The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I don't know if this is a recent upsurge of certain things happening, or if I just didn't notice it before. At any rate, since we have a lot of newcomers and others who are not able to attend face to face meetings, I just thought I would mention a few things. My humble opinion here.Take what you like and leave the rest. Would be glad of input from others also.
At face to face meetings, usually there is a chairperson who will start the meeting, read the Al-Anon preamble, and so on. People usually will not interrupt this person while they are reading this, as what is being read is the first introduction to Al-Anon that many of us hear, and well usually only one person talks at a time. Courtesy. This is a reason for the "no crosstalk", to show courtesy to others and allow them their turn speaking.
At our online meetings, we follow the same format as face to face meetings. The chairperson will start the meeting and the first thing in the script is the Al-Anon Welcome. This welcome introduces us to Al-Anon. It gives us our first glimpse at what the program can offer to us. It may give some the first hope they have had in a very long time. While this script is running, it is the same thing as the chairperson reading it in a face to face meeting. Would we sit there and chatter back and forth during that time? I would hope not. How would anyone then hear what Al-Anon can offer us? Typing while the script is being run is distracting. It breaks up the message. And if you are typing, maybe you are missing the message being run. There are instructions at the end of the script that explain how to raise your hand in meeting, how long shares should be, how the chairperson will call on you in the order hands go up. There is also a short message about sharing our Experience, Strength and Hope (ESH) in our shares. This is what meetings are about. Sharing how we have used the tools, giving hope to others, showing them through our experiences how they too might find serenity. Meeting days and times are given in the script. Links to our message board and other information is given.
We welcome each person to the floor after the Chairperson has called on them. We give them the courtesy of our attention as they speak, without interrupting them. We thank them for their share when they are done. I personally do not share in order to hear what anyone has to say on what I am saying, or even to hear whether they relate or not. I am simply sharing my ESH, and when I am typing, if someone crosstalks it can be very distracting and cause me to lose my train of thought. I know this is true for others as well. Things that I need to work out, to discuss with other members, I either use open chat time or the message board for that. I feel that is the proper place for it. For me, meetings are where I go to hear ESH. I would like for newcomers to hear ESH, to be given some hope, rather than hear problems being vented or negativity. I feel meetings ought to leave you with a good feeling, like it has helped you to see a way of climbing out of that deep well of despair. I feel strongly about this. I do understand we get newcomers who come in. Some have a need to share right away. I too was once a newcomer and needed to tell my story. I had no ESH to offer then, but I did need to talk. My face to face meetings would reserve the last 10 minutes for newcomers for that purpose. Currently we do not have any set format like that, we call on whoever raises their hand. I do not mind this kind of share from a newcomer. They are what keeps Al-Anon alive and we need them. I'm always glad to see a newcomer come in. If they need to talk, great! If they just want to listen, that's fine too. Hopefully there will be lots of ESH for them to hear, and there is always open chat time afterwards to sit and talk and ask and answer questions.
When I have to leave my face to face meeting early, or when I arrive late, I try to be quiet and courteous and not draw attention to myself, as usually someone is speaking at those times. I try and be the same way at online meetings. Again it is just a matter of trying not to interrupt anyone, being courteous. At my face to face, the only person speaking is the person who has the floor. No hi's or bye's as people come and go. We try to show respect and caring by giving our full attention to whoever is speaking. If people arrive late, or need to leave early, we simply understand without needing any explanation that they have a reason for this.
These are just observations, thoughts, feelings I have. If they help others to understand better, that's nice. If you disagree with me, that's okay too. *smile* If you agree with me, let's do lunch! LOL (my humor...heehee) Thanks for listening and letting me share.
Luv, Kis
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Let your light shine in the darkness. "I can't just bring my mind to meetings...I must also bring my heart."
I am always learning something new in Al-Anon Kis, despite my 5 years in the program (only 5 months in chat though). And I did learn something new from your share. Thank you.
When and where shall we meet for lunch??
Maria
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If I am not for me, who will be? If I am only for myself, then who am I? If not now, when?
