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I am new to this. So far I just get on here and read the posts and cry. I am realizing how bad I need to talk to others who really understand me. Some of my friends are so great, but they just don't get it. They don't understand what I am really facing each day. They don't understand that life cannot just be simple and normal. When one partener checks out of the family and relationship for hours on end to drink it is very hard to accomplish what others think is just normal. You have to figure out how to go it alone part of the time and be parteners the other part of the time when the A decides to be available to the relationship.
But that wasn't what I wanted to talk about. How do you go about making important life decisions with an A?? When alchohol is clouding their judgement, or they can only see part of the picture and yet the decision needs to be made. I am not talking about small decisions, but big life changing/family changing decisions that effect many lives. My husband and I are currently planning to move out of state, away from all family and friends. Our children and all of the extended family are effected by this. I have agreed as I have seen many positive aspects of it, but the process of getting there has put so much stress in our lives. I have come to realize in the last few days that trying to do big stressful projects with an A is a frustrating experience. I am trying to learn to do what I can, and let the rest go, to God. But what I really want to know is am I nuts to be doing this in the first place?? I am not expecting anyone to tell me what is right for my life, that would be impossible, just want to know how do you make these important decisions with an A?
Why are you moving? You will lose alot of support it seems.
here is what happened in my life when I sold my house 2 years ago.
Our move
We sold our house and rented another house close to my job.
2 weeks before the move I was out of town on a business trip for 11 days. When I came back I took 2 weeks off to prepare to move.
I learned some things that I had suspected about my husband, he wakes up and drinks until he passes out, then wakes up and drinks some more. He helped a little with the packing but the laundry room, garage and his office (areas he needed to address) remained undone.
Well the movers came with too small of a truck and only 3 guys, we have a very large house. Hubby proceeded to chat them up, show them his civil war sword and an old coat from the 20's. Then he got bored and put a movie on to watch. The whole time I am supervising the movers and making sure things are done correctly. Well, sooner or later he locks himself in the bedroom with his bottle and passes out. By 5:30 it is apparent to the lead mover that there is many more hours of work to be done. He asks me if I would mind the move stretching for 2 days and I say fine, as I am exhausted. Well he calls the boss and he says there is a shortage of trucks as one is in for service and they have to finish tonight. Well, the boss is mad about the move taking so long and he comes to the house. Within 15 minutes he sees the state of things, hubby up now but disheveled , the bed is in the truck and under the bed is hubby's half empty bottle. Then boss yells at ME and soon 10-12 movers show up and start helping the original 3 movers. Then hubby locks himself in his office. One of the movers comes to get me and says they need to pack the office (it is a trashed up mess with paper everywhere. He said hubby locked in there and "privacy please" well I go in and tell hubby that the movers were coming in to pack up. He finishes on-line bill paying and agrees. I pack up the computer equipment and put it in hubbys vehicle. Hubby bossing the movers very badly (mean and stupid comments) so I suggest he go in the garage to watch his tools as the movers are eyeing them up.
This does not even include all of the details. Hubby was fired 3 years from a very good job. He has drank fairly heavily since then, always drank but this is the worst. He worked out of the house for the last 10 years and that is conducive to drinking for him...The old job at least he had to travel (drive) several weeks amonth so it kept him in check to a point. He now does not work at all.
Before we sold the house we sold our boat. While i was in Mexico for a month on business my husband was supposed to sell the boat. We had a buyer. All he hd to do was take the guy for a test ride and sell it. Instead he got drunka nd in a fight with the sales manager at the marina.
When I got home I put the boat for sale on the internet and dumped it quick for half its value
just my experince with my A. EVERYTHING is screwed up in some way with our life decisions and he is too sick to realize the root cause (his drinking)
WELCOME to alanon and keep coming back
megan
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Megan
If you want things you never had you need to do things you have never done
Welcome to alanon. I know what you mean about finding someone who understands what you're living with - you won't need to explain or justify to us.
In my experience, living with an alcoholic was isolating. I lived it and for a while, I was all alone. Now (still living with the alcoholic) I guard against isolating. I don't move unless it suits me, and I mean I need to live near family and friends. I cannot rely on one person to fill my needs, much less one so involved with himself. Do you need to decide this right away? Usually decisions made in haste are not as well thought out as those we can take time to pray and think about.
Hi, welcome to alanon. If you can get to a face to face meeting, I'm sure you will find it helpful - you will see that there are people right there in your own town, the librarian and the shoe salesman (or whatever) who are going through or have gone through just what you are. I guess for me, the way to make big decisions with an A is to really face reality, and not kid myself that I will get more help than I will, or that his behaviour will magically change because some part of our lives changes. So, the questions you need to ask yourself are - What do I really expect to get from this? Is this something *I* want to do, or is this some scheme of his? Do I have a secret agenda - am I thinking that a move will get him away from his drinking buddies, for instance? Do I have unrealistic expectations of how reliable he is?
