. Do you worry about how much someone

else drinks?

2. Do you have money problems because

of someone else’s drinking?

3. Do you tell lies to cover up for someone

else’s drinking?

4. Do you feel that if the drinker cared

about you, he or she would stop drinking

to please you?

5. Do you blame the drinker’s behavior on

his or her companions?

6. Are plans frequently upset or canceled

or meals delayed because of the drinker?

7. Do you make threats, such as, "If you

don’t stop drinking, I’ll leave you"?

8. Do you secretly try to smell the drinker’s

breath?

9. Are you afraid to upset someone for

fear it will set off a drinking bout?

10. Have you been hurt or embarrassed by

a drinker’s behavior?

11. Are holidays and gatherings spoiled

because of drinking?

12. Have you considered calling the police

for help in fear of abuse?

13. Do you search for hidden alcohol?

14. Do you ever ride in a car with a driver

who has been drinking?

15. Have you refused social invitations out

of fear or anxiety?

16. Do you feel like a failure because you

can’t control the drinking?

17. Do you think that if the drinker stopped

drinking, your other problems would be

solved?

18. Do you ever threaten to hurt yourself to

scare the drinker?

19. Do you feel angry, confused, or depressed

most of the time?

20. Do you feel there is no one who understands

your problems?

If you have answered yes to any of these

questions, Al-Anon or Alateen may be

able to help. You can contact Al-Anon or

Alateen by looking in your local telephone

directory or by writing to:

Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.

Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters (Canada) Inc.

www.al-anon.alateen.org

wso@al-anon.org

1600 Corporate Landing Parkway

Virginia Beach, VA 23454-5617

Phone: (757) 563-1600 Fax: (757) 563-1655

Capital Corporate Centre

9 Antares Drive, Suite 245

Ottawa, ON K2E 7V5

Phone: (613) 723-8484 Fax: (613) 723-0105

For meeting information call:

1-888-425-2666 (1-888-4AL-ANON)

(USA and Canada, Monday-Friday, 8 a.m.-6 p.m. ET)

Love and God Bless

lildee

raincaster · Member

I wish to thank you all for your honest and heart-felt responses. No, I am not ready to let go and run for the hills. Far from it in fact; I remain an optimist about our future together. Right now, we live in difference countries and seeing each other is infrequent. That has made it difficult to discern the true level of her addiction and its effect upon her. She says she is doing the AA thing for herself this time- time will prove her out. One of her kids remains in contact with her, and another wants nothing to do with her. I would really like to hear the story of each extreme. (I am an engineer, so I analyze the $%** out of everything)

Yes, I can see the manipulations, blame games, head games, etc. and I am left wondering how these will manifest themselves as our relationship matures.

BTW, I have reviewed the questions, and it is clear to me that I have NEVER had any part of my family involved in substance abuse before. I did have a brief stint with mj, but that was 3 decades ago. (shrug)

I know enough about As to know that when drinking, they are not safe. (protect my my kids, my heart, etc.) What I understand here is that they are not trustworthy unless they are recovering, not just sober. True?

Thank you again,
RC

-- Edited by raincaster at 16:27, 2005-09-20

Karilynn · ~*Service Worker*~

Raincaster,

First of all welcome.

As you can see by all the posts, we all have different perspectives. The one common thread is that we all focus on our recovery. The addict's recovery is thiers, and theirs alone. It's truly up to them. We owe ourselves, and deserve to be as healthy and as happy as we can. Our recovery is just as important as theirs.

My own story is that through all of this, I wouldn't change a thing. Yes, I would do it all over again. I was in love with my A long before the drinking became a problem. I am still in love with him. The difference is is that I have set a boundary with him. He can't come home until he gets sober and stays sober for at least 90 days. Is it hard? You bet. But I'm a strong woman. I know that I can do this. A lot of people encourage the recovering addict not to start new relationships in the first year. That their sole focus must be on their recovery. The professionals are not neccessarily wrong in that. However, the reality of most situations is that the A is involved in a relationship. There is no easy answer to this.

Your decision on whether or not to run for the hills, has to be yours, and yours alone.

I strongly encourage you to attend some Alanon meetings and some AA meetings. Gaining a perspective on what the A is going through is important. You might also want to read the Big Blue Book. There are readings for First Year Sobriety. (That was extremely helpful to me.) There are certainly plenty of readings from Alanon as well. They won't give you the answers as to whether or not to run for the hills. But they might help you make an informed decision.

Keep coming back to us.

Live strong,
Karilynn

Diva · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome to our little group raincaster. Good you found us. Living with an alcoholic can either drive you crazy, or you can get a firm grip on yourself straightaway and handle it well. Al Anon can help you do this, so please find a chapter near you and attend the meetings. You will find a wealth of information and knowledge there, and AlAnon is a life-saver for many, many people who would otherwise end up sicker than the alcoholic. "take what you like and leave the rest", is a slogan used in AlAnon, and it is a good one to remember. You may not strictly adhere to the tenets of AlAnon 100%, but you will learn to take care of yourself and put into perspective the behavior of the alcoholic.

Now for my opinion...I would advise you to run, not walk to the nearest exit, leaving this relationship as far behind as you can, but you have fallen madly in love with this woman, so a different light is shed upon the situation. In order to keep your serenity, you must read all you can on the disease and be comfortable that you have a firm grip on its manifestations. Alcoholics ARE compulsive people who often cannot be trusted, especially when they are drinking. Drinking ranks highest on their list of important things, to include you, your children, your relationship, your happiness...everything! Prepare for a bumpy ride, but if you decide you are willing to jump on that roller coaster you can be sure you are in my prayers and positive thoughts.

My very best wishes, Diva

raincaster · Member

Follow up

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"