I agree with every point made in your note and I am so glad you presented those points here on the message board. Hopefully, newcomers as well as old timers will be enlightened and reminded of the format of our on-line meetings. For me, I appreciate the reminders and I will be more aware of this when in a meeting. Thanks, Kis.
Love in recovery - Jeri (Shimo)
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The ultimate lesson all of us have to learn is unconditional love, which includes not only others but ourselves as well. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross
Thank you Kis, for clarifying the rules. They really weren't made clear to me in the past, but it makes sence that we would want to treat our online meetings just as if we were f2f.
I especially agree with with your comment of :
I would like for newcomers to hear ESH, to be given some hope, rather than hear problems being vented or negativity. I feel meetings ought to leave you with a good feeling, like it has helped you to see a way of climbing out of that deep well of despair.
When someone just vents (and this is my opinion only) it brings me down. I don't attend "meetings" to hear other people vent, but to grow within, to figure out how to learn to use the tools given me. Yes, it's good to know that others are in the same situation, but I too feel it should be saved for normal chat. Most of us have lived years with an A, we can wait until a meeting is over to vent and ask questions.
I actually went and took a shower one day while someone was venting at a meeting. I'm sure that was not good etiquette!!..lol But, I just couldn't sit there when I was feeling so hopefull to learn.
Christy (Cjo)
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
As I said to you last night when I first saw this article in the chatroom, I think it is great. The only thing now that didn't work for me is when I went to this mornings meeting and it was being implemented and alot of us didn't know what to do since we/they are so use to at least giving a hug or a smile to acknowledge that we understand someones pain or know they need a hug. IT was strange to watch the entire talk without this because in a real face to face meeting we can smile at someone or show a look of concern on our face. I was so hurt to see this implimented so fast from just your opinion here and alot of people in the room were so confused on what crosstalk is. Wouldn't it be better to wait and discuss any changes such as these at a group meeting? Are we getting so into rules here that we cannot even hug anyone when they need it? If someone is helping with the meeting and they are in black color instead of read it looks like crosstalk too in my opinion and confuses the matter even more. I noticed that people thanked the OPs during the end script too. How are we suppose to know what to do if it is not explained before the meeting or when people like me come in late due to logical reasons? It just crushed me when a new person shared such strong emotions and all we could do was watch and give not even one hug as feedback. Is this what JOHN/OP the owner wants? Isn't that why we have group meetings to discuss this stuff before major changes are made? Anyway,,,,,I think it still is a good idea. The sudden change without adequate explanation was just too hard for my loving nature to hold back. cdb
PS from me; I just read the part about venting. Gees when I first came here I must have vented all the time because I don't even remember the first 3 months. Do we have to put a highlighted message up now too that says NO Venting during meeting,,,,Only people with ESH talk please. And how do we distinguish between what a vent is or is not. I have listened to some people too that have ESH and felt like they were trying to cram some rules down my throat that they believe maybe I needed to hear...are we not here for new people to feel welcomed , loved and understood. IN fact we all need to feel this way. Don't we as humans need to say what comes out of our hearts at that time in a meeting or do we have to write our script before the meeting so we make sure it does not involve venting? Sorry to be so harsh here, but I am not use to seeing someone talk about a possible change 10 hours before and then going to a meeting that suddenly changed from a post that says "take what you want and leave the rest" only to find what is in the post being implemented already. cdb grateful member
Thank you for the post Kis. There were a lot of good reminders. The goal of the online meetings is to be as close to a F2F as possible, for many people cannot attend them for whatever reason, and coming here is the only meeting that they have. One thing I really like about the meetings here, is that we get people from all over the world, and we are all united under one thing, we are all affected by someones drinking. In my time here, I have come to see so many different things about myself, that I never saw before. I have found the will to change what I need to change for me and not for anyone else. This group is the best! Luv you guys. I do agree..... would we like someone chit chatting during our share at a F2F???? I doubt it. By the way, lets go to a nice steak house, not Mcdonalds. LOL