None of us know the answers to any of these questions, but you do.
In my experience I have had to move to different states several times due to my A's job. What I have found is nothing changes. He finds a new bar to hang out in each state. It's the same old crap only in a different state. Is there any benefit to you in this move? Your family? Honestly, you have to think of YOU and if the move is best for YOU. In my case moving isn't really a choice since it's my A's job, but when we moved 2,500 miles from my extended family I felt isolated, lonely and miserable. I guess what I'm saying is don't count on your A to do anything differently then what he does now no matter where you move.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Kris here- thank you everyone for your replies. It really helped. Two things stood out to me. I need to approach this with balance (making sure the move benefits me and the kids) and really watching out for the isolation. I have my own set of problems that have led me into isolation over the years and I have been successfully working on the worst one for the last 6 months. (the condition of my home) But I know if we do move that it is going to be more important for me than ever to reach out and get a good strong support system in place through neighbors, church, recovery groups, etc. I had already decided to do that, whether my A cooperated with it or not, (he likes his isolation) but seeing the response about isolation really brought that point home to me again.
The other thing, the reason I say balance in making sure the move is good for me and the kids. For the last couple of years God has been showing me how I have been enabling, mothering, care taking, etc. So for the last couple of years I have been slowly turning things over to my husband whenever possible. It has been frustrating and scary at times, but he so far has always stepped up to the plate. I wouldn't advise this to everyone obviously, it depends on your situation. My husband is a mild drinker (beer only) he doesn't have drinking buddies, doesn't go out to drink, (in the garage only) I am not excusing his behavior, and it does still dramatically effect our lives, (he still spends far too much time alone, isolated from the family, drinking, and the other day was getting ready to run an errand after he had been drinking) just that he is still very responsible and still works hard and helps when neccessary.
A year and a half ago, I handed the finances over to him. It was the scariest thing I have ever done, but prayed and let go of my control because I just couldn't hold it together anymore, while he refused to face reality. We are still in too much debt, but to his credit the bills are always paid and he has really stepped up to the plate. I give over to him parenting decisions whenever possible and it has gotten him much more involved with the kids lives. This seems to work in my situation because my husbands issues are with his confidence and with strong women (his mom, me) that take care of everything for him. But obviously in some situations it wouldn't be the best idea to give more control of your life to the A. (so I am not giving advice) I struggle to remember though, when I make a decision like this that I am really not giving it to the A. I am giving it to God and letting Him deal with the A. I am learning to let go, and not try to take on the responsiblity of the world on myself.
I want to give him credit for that and for the fact that when I get out of the way, he does seem to step up and be responsible. He will do a lot to help with this move I know. My problem so far with getting the house ready for sale is that he has a very different standards than I do on cleaning and repairs, unfortunately his standards and below what most people expect. This has been confirmed by the comments of people coming through. So when I suggest something that really needs to be done, and it is something I can't do myself, if he doesn't want to do it than he will make a bunch of excuses why it doesn't need to be done or can't be done. It's a buyers market right now where we are and we need everything possible to make our house attractive. This is where I work myself into the ground (not taking care of myself) and worry about everything. This is where I wonder if I am insane for making a life decision like this with an A. Another area I need to remember to let go.
As far as the urgency, he has a job lined up where we are going and the offer will expire if we don't sell our house soon. I am really working on letting this all go to God. If our house doesn't sell because we don't have everything done and so we can't move, than we will have to stay, it will be ok. I need to remember that the changes I need to make to take care of myself and not isolate anymore can be made whether we move or stay.
Sorry to be long winded. Thanks for the feedback. Kris
I have made this move you are talking about. Infact we moved to different cities several times. All our problems followed us only I was left with out my support. I was truely alone and what should have been the happiest time in my life (the birth of our son) turned out to be the lowest piont in my life. If it wasen't for this new little baby that needed my care I don't know what I may have done to myself. True, I could lie to friends and family back home about how things were going but it didn't make up for what really was happening.
If you feel you want to go, do it. If you are unsure, do what is best for you and your kids. Don't be afraid.
Hi I too have moved thinking it to be God's will and the best thing for me and my kids. In reality I have been manipulated away from my support network. My 'a' engineered the situation so that he could drink more and without getting 'caught'. He doesn't drink loads either, only beer, and enjoys isolating himself. When he drinks he feels sorry for himself and blames everyone around him (namely me). I've spent 21 years thinking I was acting for the best and trying to keep our marriage together. I made vows for a reason. My husband says he drinks because he can. His past means he has a right to feel sorry for himself and it's my job to understand him. We've been separated 5 months now and my family, although not at all supportive have become VERY important to me, They are my reality. At home I'm no longer sure what reality is. BEWARE of isolating yourself from people who may not agree with your thinking BUT care about you. The people who get hurt the most are the kids involved, what ever their ages.
