The material presented
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I am glad to have finally been able to tap into the support and encouragement offered by Al-Anon via a message board. I don't have an Al-Anon group that is close to my home, so I am looking in this area for some guidance, support and encouragement.
I am familiar with the 12 steps and have been reading the al-anon guides that I purchased online. While I look forward to embracing all of the steps, I have some overriding questions about the overall idea of "loving detachment". Specifically, my perspective on the disease of alcoholism is tempered by my career choice - I am a family law attorney. Yes, I support those who are divorcing, engaging in custody battles and litigating child support amounts. As you can imagine, a high percentage of clients who retain me have a loved one who is struggling with some kind of addiction. I see every day what alcoholism does to families and kids and the emotional price that is paid. I have been educated in addiction, co-dependency and the importance of boundaries. However, none of that intellectual knowledge helped me when I fell head over heels in love with an alcoholic.
I met my A about 14 months ago, and feel head over heels in love. He is a brilliant man, with a sensitive heart and beautiful smile. He is a highly functioning A, and comes from a family where his mother and father are both alcoholics. Not until we moved in together, did I realize (or take off my denial blinders) to the overwhelming nature of his addiction. I feel so devestated - how could I have put myself is a situation that is so emotionally painful after seeing what this disease does to relationships? I feel like such a hypocrite - on one hand advising clients to establish boundaries and re-focus on what they need and deserve in a relationship, all the while knowing that my A will be drunk by the time I get home at night.
I am trying to reconcile the idea of loving detachment with the idea of deserving to be in a relationship that meets my emotional needs. I am thankful at this point that we are not married and have no children. I think some days I would lose my mind if I had to juggle that as well.
I am stuggling to find answers for myself and for how I need to deal with situations involving my A. He is in counseling and has been to AA, but will go a few days without drinking and then goes right back to it again. It is progressing to the point where he falls down the stairs, falls out of bed, or even takes his prescription medication that is not supposed to be taken when drinking. At what point do I step in to prevent possible serious injury? I don't know where the line is with not saving him from himself (i.e. making up excuses to cover his drinking, which I no longer do) and taking an active role in preventing him from hurting himself physically due to his drinking. I would appreciate any imput and advice, as well as prayers - I know that I need it.
Hi and Welcome - Have you been to any f2f (face to face) Al-anon meetings? Along with this board and our on-line meetings they will help you work the steps for you - much different than applying them to strangers as you have learned,
Somewhere in our literature it describes the difference between detaching and detaching with love. When the a falls asleep on the floor we start to detach by stepping over him and going to bed and to sleep. When we detach with love we cover him with a blanket and go to bed and to sleep.
You bring back a lot of memories. I stopped making excuses for him and let him deal with the consequences of his actions. I stopped worrying about whether he would hurt himself or not and turned him over to his Higher Power. However, I was prepared to call 911 if I felt he was injured seriously. Sometimes I wished he would be hurt - just enough - so it would get his attention. :):) I think a's have special angels looking over them who seem to keep them from harm.
For a lot of years I tried everything. I really expected him to get sober by himself - he was so intelligent and such a great guy - sensitive and caring - how could he not see what he was doing to himself.
Al-anon tells us to say what we mean and mean what we say so if you set some boundaries make them what you can live with.
Glad you're here - keep coming back and sharing with us.
I read your post lastnight and was in to much of a negative mood to post as I have been contemplating my future. When I first found this board I was soooo lost and at my witz end with my A. This place has saved my sanity. The support of everyone here is wonderful!!!!! Many of the people here have become friends and I value their shares. They say we should not use this board and meetings as a substitute for the real thing but its purpose is great for thoes of us that are unable to make it to real meetings.
I have been with my AH for 10 and 1/2 years and we have 2 children, knowing what I know now I do not regret my kids there for I can not regret staying and getting married but if I could have my wonderful kids and avoid beeing married I would have.....Catch 22...We are not supposed to give advise here but a thought for you.... Can you picture your life in 10 years with this man and have children if you want them being happy knowing what you already know??? I ask this because you mentioned you have seen the affects of alcoholisim on families and the affects it has on the kids.. This is a family disease...
The person I was and the person I am now because I let the disease take control of my life as well is overwhelming for me and I don't like what I see. It is something that I am working on, taking MY life back, getting control of MY life again. I had no idea how this disease has made me sick until I hit my bottom 3 months ago...
I am glad you are here!!!! This man you love is lucky to have you in his life as you know what this disease does to people.. I have posted in the past the steps explained and you should read them they help alot. When you physically do step 4 I think that any questions you may have about yourself might be answered, it might make you angry at first but it helps!!!! I think this is on page 3 but not sure. Please let me know if you find it.
