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A friend of mine is so great (sober) and even one or two drinks she's ok, but after that she turns into something extremely unpleasant. I've seen this a million times. She literally becomes another person, and whoever this person IS I cannot stand. I've been with her in public when this OTHER personality comes out. Despite the fact that I drink too; I can literally SEE her change and pinpoint the moment it happens. It's very unnerving. It's very close talking, in your face, extremely sarcastic, defensive, jealous, inappropriate jokes, talking gibberish, confrontational, obnoxious to me and others, and then the ultimate descent where she will go home and pass out. One small example is that she will make jokes at my expense.
In the morning she will call or email me and often tell me what a good friend I am and how much I mean to her. She'll sort of check in to see if we're "ok" without addressing much of the night before. I honestly don't know if or how much she remembers of the behavior, but she always seems remorseful the next day so I'd assume she does remember it somewhat.
The next day if I am cold or distant to her she will get annoyed that I don't just TELL her what's on my mind. Frankly I'm done with that. It's ineffective. Just becuause I TELL her that she was rude does not mean it's going to change anything at all. What's worse is I end up feeling bad or guilty or blamed for not being honest with her. She suspects I'm upset, but I don't say anything. I feel why should I have to draw her out? Why is it MY job to call attention to what happened???? If I thought I was nasty or mean to a dear friend of mine and felt remorse I would apologize. Plain and simple.
I don't know what to do. I care very much about this person, but I am not a counselor. I cannot treat or cure her alcohol issues, and frankly I cannot stand by and be abused. Furthermore when she acts hostily toward me I know it's in part the alcohol, but then I wonder if it's uncovering her REAL feelings about me in which case I should probably run the other way.
What can I do????
-- Edited by charlotteyorkgoldenblatt at 15:05, 2008-01-21
Hmmmm, what if you manage to make her designated driver when y'all plan on going out drinking.....that way she is sure to not drink the amount of alcohol that turns her into this crude obnoxious person that seems hell bent to embarrass the hell out of you in public?
That usually works for me when dealing with someone who tends to be extremely unpleasant to be around when drinking. Of course, you have to make sure that this person is capable of being a designated driver. If in doubt, maintain your own sobriety so you are sure you don't get in the vehicle with someone drunk.
Well, if nothing else, making her THINK she will have to drive at the end of the evening, maybe it will at leasts minimize the amount she drinks, reducing her obnoxiousness. Then at the end of the night, you make sure you are in charge of the driving. ;)
Hmmmm, what if you manage to make her designated driver when y'all plan on going out drinking.....that way she is sure to not drink the amount of alcohol that turns her into this crude obnoxious person that seems hell bent to embarrass the hell out of you in public?
That usually works for me when dealing with someone who tends to be extremely unpleasant to be around when drinking. Of course, you have to make sure that this person is capable of being a designated driver. If in doubt, maintain your own sobriety so you are sure you don't get in the vehicle with someone drunk.
Good luck to you. Sincerely, QOD
Respectfully, I disagree. I see that as a way to try and control her, and we know trying to control doesn't work when it comes to an active alcoholic.
Personally, I can't be around people like that, friends or not. Actually all my friends are non-drinkers :)
I can choose to engage in a dance of insanity with the alcoholic, or walk away and not engage.
If nothing changes, nothing changes.
I guess my question is why do you accompany her on occasions where she does drink? Is it a sense of obligation as a friend or what?
Just some thoughts :)
DeVon
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"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson
Yes, I agree. I don't want to control her. I don't think it's my place or responsibility. I don't know that I can help her and I'd like to keep her as a friend, but this aspect of her makes it very difficult. When she's not drinking or when she's had one or two she is really a great person and tremendous fun. She is not someone who NEEDS to drink to be social or come out of her shell.
As dumb as it may sound; when we get together it's often for dinner or drinks so obviously I myself am part of the problem, but the fact is I LIKE to have a couple of drinks. I don't think it's wrong or bad if it's not something that gets out of control. As a "friend" I don't know that I can tell her "we can only hang out when YOU'RE sober and then drink myself. That would be absurd. I could also potentially say "I'll only hang out with you when neither of us drinks", but that would be uncomfortable too. The only way I have found I can "have my cake and eat it too" is to try to heed the warning signs and allow her to drink as much as she wants, but when it seems she's getting out of hand go home. Sometimes I'm not that fortunate and have to be witness to a full scale meltdown.
I have been on both sides of the fence, and I can tell you as a recovering alcoholic, that everyone wanted to tiptoe around the subject, and not be honest with me.
I can't say that it would have made a difference as I would have become defensive and rationalized my behavior.