How ironic, you could have been describing my husband to a "T"!!!
Same issues, mostly drinks beer, only drinks isolated at home, has issues with strong women taking care of things, no motivation to fix up house to sell, yet eager to move out of state...SIGH!
I figured out that my husband's indifference towards the house is just another symptom of his alcoholism. Unless the house if burning down around him, he is content to sit and drink until he passes out everyday.
I have tried to get him involved with our daughter with little success. He just says that I can handle it.
I think that his wanting to move to another state is just fanciful thinking, the immature "grass is always greener" kind of thing. I know this due to the way he says it. He has our poor daughter scared to go on any vacation (like he ever would really go, HA!) as he says "once I get there I doubt I will ever come back". I would say to daughter "that is just an expression taht people use to describe how much they need a vacation". Then husband would say "NO, I really mean it, I would never come back, I would stay there". Then when people go to nice vacation spots and tell him about it he mocks them asking why they were dumb enough to ever come back. So, when daughter asks him if he is serious, that IF we ever take a vacation he will never let us come back home, he says "YES, I AM SERIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" in a very firm and angry tone. I believe him..but...I WOULD come back of course, even if I had to walk the whole way.
He expect ME to put things all together. He wants to galavant off and do his own thing and follow the rainbows edge while I stay behind here on earth and put house in order (with no money) and sell to whomever,"as is" at whatever loss and then follow him to wherever he is like a puppy dog...NOPE! If he wants to move out of state I am going to make him come back down to earth and arrange the whole thing, which I don't think he can. I did all it took to buy this house. In fact, all he did was sign on the dotted line...SERIOUSLY...the real estate agent and loan officer laughed and joked about it. I had done all of the talking, letter writing, negotiating and wheeling and dealing. All he did was sit there and act deaf and stupid and like he could not hear or understand English. Then, at the VERY END I just told him where to sign, put an "X" by the line, turned it to that page, put the pen in his hand and put the page in front of him and said "sign it now". And he did as told (believe me this is the exception rather than the rule).
It will be my turn to be "helpless" and suddenly "inept" and not able to understand anything that the experts tell me. I will suddenly pretend that my arms are broken and I cannot move and cannot hear somehow and that I don't understand English.
I won't go with him, I worked hard to have a good job I like here. I am just not up to following his flights of fancy all over the country and squandering the only thing really important to me materially, having a nice house in a safe neighborhood. I know that the grass is not always greener, let him find out on his own.
He has a good job, but like most alcoholics, hates working as it cuts into drinking time. He is like a giant kid, he "threatens" to quit his job whenever he does not get his way. If I don't give him gas money (even though he has plenty of money to buy his expensive imported beer and drinks in VAST quantities) he threatens to quit his job. I KNOW he means it also, as he HAS done this before. What would happen to me if I moved with him and he did this? I have networked enough and for long enough to be able to land another job here if I really needed one, so if he made good on his threat I would be "OK". I am not so sure that would happen if we moved as quickly.
I am reminded of a quote from star wars "Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him?"
Kris here - Thank you everyone for your replies, it gave me a lot to think about and be aware of. I know that I am supposed to be learning to take care of myself and making good decisions for myself would be at the top of that list.
So far things aren't looking too good for the move. This may just be God's protection for us from a very bad decision, or it may be a "right timing" kind of thing. But I am still glad that we went through the process, even though it has been a lot of hard work. One of the biggest issues in my marriage has been my husband letting me handle everything in our personal life. In the past I would just say NO, I am not doing that. Because I knew the every day reality would fall on me to handle. (i.e., letting the kids have a new pet!) He could be the "fun and cool" dad, always saying yes, and never having to deal with teaching the kids to actually take care of the pet, I would deal with the potty training, etc.) The problem with me just refusing was, even though I was protecting myself and making a good choice, it gave him the out of always blaming me. He could sit back and wallow in self pity because he didn't get to do this wonderful thing that he wanted to do, and it was all because of me. And of course he was the hero in the kids eyes, and Mom the bad guy.
This time, I have fully cooperated with the idea to move and have worked very hard to make things happen, even though I had some serious doubts. So if it falls through he will not have me to blame and think life could be better if only I "let" him do what he wants or thinks best. So in the end even though it has been a very tough process to go through for what seems like nothing, at least I am learning what it means to "get out of the way". Now he will have to hash out things with God and can't point to me.
In the beginning of this process I was very fearful of "following" my husband if he was making a mistake. My friends and family told me that I needed to move my focus from my husband to God and trust that He would lead us and they turned out to be right. I see now that all my fears were for nothing. If my husband were making a huge mistake, I prayed and asked for wisdom and guidence and for the right doors to open and close and in the end it looks like for now God has stopped him. I "got out of the way". Maybe if I keep learning to do that, God will finally be able to deal directly with my husband instead of me trying to always deal with him.