None of us plans to be in a relationship with an A we may meet the man of our dreams and know that he is a heavy drinker but hey aren't lots of people. It's not until the serious drinking sets in later and we see the drinking affecting their jobs, their health, their relationships ect that we come to the cold hard reality that our loved one has a relationship with alcohol that is very strong and very serious.
It doesn't matter that we may be educated, intelligent and even trained in detail on such matters. When it happens to be our partner we are POWERLESS over it.
One of the big phrases we use in alanon is the three C's
We didn't Cause
We can't Control it
We Can't fix it
I struggled with accepting my situation for a long time I was always WHY WHY WHY which of course doen't help us to move on to acceptance OK What are we going to do now?
The answers are very hard to find because a lot of the A's behaviour does not make sense to us it is irrational, crazy, alcohol induced or alcohol craving behaviour. The more we try to rationalise it out in our minds the more confused we get.
Basically we have to let our A's make their mistakes, not cover for them, face up to their behaviour and responsibilities and let them recover in their own time in their own way.
And we have to concentrate on ourselves living and enjoying our own lives whether or not our A's are drinking or recovering.
You will find a lot of lovely people here who are loving and supporting snd practice the al-anon path to recovery, chat room is great too, keep coming back.
Your share is quite interesting, as it has me reflecting on much of the feelings I experienced while dating an A of three years. During that on/off relationship I struggled to come to the realization that as much as I love this man that I needed, wanted more for me in a relationship. I wanted someone who reciprocated the love and struggled because I felt selfish knowing that he had this disease. However, as time progressed I realized that I was truly the one being selfish in not wanting to face so much pain in leaving him to deal with his own addictions and/or allowing him to live the life that he CHOOSES to live. It wasn't until I began a domestic violence training session for 2 weeks that I could relate to how addictions relate to so much abuse at ALL levels, emotionally, physically in some cases, and mentally. All in which contribute greatly to our overall well-being. As I trained in this program and met women in shelters, hearing of their experiences, I began to learn more each day of how much manipulation is contributed in relationships indirectly and saw that most of these men don't even realize how they are being abusive in all realms. Don't get me wrong, not ALL alcoholics are abusive and not all abusers drink so I'm not not labeling anyone, but the point I'm getting at here is that I realized that to some extent the neglect or distance that my a had developed in our relationship was truly abusive to me-- particularly how it affected my optimism and success for my life. It was so draing. While going through this training, I learned so much about the red flags in UNHEALTHY relationships and in doing so went through the same process as you. Feeling like a hypocrite because I was there to help people and how could I not have my life together basically in choosing these unhealthy relationships. In turn, I finished the training and never went back to volunteer in the program. Initially, I struggled with that decision until I came to a peace about it and the guilt I felt in not demonstrating in my life what I thought I wanted to help others with ultimately lifted and a greater understanding came with peace in discovering that the TRUE reason why I believe this awareness came in the form of me helping others was given to me by God to offer insight into my own life. I've grown alot from then in realizing that it was myself I needed to work on rather than anyone else... That the addiction of another person is NOT my responsibility. Additionally, it gave me insight of how I did NOT want to be treated, alcoholic or not-- we all have choices, whether we have a disease or not. Alcohol is NO DIFFERENT than someone with a physical handicapp who strives to still succeed. It took me about 2 years after this training and feeling guilty that I didn't continue to pursue this volunteer program to find peace with finally realizing that this relationship with the A (who I will love with my entire heart the rest of my life) was not the relationship I needed to be in that was good for me. A friend also told me something very insightful as well. You do not have to be in a relationship with someone to love that person. :))) This is so true and at some point, I do believe that we need to put our own selfishness of how WE feel in NEEDING to be in the relationship, acting as if we are some sort of savior to that person because we are patient, kind, and face our own hurt and fear of being alone. I believe that ultimately when we stay in these relationships the issue is MUCH deeper within ourselves and can talk from experience of someone who has come from so much abuse at every realm from a two year old child on...... As much as we love someone and hope the best for them.. just being there time and time again with our patience or kindness never allows them to be held accountable for thier own lives. I may sound cold, but truly have one of the most compassionate, sensitive hearts a person can have-- I just know that I'm NOT God and that sometimes people need to fall to ultimately have a relationship with God and being there for them can stand in the way of that growth in themselves.
Thanks to everyone here for giving me some great things to think about.
I know that I struggle alot with trying to not be a rescuer, because that is primarily how people view me in my job setting. People present to me with an emotional legal crisis, and I am expected to "fix" it for them. It is hard for me to turn that need to help off when it comes to someone that I love so dearly. I know that everyone here has struggled with that in dealing with their own A. I have to keep the three "C"s in mind when it comes to my personal situation. Obviously, as an attorney, keeping as much control over your case is what makes you good at your job. It's hard to do the exact opposite at home, I guess. But I just need to remember to take things day by day as they come along.