I do know that I did NOT hit a bottom and seek recovery for myself till I had lost every friend and family member in my life. They all stepped back and allowed me to fall flat on my face with no one to pull me back up.
That was one of the greatest blessings in my life when it came to finally admitting I had a problem, and actually doing something about it.
I will keep you in my prayers! :)
DeVon
__________________
"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson
That was one of the greatest blessings in my life when it came to finally admitting I had a problem, and actually doing something about it.
DeVon
To the original poster:
I agree with Tenderheartsks.
My husband turned into a Jeckyll and Hyde as well. The last three years we were together (we have been separated for 7 months) I refused to go anywhere with him, for I couldn't trust that he would refrain from drinking. At home where he did most of his drinking, I'd go in another room and not associate with him. Like Tenderheartsks, he became defensive and often rationalized when I tried to get him to admit his problem. (He always said that I was a prude because I did not drink; the reality is - I never have acquired a taste for alcohol or fruit juices - YUCK!) But oh, in his mind, I was a prude. Fast forward three years later, + detox, + 30-day in patient rehab, + 4 months of AA meetings, he now admits I'm not a prude and he does have a problem.
I realize it is quite uncomfortable to tell a friend like it is. At times, it really isn't necessary. However, in this type of situation, I think you'd be a true friend if you told her. Be prepared to hear her rationalizations. I would advise not even trying to reason with her - BIG HUGE waste of time. For active alcoholics will not admit their powerlessness over alcohol - no matter what you do or say.
You might lose her friendship for a while, and possibly forever, due to letting her know how you feel about her drinking. And a few more friends might have to tell her like it is before she comes to admitting her probelm.
Think about how you would feel if she does get in an accident, hurts herself or others. Loses her job, etc, etc. How would you feel for keeping silent? You as her friend, must come "completely" out of denial - she has a problem.
Man! I don't think we are to give out advice. But I do think you asked for it. While I'm on a roll here, here's another piece of advice: read many of the posts here and keep coming back. In addition go to a few al-anon meetings and read a few books. You will be truly helping your friend by educating yourself about alcoholism.
My husband now says that by refusing to do anything with him, inculding living with him, was what got him to seek help. Most likely, it will take far more than you telling her that you refuse to be with her when she drinks. But I still contend telling them the truth is best for YOU and her.
As they often say on these boards: you must take care of you; taking her crap when she drinks is not what I consider taking care of you.
Wishing you the best ! And feeling somewhat uneasy about spouting out all this advice. Yikes! Stormie
Thanks Soooo much Stormie, and everyone who replied. I'm glad that your husband got help. That must have really improved things for you two.
One question I have that has been weighing on my mind is does she or does she not she KNOW what she does in this state? It would seem obvious to ME or anyone else who witnesses this bizarre behavior that she MUST have some knowledge of what she says or does, but is it possible (i'm afraid to ask) that she doesn't know? I mean she knows when her cell phone or wallett is missing and may remember arguing or bits and pieces, but do you think it's possible that she has no knowledge of how she's actually acting?
There are a number of possibilities with that question. A blackout drinker will continue to function, but have zero memory of what they did the night before.
I was never a blackout drinker for many years, but blacked out the second time I drank after I threw 4 years of sobriety out the window because I 'thought' I could be a social drinker.
I woke up at home, with no recollection of the night before, nor how I had gotten home.
I ran out to the garage and there was my car. I drove plum into the back wall of the garage and had smashed my oldest daughter's bike between my bumper and the wall.
Some events were 'foggy' during my drinking years, but for the most part, I did remember what I did. I have no doubt I minimized my actions the night before, I certainly never thought I was 'that bad', and it has been an eye opener to witness someone drunk after I've been sober for several years now.
__________________
"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson
Experience tells me that if you suggest your friend be the designated driver for the evening, then she probably will opt out of the event. No booze....no fun is how they see it. It's really your call if you want to socialize with her or not.
If you do, I might suggest getting together over coffee on a Saturday morning, or going to the movies or shopping or an activity that wouldn't involve the alcohol. Just a suggestion.
One of the aged things I learned about alcohol is that enough of it will permit a person to do and say the things they might never do and say when without it. From my experinece that is true.
I also learned in Al-Anon recovery that we don't have alcoholics we take hostages. At first that was confusing for me until it was described to me that when we hold back on telling our honest feelings our body language is speaking tons about how bad we feel and the alcoholic or other person is just tied up and roped to us until we set them free. I admitted to that myself. My silent or "it's not a big thing" treatment had her tied to me whether she was right there or not and I never learned to "set her free" with the truth while we were together. It was only later and then it could have been better for me because I was learning compassionate honesty in this program. Often the ropes that hold the hostage is my resentments. Until I learned that the opposite of resentment is forgiveness I would never cut those ropes.
