The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Detachment is an effective tool to step back from the chaos and decide what is the best action for ourselves. It disables manipulation from A spouses/A children over time and makes the partners even more aware sometimes of the manipulation that has happened in the past and present. Alanoners start making decisions about themselves, their plans and their actions which is a very healthy step. 'A' spouses/children lose their strength and ability to intimidate or manipulate alanoners. The end result can include some or none of the following: hitting bottom, escalation of violence, treatment, separation, divorce, acceptance within marriage, no change and other variations. Either partner can initiate these results or be the one with no choice of the action taken.
So for debate purposes, lets look at this from a view of marriage or partnership with A's that can be somewhat functional sometimes. (Not violent, out of control or already in legal or medical crisis A's.) When detachment occurs effectively, the alanoner not only gets the positive healthy things from taking responsibility for themselves but in a way, don't alanoners begin to manipulate the A? By walking away when the A wants more communication, alanoners are just claiming the manipulation tool before the A does? This might be an initial exercise to block manipulation for the alanoner to use but it seems like there should be another technique besides using tools of manipulation like not communicating, not responding, walking away, leaving the house, stop engaging, go to a different room.........which all can be the same things we complain the A does but it is ok if alanoners do it to them? We say the A is in denial of their own problems when they start getting sick like alanoners feel because they are now the ones being manipulated.
Seems to me that no matter who uses the tools of manipulation that the end result is never going to be a healthy, good communication, and responsive companionship between al anoner and alcoholic. The shoe has just been put on the other foot or a switch about who has the upper hand or a more obsure form of controling others with manipulation. Is this the only option and is it really a healthy option? Communication skills have to be able to improve without manipulation or it would seem the communication is really tainted and not improving.
I know this program has worked and is world wide so I am not trying to put it down but bring up this debate topic to understand how it really works. Thanks for any help you can give me to understand this correctly.
Thanks, ddub
-- Edited by ddub at 12:42, 2008-01-29
__________________
"Choices are the hinges of destiny." Pythagoras You can't change the past, but you can change the future.
I had to put debate aside when I got into recovery although it took a while before I finally gave it up and became the sponsee and not the immediate sponsor. As I was told..."you don't know anything about real recovery so it would be best to sit, listen, learn and practice from those that do know." My sponsor and my counselor also told me and taught me how to "get out of my head" as I spent way to much time questioning and trying to figure out the whole thing. "Trust and faith" coming from the disease were non-existent and I had to learn to Trust those who came before me and were more happy and balanced and to have faith that if I did what they did my life would also be more balanced and happy. Those last two assets worked for me as they had for the old timers who hung around and willingly gave their ESH away to the newcomers.
Detachment is an artform to me and with proper intention and unconditional love plus all of my other lessons result in balance and happiness for me and an end to the conflict with the alcoholic/addict.
Manipulation can be both positive and negative dependent upon my relationship with my HP and my intention to use it. When my intention and my practice is "Fair, Honest and just" the outcome is balance and happiness. Used without these and other guides the outcome is tenuous and shakey. I might feel guilt and shame and the others involved may feel angry and less than. Of course there are all other sorts of negative things that I can cause using "My will" instead of "Thy will."
I have been truthfully called a manipulator. I am and before program the outcome of this characteristic were most always hurt and pain for the other person and an ongoing effort on my part to justify my behavior so that I would not feel guilt and shame and uneasy and the other person (victim) would not feel bad about me and even accept what happened (on going manipulation only causes a deeper problem and less chance of pulling it off) as acceptable that one time.
Inventory of my intentions, plans, methods and outcomes along with an overview of my HP's will for me keeps me on track and the process fair, honest and just.
Great point ddub. I have thought of this often myself. Plus, there are other things about the program I do not get or agree with or that do not work for me. I am glad that this is a thinking group here and that we have room for doubt and actual concerns and questions. It is the truly the only pathway to real understanding and comprehension.
(MIP may be one of the last democracies left, who knows!!)
I think that the al anon tool of detachment alters the relationship dynamic just enough to allow a kind of "crack" to occur so that the A hits bottom pretty quickly. Now, what the A does when they hit bottom no one can predict. The enabling stops, we al anoners step back, let them drown, etc. Denial lifts. and then there you have it: a picture, perhaps a "real" picture. Is this what/who you want? Is this the kind of person I want to be with? Its true colors time.
I think detachment certainly can and is a form of manipulation. You could call it compartmentalization, too which can be downright psychotic. I see that any single one of the tools could be lifted out and used to extreme in a harmful and/or unhealthy way. This is why there is a whole program, an orchestra or constellation, if you will, of tools, meetings, literature and books, sponsors, etc. The program works best when all of these points are activated and not just a select few.
I have been seeing here on this board a lot of evidence of individuals only using one aspect of the program and I do think it can create a "skewered" effect.
For me, I far far away from my AH. I do not see him at all. I do not contact him at all. I have no idea what he is doing. I do not live with active alcoholism, thank god. I am also not divorced. Someday I may be, I have given all that over to HP.
Communication skills are needed in a marriage. I think this "crack" that the program can make in a marital dynamic can set a couple back on track, if used towards that end. But you need to have two willing parties there to do that and often that is not the case. Its not my case, anyway. At least not now. Then its a matter of how long? But this is what I have dumped off into HPLand, its out of my hards for now. I am doing a-ok one day at a time.