Hi Kis... just want to say thanks for topic... it prompted me to reply and as a result I got properly registered with MIP...so was a good thing.... just want to say I respect your opinion but would like to say that when I first came in here and started meetings on line it was the warm feeling that I got from everyone in here that made me keep wanting to come back... Part of that warm feeling came when I decided to share and I got simple relates and nods and hugs or smiles from people and some were HOSTS that were hosting at the time... that made me feel I was being LISTENED to... I have been to f2f meetings and sometimes they werent always such warm experiences for me as these rooms have been... I thank HP for helping me find ALL of you here because without you there were days I just could have lost my mind... The warmth that I was shown and the understanding that I was shown and the thought that I was actually being listened to for a change by someone made such a difference to me.... for those of you who have been here for such a long time , maybe you dont remember that first feeling of being so afraid to speak or to talk to let things out.. the encouragement from others weather it be a smile or hug or nod just helped so much to know that I was not alone and just typing to myself and not relating to anyone...I know that we can comment when they are done .. but simple nods and smiles I welcomed just so I didnt feel so afraid of coming out of my shell.... Has it been that long for ALL of you older alanoners that you dont remember that feeling ???? I just wanted to share MY opinion with all of you and let you know my FEELINGS on this delicate subject... no matter I still will KEEP COMING... I LOVE YOU ALL... thanks terry
Ty Kis..and all who have responded to her initial posting. All of you have very compelling points. I do have to say that I too have been guilty of (((hugs))) and relates during someones sharing.... but I can tell you from personal experience, that, as Kis states having someone type something when i'm "on a roll" has caused me to lose my train of thought.
Tiredtonight also hit a nerve in me that i hadnt even really consciously noticed. And that is the case where when i am sharing at a ftf meeting people who have made facial expressions to me have actually caused me to feel bad. Like what I was saying was wrong somehow and that has just thrown me way off of what i was trying to share.
And i have seen times in the chatroom when someone was sharing something that was hard for me to decide...is this person sad or happy about a particular thing.. and some one will put in a smiley face or an sad face..and it wind up being the wrong reaction, if you understand what I am saying. This always makes me feel a little bad... so I have to think it might be best for us just to wait to give those hugs after the person is finished speaking.
I also agree with cdb that it might be a great topic to bring up at the next business meeting.
And Buzzfree, well he hit the nail on the head for sure!......let's all meet at a steakhouse...if I gotta travel....let's eat good!
By the way....are you buying Kis, or this gonna be dutch?
Wow. OK, first off I'll say I am definitely a newbie at the online meetings, and wasn't aware of these rules before coming in. I think (hope?) that I have managed to conduct myself fairly well. If I've upset anyone or especially if I offended anybody please let me know.
I try to hang around afterwards... if I'm doing something dumb please just let me know during the open chat. I will not get upset, although I might get embarassed... but you can be sure I've had worse. :)
I am here to learn. I try to leave my ego at the door.
Cloud is a new member here, only 6 days young and asked If I would put her suggestion here,,,,,so here goes:
This morning in the meeting two people spoke that were in real need of hugs....and not after they spoke but during. One person even asked us for hugs while they talked saying they were having a bad day and really needed to feel that warmth when they were typing. Clouds suggestion is that if a person feels when it is their turn to share that they be able to communicate before they share it they want nods, smiles or hugs during their share. I thought that was a good idea too.
Now, what I have noticed is sometimes a monitor/OP in red will give a hug when it is obvious a person needs one,,especially a new person that may be crying or in serious pain. Since monitors/OPs are not suppose to govern, I feel they should not be exempt from no crosstalk either. I did myself give a hug too just following the Ops lead. One other thing is somteimes a person is helping to chair the meetings and is not in a red color and will be talking. This too could be confusing to some thinking that crosstalk is allowed because that person whose typing is in black is doing it. Just a thought.