In dealing with family crisis on a daily basis at work, it makes me wonder if there is such a thing as a "normal" relationship without any kind of abuse, whether physical, verbal or emotional. So if that it true, does it come down to the level of abuse in determining the health of the relationship? I know that I may be trying to rationalize alot of this instead of just letting go and letting God handle it. I was to feel empowered, but end up feeling helpless.
I have not reached out to my family for support because my mother's father died of alcoholism, and she has always demonized alcohol and alcoholics because of her own experience. I don't know if reaching out for support there would help me because she has never moved past her own co-dependency issues related to her childhood. Does anyone have thoughts about these kind of support systems? My greatest fear would be that I would be blamed for falling in love with this man who has this disease. Her own fear would project as pity for me and it is hard to feel empowered when your own mother feels pity for you. If someone has any thoughts about good/bad support systems, if would be great if you could give me some pointers.
You asked if there was any kind of a relationship without any kind of abuse.
Maybe I am being optimistic, but yes there is. Abuse should not be part of a true loving relationship. Being involved with alcoholics I believe we begin to rationalize how much abuse is too much.
Being a family law attorney, you probably see mostly the families that are in trouble, and in those, yes abuse usually does exist in some form.
Someone posted a while back, something that keeps going around in my mind as true.
At what point do I step in to prevent possible serious injury?
You are only responsible if you trip him! No one wants to see our loved ones hurt, but if you save him from injury, how will he know or feel what he's done to himself. If you keep saving him from whatever, you make him invincible, (did I spell that right?) because he won't have to pay for anything he's done.
I don't know where the line is with not saving him from himself.
He's not a child. If he can figure out where to go to drink, where to get it, he'll figure out how to get up if he falls. If he can't get up, well so long as you didn't push him, maybe then he'll reach for help in AA. If not, you just gotta wait until he hits his real "bottom". Each alcoholic has their own bottom, & only they know what it is. Our bottom is not the same as their bottom.
Keep coming back.
-- Edited by De Anna at 23:58, 2005-04-02
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Come back when you need us, come back, we need you.
Your friend, ~De Anna~ 8-D
Originally posted by: De Anna "At what point do I step in to prevent possible serious injury? You are only responsible if you trip him! No one wants to see our loved ones hurt, but if you save him from injury, how will he know or feel what he's done to himself. If you keep saving him from whatever, you make him invincible, (did I spell that right?) because he won't have to pay for anything he's done. I don't know where the line is with not saving him from himself. He's not a child. If he can figure out where to go to drink, where to get it, he'll figure out how to get up if he falls. If he can't get up, well so long as you didn't push him, maybe then he'll reach for help in AA. If not, you just gotta wait until he hits his real "bottom". Each alcoholic has their own bottom, & only they know what it is. Our bottom is not the same as their bottom. Keep coming back. -- Edited by De Anna at 23:58, 2005-04-02"
I guess my struggle is more of a moral one as far as trying to save him from serious injury. Obviously, I don't want him to physically hurt others (i.e. drunk driving), but the line is less clear as far as overdosing with his mix of alcohol and prescription meds for his anxiety and depression. It bothers me from a moral standpoint not to get involved if I think he might be in severe physical distress. I have had two instances of being seconds away from calling 9-1-1 because he was choking in his sleep, and I was really, really scared. I guess the ultimate answer is that everyone's boundary is different when it comes to this type of involvement.
Another question that I have is how al-anon's principles fit with interventions. I don't know that the two have the same motivations regarding self-care. I did see an episode of the A&E show, Intervention, last week and was wondering how this type of confrontation fits with the idea of letting the addict hit their own bottom and decide to get help.
Sorry for all the questions - these things have been tumbling around in my head for months.
Someone once told me that an intervention was basically forcing a person to see their bottom in a gentle but firm way.
It is a way of trying to break through the wall of denial. They said that sometimes confronting a person with all of the ways their drinking had hurt the ones they love and themselves in a group setting could make them open their eyes. I was also told, they do not work often, and can be very damaging if not done properly.
I can recommend the books "Getting them sober". They have provided to me some real life guidance for the care and feeding of an A - just kidding. They are guidlines for living with an alcoholic.
As far as sharing with your family your situation - I did share with my brothers and sisters a few weeks ago my situation. They have been very very supportive. This is after many months of working my program and getting stronger
my mother was an adult child of an alcoholic and had attended some alanon meetings for this. Some meetings are geared just for this purpose. (My mother has passed)
Read read read, attend face to face alanon meetings. As you are better able to understand yourself you will gain the insight to deal with your situation
take care
megan
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Megan
If you want things you never had you need to do things you have never done
Welcome Mad4stevie