I do need to enter into a situation where I learn to communicate effectively. This program will teach me how to do that by attending meetings and having a sponsor and it is something I am learning. I am learning that I can consider and think about things that I would have rejected outright or "Keeping an Open Mind". What he does/does not do is his business and I have no idea what he is up to. I have to keep the focus on me 24/7 right now, I am learning a lot and its good. If I ever get to put anything into practice is HP's will. J.
Interesting question. I don't see walking away as manipulation but more an end to it. I need to utilize walking away more with my daughter who loves to argue her point and follow me around the house doing it. I see dealing with an A much the same as dealing with a rebellious teenager (now that I have some experience with both). Sometimes the hardest thing for me to do is shut up and walk away. I know I"M RIGHT!!! But no amount of yelling, arguing or attempting to convince will make me right in the other's eyes. Sometimes it's best to just say ok I'm done with you and walk away. Then refuse to respond to the ongoing following around comments. I see this tactic more as a way of controlling myself than manipulating the other. Sometimes I really just want to start pounding until they are unable to speak, especially when they are being beligerent, defiant, disrespectful and pushing all of my buttons. I know with the daughter I am setting the example by refusing to shut up myself when I tell her to. Why? I KNOW I AM RIGHT!!! But that doesn't make the situation at hand any better. I try really hard to say it like it is, not be critical and walk away when I get angry and I'm just talking about as a parent! With another adult it's just as hard but I know now that I AM responsible for my children, I'm NOT responsible for the A. BIG difference!
A partnership is two people working toward a common goal. In my opinion an active A is not capable of a "partnership" because they already have a sole partnership with drugs/alcohol. It took me a long time to get that. I always felt like his addiction was like another woman, he could never understand that logic. He chose it over me, over our marriage, over the kids, over jobs even over himself. Isn't that the definition of true love? Loving something/ someone more than yourself? So in a sense I was right, it is equivilent to "the other woman". I think that was the hardest thing for me to accept that he chose it over me and that no amount of anything I did would ever change that. I felt for a long time as if there was something wrong with me because I wasn't good enough or he didn't love me enough to stop. Now I know it's all about him - Literally and figuratively.
Deatchment in the alanon program doesnt mean to cut off all ties and to not care for the person.
Detachement is to love the person hate the disease, it means not following someone to the bottom, it means not allowing anyone to make you feel a certain way because of thier actions, to detach means to listen and not become emotionally involved in thier feelings. Being able to stay focused on yourself. There is a story they use to describe this. It is a man was drunk and fell on the floor and his wife had just joined the program, and they had talked about detaching, and after she had read up on it with the literature provided and from other members she thought she knew what it meant to detach so the next time she saw her husband drunk he passed out on the floor and normally before the program she would help him to bed and take care of him wearing herself out, left with pain and resentment. That day she saw her husband passed out on the floor and left him there went to her meeting and shared, i have detached, they explained to her yes she did detach however detaching in the alanon program would be detaching with love, and they went on to say that covering him with a blanket and leaving him on the floor would have been detaching with love. Its being able to be there for someone and not allow yourself to get mixed up in the chaos they create. Taking care of yourself and being able to keep your own power.That is what i have understoood detachment in the alanon program to be. I wrote this a few years ago..
What i understand about detachment now is, not letting someone make you feel a certain way because of things they do or say. Not take thier abuse. Know that the things they say is really more about the things they hate about themselves rather than me. Know my own truth and not doubt it when someone says something that is negative about me. Love them, Hate the disease. Dont do for them what they can do for themselves. Live your life make your own decisions whether they drink or not. If there is plans set and drinking messes them up, do them anyway without the A. ect.. or do something nice for yourself. Dont allow yourself to be caught up with them.
I used to think it was a form of manipulation also. Now i see it as a way of taking care of my self and keeping my own sanity and serenity. No one has the right to take it from me no matter what is happening. I choose it.
Hope this helps, my opinion on detachment.
kerry
-- Edited by kerry5 at 14:24, 2008-01-29
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Life can only be understood backwards, But it must be lived forwards
To quote Sigmund Freud, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar".
Yes, those things you describe - leaving the room, stonewalling... they could be a technique of manipulation. But they can also be techniques for preserving your sanity.
It's all about your motivation. If you are looking out for yourself, and are not trying to get your A to act a certain way - it's genuine self-interest. I suppose nobody is ever 100% free of ulterior motives but, sometimes we have to take care of ourselves regardless of what other people think. Regardless of what WE think, or rather what our internal critic thinks.
There are plenty of cases where healthy detachment has led to an alcoholic hitting bottom - with nobody to pick up the slack anymore, they had a moment of clarity. But as you know, this is not always the outcome. Detaching and hoping for a positive outcome (and waiting to re-attach when the golden moment occurs) is manipulative. But I suspect it doesn't go that way too often. Most of us hang on so long that by the time we do detach, it's out of sheer desperation... we're hanging off a cliff by our fingertips, and the only chance we have of hauling ourselves back on top is to let go of the 300-lb duffel bag in the other hand. As the bag drops... screaming out our name in one last gasp of blame, it shatters on the rocks below. We pull ourselves up, and probably feel guilt... but would anybody be better off if we had taken that last fatal plunge?