As far as no crosstalk being used for many years in alanon....this is a computer and not a face 2 face meeting. When someone mentioned how they left the computer once so not to hear a persons share they didn't care for here and take a shower,,,I was glad for thier honesty. But it did point out that we are on a computer after all and that the nods, hugs, smiles help a computer seem more humanlike. And we may as humans need to get them during our share to feel communicated back to. Maybe some have other motives for not wanting crosstalk? Could it be it wouldn't be noticed that they are not listening? Could it be they only want to listen to some and not others and this is a way for others not to notice? Could it be they are also in PM which would not happen at a face to face meeting either. This is all food for thought. But as for me, I like at least the nods, smiles and hugs. They do not take up that much space. Sure, leave out the agrees and one word comments but leave the hugs with maybe ((C)) first name initial. How much space and time do those 3 things take up anyway? cdb grateful member
What a wonderful topic! Thank you, Kis. When I first came through the doors of Alanon a few months ago, I had no idea what I should expect from the members or what they expected from me. Through the program I have learned the answer is that same for both...ESH. I, however, did not understand the word "crosstalk". I have come to understanding of the meaning and the damage crosstalk can do.
As we have all been affected by this disease, we are at varying levels in it's progression...just as we are in varying levels in our recovery. As members of Alanon, our illness has been to try to fix another....so once crosstalk begins...we in our illnesses may feel the need to join others to give our input, advice, or opinions. We lose sight of experience, strength, and hope...and may make the new person feel attacked or make them feel they have to do things our way or they don't belong.
Thanks, Kis...for reminding us..."It works...if we work it...cause we are worth it!!
I have been posting alot lately lol i will cool down. but i kind of see us falling as a group should be this way or that way or this way and guidelines say this that or the other thing. new comers and regulars need to be aware of things are being said or the new rules that come Then the ops need to make sure that what the "group" whole group wants and make sure that is being done. As for the venting. I do have ESH plenty of it. But i am not able to give it at the moment and i have been venting alot about my mom, but that is because i dont know what to do and i have lsot some faith and i fell like im going over the edge last week not this week so much. But i am sure i will feel that way again sometime soon as my mother is about to die. I am very sorry if this bothers people, but i need to get these things out of my head if you choose not to read i will not take it personally. But venting is all i can do at times. There in my opinion to much being said and not to everyone that needs to know cause i didnt know about any of this till now. And im sure alot of other people dont either. This needs to be done as a group in my opinion not a few of us. I hope no one takes this as offensive. But remember alanon says Take What ya like :) I know yas still luv me hehehhe. I want us back i want us to focus on us and be their for eachother listen learn and share. I hope we can do it.
kerry
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Life can only be understood backwards, But it must be lived forwards
I was so impressed with the inital post regarding our meeting etiquette and the responses to it that I felt it was worthy of being placed at the top of our board.
When I am sitting in a face to face meeting, and someone is sharing, I look at them as I am listening. I may have a expression of concern on my face, or I might nod indicating that I am hearing them and relating to what is being said. I will often smile or even laugh when what is being shared is somewhat humorous. I have even found myself with a lump in my throat, and my eyes tearing up because I can see and feel their pain.
I do not make any statements, or respond to what is being shared in a verbal sense while a person is sharing. I remain silent, and in the little ways stated above, let the person know that I am listening, they are being acknowledged, and in these ways let them know that what they are sharing is being recieved. Should I want to provide the person with some feedback on what they shared, I do not do it while in the meeting, but at times I may approach them and talk with them after the meeting. During the meeting when I share, I stay focused on my own experience, strength and hope and thats what I share. I try to stick to sharing "what it use to be like, what happened and what its like now". While my share my be related to something someone else has shared, I avoid any statements that would take the focus off my own experience, strength and hope and I absolutely refrain from stating anything in the form of a direct suggestion, or advice to the other person. When I share, I avoid addressing any individual in the group, so as to avoid letting the meeting become all about one persons issues.
As an older member of the recovery process, I have adopted a personal policy of sharing my "mess" with my sponsor and "the message" of recovery in the rooms. I believe we all know the chaos, the conflict, the anger, the saddness, the fears. When I share, I try to share the solution as it unfolded for me in this process. I attempt to share in a way that lightens up the spirit of the hurting. I may share in a way on some things that most find humorous and respond to by laughing. But the laughter is usually a direct result of and response to people being able to relate. And lastly I often share what was shared with me by my sponsor in early recovery. This is "carrying the message". If its my own version of recovery, instead of the one that was passed down to me through generations of members before me, I am most likely only going to share a mess, and not the message.
