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Have not been on here in a while, but I need some thoughts on something because I am nearing the end of my tolerance and feel like I could just scream. I am very depressed, hurt, and feel betrayed. Before my AH came back home he was different, he listened to me, expressed empathy, concern, we talked about everything, our feelings, his past abuse of me, everything. Now we are lucky if we talk bout what happened at his work, the cats, or the weather.
Yesterday he had to be at work at 5 am, after working the day before from 3 to 10 pm. When he got home yesterday I was very affectionate, loving and needed some reciprocation, not sex, just affection. Its hard to explain my AH but when I initiate affection he always seems to try to get away, most of the time. Like he has to go do this or that, or he will tell me to behaive, in a laughing way, or he will pull away from me, or block my hands. Yesterday was no exception, when we went to lie down for a bit. I could feel his detatchment, like there was no feeling in his kiss and he pulled away quickly. He kept watching the tv, and when I would try to kiss him he would say, look whats happening, on the tv. I finally got my tired of trying and said, I just wanted 5 minutes of your undevided attention. He replied that he was trying to watch the movie. I felt this was terribly insensitive. If the situation were reversed and he need my attention I would not have chosen the tv over him. Eventually I left the room and he slept for 3 hours. I spent another day alone. He later said he was not trying to hurt my feelings. End of subject for him. His reaction to my trying to talk to him is to become busy, or leave the room and he does this consistantly, despite all the discussions with our counselor about this. My AH sponser told him not 3 weeks ago that if I needed something, or if I need to talk that he should sit a nd listen, that nothing else was important as my feelings or our marriage. There is a history of emotional abuse from him in the past, as well as physical. Since the talk with his sponser there has been no change in AHs listening or talking skills.
I am getting tired of being invalidated, unheard and unseen. He also told me yesterday that he was tired of feeling like he had to apologise for something all the time. (what happened to step 10) or humility, or honesty? I know if I hurt someones feelings then I cant apologise enough. To me that is an arrogant haughty attitude. I told him that I was tired of having to hear apologies. Does he think he can do anything and not have to apologise? This puts the blame on me, like my feelings are my fault. It becomes my fault that my feelings ae hurt by his insensitivity and refusal to talk or show any emotion. Somehow he is aways able to turn everything around and make it about him, like when he said the apology thing, or he will say, "I just wont say anything from now on", or Its best I just do not say anything" everything becomes about him and his feelings. He does not see me!!
I went on a vent it seems! I would really appreciate any thoughts or advice. I have tried so hard, T has tried, to make him understand that I need him to care and I am tired of trying. I am tired of trying to talk to a wall. I know he can be different, he was before he came home, so now what gives?
((((Cat)))) I have been through what you are going through, just keep on taking care of yourself, one day at a time. Have never been able to figure out why mine did what he did, but I do know that I do have to take care of myself. I hope things get better for you and that this is just a temporary thing. Remember you can't control him, his actions, his reactions. By the way when mine pulled away in those senses, I found out a little later by the cell phone bill that he was spending his time with another a woman.....so just take care of yourself. grateful
Thanks Grateful for your reply. I really do not think there is someone else, more a case of emotional abuse in the form of the silent treatment, withholding, and which is something he is very good at by the way.
I just thought of a question I would like an answer to. It seems that whenever I try to talk to him about something, and he refuses to talk, we have a period where we just walk around each other not speaking, and this has happened everytime he does something that was wrong or hurt me and it feels like his silence is a punishment for daring to get my feelings hurt by something he did. Also. he never has taken the initiative to make things right again, it always has to be me. I feel it is a control tactic and abusive on his part. He knows what he is doing, how could he not know. He has done it so many times. If someone you loved were hurting because of something you did could you just sit there ans say nothing, for days. Its him punishing me for daring to say he hurt me. And the arrogance of feeling like he should not have to apologise for things he does!!
It just all makes me mad and I deserve better, I deserve a partner, emotional intimacy. Why or how can he be all this and then become cold, and distant? It changed when he came back home after a 6 month seperation. Perhaps now that he has what he wants he no longer feels the need to be what I need or what the marriage needs. I could almost guarentee that if I were to leave he would become the same man he was before he moved home again.