Of course it also meant that I was tieing myself up to something I was hating. Any wonder why the last word of the second step is sanity?
Solution? Get the courage to be compassionately honest. Get rid of the fear, guilt and shame. That stuff puts the other person and their feelings above ours and is a form of disrespect. You don't have to be mean when saying what you need to say and you do have to mean it.
Keep coming back. This was a great post. (((((hugs)))))
Solution? Get the courage to be compassionately honest. Keep coming back. This was a great post. (((((hugs)))))
Again, Jerry puts the truth so eloquently!
Be compassionately honest - that's great advice. Unfortunately, when I first began to tell my husband the truth, I did not do it with compassion. That took, oh, a year to develop compassioin. Over that year, I developed understanding of the disease. Understanding nurtures compassion. That is my experinece.
When my friend acts up I get so angry it makes me never want to speak to or look at her again and the mere thought of her makes me sick. To add insult to injury she will act like a maniac, say rude and nasty things and then want to hug me and tell me how much she loves me. I am not a violent person, but I honestly want to smack her when she does this.
I have spoken to her about this a little bit a few times, but was probably a little TOO compassionate in that I did not make my point clear that I will not tolerate this from a friend. I suppose as long as I stick by her she won't know the consequenses of her behavior. I do find it odd that I'm the only one who notices (I know I'm not because strangers in public have asked me "what's the deal with your friend"???), but she has other friends and family. I don't know why no one brings it up.
Initially my husband's drinking problems just showed up in social situations. During these bouts he became the "Man with the Brilliant Mind". He would ponticficate everything, talk and talk and talk and have no sense that the person he was talking to couldn't get a word in edgewise or even get away. Perhaps I was a bit more sensitive and critical about it than others, but socially it just was not right. When he wasn't intoxicated he was pleasant, and funny and engaged in give and take conversation.
Now at this time I didn't even think of him as an alcoholic, just someone who shouldn't drink so much. Before going out, I would gently remind him to drink lots of water and slow down on the alcohol intake and told him why. Sometimes he actually took this advice, but he translated it so harshly and into meaning that I did not accept him for who he was, didn't like him, was embarrassed by him,he couldn't talk, blah, blah, blah.... I never undertstood this, for I think most people (uh, nonalcoholics) would be appreciative to be told when they are being a social moron so they can change their behavior.
Since he has become sober, he has shared with me how much he hated these social situations and the anxiety he felt going into them. He never felt wanted or comfortable, something I just couldn't understand, because I saw his presence in a totally different way (when he was sober).
Anyway, just thought I'd share that, and don't be surprised or hurt if she somehow blames it on you. If you can't talk to her, it seems to me too, that the best solution would be to just avoid the situations. Eventually, she will probably ask why and then you could let her know.
Good luck.
Lou
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Every new day begins with new possibilities. It's up to us to fill it with the things that move us toward progress and peace. ~ Ronald Reagan~
Sometimes what you want to do has to fail, so you won't ~Marguerite Bro~
Thanks for writing. Glad your husband finally realized what he was doing. Yeah, a lot of people including me drink in social settings to help us relax and feel more comfortable. The question is HOW comfortable are you trying to be and HOW UNcomfortable are you making others with your behavior? Isn't it better to be a LITTLE uncomfortable than make a complete ass of yourself, but not feel bad about it because you're so out of it?
Yes, I agree that avoiding situations where I KNOW the jeckyl or hyde (whichever is the bad one) is likely to appear would be key! I've never known any one like this before; someone who I like so much in every way EXCEPT this. I wish I could somehow convince my friend that she is a great person WITHOUT the booze. She's great after one drink even, but after that....not so great.
HELLO, WHEN I RAN ACROSS THIS POST, I THOUGHT ABOUT THIS PAST WEEKEND. MY ABF WAS BEING SO DISRESPECTFUL ON THE PHONE IS FRONT OF HIS FAMILY, THEN THE NEXT DAY HE CALLED ME AND ACTED AS IF NOTHING TOOK PLACE. HIS SISTER SAW WAS SAYING SHE HE'S LIKE A DR. JECKYLL AND MR. HYDE BECAUSE SHE NEVER SAW THAT SIDE OF HIM TO THAT EXTEND.
WITH MY AFB, I RARELY ATTEND FAMILY GATHERINGS WITH HIM BECAUSE I NEVER KNOW HOW HIS MOOD IS GOING TO CHANGE. WHEN MY AFB TAKES ONE DRINK...I MEAN ONE DRINK, HE EVEN LOOKS DIFFERENT...IT'S CRAZY!