I take absolutely no offense to seeing a smiley face :) put in the room during a share that has humor attached to it. I see nothing wrong with providing someone who has stood by a boundary for the first time a smiley face in congradulations of the courage they showed. When what is being shared saddeneds my heart, and I can feel their pain, I see nothing wrong with letting them know it with a sad face :*( And I know that when I shared about my fathers death, and then my mothers death, my son going to prison, my fears going through back, lung and brain surgeries, etc... all the hugs (((((John)))))) I got as I shared really were needed and wanted and valued by me. Those hugs let me know that you felt me, even though you couldn't actually see me, and you comforted me even though you couldn't actually touch me. Those hugs reached me and touched my heart. So, I value our smiles, frowns, "relates" and hugs. I think it gives our cyberspace rooms a sense of compassion, understanding, love and humanity that we all need.
Lastly, everyting has a right time and place. And what seems most important to me is at the begining and end of a persons share. Are we acknowledging them at the begining with a warm "hi" "hello" or "welcome" ? Are we acknowledging having heard them after their share, with a warm "thank you", a safe hug, and/or a commentary short sentence that says, "I really got something good from you today" or "I know its hard, please hang in here".
There are no rules, but there is a thing called "respect" and "common courtesy". And in keeping with these we should avoid any cross talk in the room or even in private messages while a person is sharing. PM's are much like whispering in another persons ear while someone is sharing in a face to face meeting. Not only is it rude to do this, it diminishes the possibility of two people hearing the message of experience, strength and hope that is being shared. The person whispering, as well the person being whispered to. There is plenty of opportunity for talking in private, for general chat, for sponsoring, etc. This is a time period of one hour we give to the meeting. in the meeting we come together as a group to act as a group, learn, grow and recover as a group.
Yours In Healing and Recovery,
John
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" And what did we gain? A new life, with purpose, meaning and constant progress, and all the contentment and fulfillment that comes from such growth."
I do agree with you, being interupted during a share with "hi" or "bye" or "good nights" can easily break the flow of your share. But seeing that we are on a limited platform and cannot physically see our fellow roommates, I would suggest holding hugs and nods to when you thank the speaker for their share. In this way the meeting progresses unfettered and the person will still feel the warmth of the participants in the room.
I am an opera fan and would not start clapping in the middle of a perfomance, even though it moved me to tears. It is the same with our meetings. The shares maybe painful and stir may emotions within us, but the timing for acknowledging that is of importance.
As for the venting issue, many especialy newcomers have no where else to release the pent up emotions that reside within themselves. They have no idea how or what the program is about. They have no sponsor to release their emotions to .( For me I personally will vent to my sponsor or another Al-anon friend.) But being a newbie they do not have that luxury.
Meetings should be about sharing ESH and how you personally have implemented the tools of the program in your recovery, but it does not mean that we have to be cold and callus either. I need to hear the "vents" of the newbies just as much as anyone else. They are a very strong reminder for me of where I have been and where I am today and where I need to do more work. Thank you for letting me voice my opinion.
I have been coming here and going to meetings here since 2001.
I wanted to say I like the hugs and relates etc. It lets me know I am being listened too and i am also touching others. Also sometimes I may be in tears or hurting and a hug right them makes me feel better.
We cannot see the shaking heads of agreement or hear the sighs or whatever. If I am talking and no one responds to me, I feel like I am talking to the wind.
I suppose we could let people know before we share that we appreciate the tiny responses...
I myself need them and love to give them. love,debilyn
Thank you soo much for understanding and feeling the same way.... that is what is so special for me about Miracles in Progress... I have felt the warmth of everyone in here with there nods, smiles, and hugs, even though I cant see them or touch them and it has meant the world to me. We, I feel, when we get the courage to finally come in here looking for help are desperate and in need of attention and love and understanding from others... The nods, smiles, and hugs are a confirmation that we are recieveing just that...Thank you :smile
I am not always able to attend the meetings but what you said is so true.
I think people feel the need to say goodbye or hello when they first log on even during a meeting because they might think others think them rude. I, at first use to do that myself but I have learned to just log on and be silent if someone is speaking or to just log out if I have to go during a meeting.
I get so much out of the meeting and think all of you are great:)