Verenda - I know for me it comes down to expectations. I have an image in my mind of the way things are "supposed" to be. And with my A, I had known how he "could" be, so I went a little nutty, when he didn't act in that way. My A changed over the years with his addiction. It shut him down somewhat. His emotions were dulled. We got into that "I'm tired of always having to apologize to you" scenario, too. I thought because my expectations weren't met, or my feelings got injured because of his lack of attention, that it was all his fault. And I let him know how injured I felt (poor me!). There may be lots of things going on in his mind - that's making it hard to deal with anything outside of himself (classic) right now. Who knows?
All we can really do is take care of ourselves - they can't "make us happy" - only we can. Their disease is a VERY selfish one - and we need to take our focus off of them and put our energies into ourselves. We are worth it. He will be the way he is until he doesn't want to be that way any more. We have to decide for ourselves if we can live with that or not. But we're not going to be able to change them. That's for sure.
A marriage should be a partnership, but sadly, many times it is not.
It's been difficult for me to accept that expectations of others are just premeditated resentments, that happiness is an inside job, and that it's up to me to decide what I can and can't live with.
Today I find that being on my own has been one of my biggest blessings. I find that my f2f meetings are where I find the understanding, compassion, and validation of my feelings.
My active alcoholic/addict daughter has apologized a couple of times in the past, not sincere in the least, and only because she was trying to lube someone for more money.
I have detached emotionally and physically from her. She is toxic for me, and I deserve better.
She may never find recovery and never truly be sorry for what she has done to her loved ones, but today I am okay with that.
I can love her, but I don't have to put up with her, and I am so grateful I finally learned that.
__________________
"If a dog will not come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." - Woodrow Wilson
All we can really do is take care of ourselves - they can't "make us happy" - only we can. Their disease is a VERY selfish one - and we need to take our focus off of them and put our energies into ourselves. We are worth it. He will be the way he is until he doesn't want to be that way any more. We have to decide for ourselves if we can live with that or not. But we're not going to be able to change them. That's for sure.
Take good care of yourself.
~R3
Every word written above is the truth. If one who lives with an A understands these words, then he or she will find peace and contentment. I realize it isn't easy to accept that all we can do is take care of ourselves and the A has to do the same. I realize how extremely difficult it is is observe the A continue down his/her destructive path. But try stopping him and he'll bulldoze you over. Sad, but so true.
thank you so much everyone for your replies. It seems we are all in agreement that I have to decide what I will and will not put up with. To me, or rather with me, I can not find peace and contentment when ther is a lack of emotional intimacy, when I cant share with him, anything other than what happened at work or what the cats did today. I cant find peace and contentment when my spouse does not respond to my tears, or my heartfelt concerns or feelings, or my dreams or my interests or anything about me. I told our counselor, his sponser, in AHs presence that what I wanted most was for Ah to show me he cares by listening to me, validating me, giving me his time, in order to listen, to show concern when I speak and talk to me. But it seems he is incapable of doing this unless of course, it will benifit him. He is self-consumed. This is not my fault, my feelings are my feelings, and I do not think I have to minimize my feelings myself by making excuses for him. Yes he may have stuff on his mind, and be self-consumed, but this does not make my feelings any less important. Those are his issues he needs to work on in order to be able to have a relationship or partnership. His faults do not negate my need for validation or empathy, or communication.
No, I know i cant change him, only he and god can do that, however, he does not appear to be trying to change now. He was actively working on himself before he moved home but I do not see it now. He was reading and we talked about what he read, and saw as things he needed to change, he took notes and wrote down things he needed to change and stop doing that was abusive, made lists of past behaviors, and he is very well aware of those abusive behaviors that needed to stop. HNow however, he goes to work, and comes home and watches tv or plays games on the pc. Gone are the long hours of conversation when he was trying to work on getting back in the home. I have not seen him pick up a book since he came home 3 months ago. He was supposed to start working on his 4th step 2 months ago, but he has not started. I do not see the effort from him anymore. I am tired of feeling like I am doing all the work.
He is waiting now for me to initiate fixing things since this last thing, and he will not make the effort to fix it himself. I am tired of being punished for saying how I feel about something he has done. Its control on his part, and its emotionally abusive behavior. I am tired of trying to talk to him and feeling worse than before I tried to talk. There is no point in my trying to talk because nothing is accomplished or solved and I am left miserable as a result, therefore, my solution is to just not try talking to him because I know he will not give me what I need. He will not talk in return. So what is the point in continuing to try to talk to him? None, because I set myself up to be hurt.
So what do I do? I live my life, I finish my degree, I take care of myself. The only way to find peace and contentment is to accept that he will not be there for me, he will not be a partner, and go on with my life. This will require detatchment, which to me does not allow for emotional intimacy. And that is what I cant accept or live without. conversation, openness, sharing, empathy, these I cant accept the absence of. I could accept the absence of other things but not this one.
Sorry for going on and on, I just need to get stuff out. Thanks for listening and replying, I appreciate it so much
Looks like it's the old "going to the hardware store for bread" thing, here. You can't get what you need from him, and it looks like, from what he says, that he is not getting what he needs from you, either - he is feeling badgered, and like he is in the wrong all the time, not condusive to warm feelings.
Since alanon is not about blaming the A, but about finding out what WE bring to our own unhappiness, you might want to try a few new strategies.
The first and most obvious of course, is facing what you've really got, rather than what you think you should have, and seeing if it's enough for you. Is how he is, right now, good enough? Do you get enough of what you want from him (all aspects - financial, physical, emotional, putting up the storm windows....) to live with what you don't get? Sometimes it does really come down to thinking, "OK, this is a deal I can live with, imperfect as it is" or "No, this just won't do".
Are there ways to get what you are missing in other ways? If you have companionship from friends, alanon, family - does that meet your needs so you don't have to get it from him?
Sometimes I think we are blinded by our ideas of 'normal' - that we 'should' be getting this from our husbands, and so any other way of getting needs met is not allowed. To my mind, this is nonsense. Even with a sober, working at his program A, 'normal' is not really the word to describe our homes. Do you have serenity? Do you have joy? Do you have fulfilment? If so, what's the problem? If not, how can you find them in a healthy way?
Yes, it's possible that he only comes up with what you need from him in order to get something from you. It's also possible that he is a person with an emotional and mental illness that makes it impossible for him to give this for long - he just can't keep it up. In the end, that doesn't really matter - what matters is that you find a way to get what you need from life. If you can't get it while with him, you have the right to search elsewhere. What you don't have the right to do, I think, is berate him for not being what he is not.
Verenda - I have exactly the same situation at our home about no communication and he just doesn't get it. and no interest in AA or treatment.
I am struggling to accept there is no perfect answers or unrealistic/fantasy answers (like a picket fence or knight in shining armor) so I am trying to learn how to meet my own needs and somehow find joy & serenity again.
lin's reply is what I see as a viable option but not any easier than any other answer. It is what I am trying to see if it will eventually bring me the peace I need and allow me to maintain some semblance of a family and a spouse whom I can love......... learning to love when it is hard to do is not easy.
this helps me too, part of my wedding vows:
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
I so hear you and understand but a bit angry myself and have come to understand that my despair is yet another way to have self pity and bring misery on myself, yet again. There is always hope, though hard to see it shining through on on cloudy day. Just my 2 cents which may be clear as mud while I am struggling. Thank you for your post as it may be helping me to move forward a baby step myself.
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"Choices are the hinges of destiny." Pythagoras You can't change the past, but you can change the future.
I have not seen him pick up a book since he came home 3 months ago. He was supposed to start working on his 4th step 2 months ago, but he has not started. I do not see the effort from him anymore.
I loved Lin's response. As folks who are dealing with alcoholics, we're used to handling things, taking care of problems, dare I say "CONTROLLING" things?? The first thing we learn in al-anon is that we don't have control over anything or anybody except ourselves.
He may never pick up another piece of AA literature, or do his fourth step, or attend another meeting. Could you live with that? Once the A is left to his own devices and we no longer clean up his messes, then they're "forced" to make a decision. Get better or die. But if we're there, manipulating things, making demands, dumping guilt....we may very well be standing in the way of his progress. That's why we're told that we should take care of ourselves - our side of the street. Al-Anon has tools to help us do that. Once we take the focus off of what he ISN'T doing for himself or for us, then we can begin looking at what we can do ourselves.
Rehab isn't a magic act. (I've had to learn that over and over and over and over.) Rehab dries them out and puts in their hands the tools to begin living a new life - if they choose. My A tossed those tools out the window countless times. But me reminding him of the tools and wondering about the tools and questioning him when he's going to use the tools, sure didn't make those tools look any more appealing to him. In fact, my A (like many of them) has enough rebel in him to reject any sound advice, just because his way is better.
I recommend finding a good face to face meeting where you feel comfortable. The experience, strength, and hope in those rooms will change your life.
I am separated from my AH and have plans to move back into the vicinity (not "in" with him) in around 6 months to see how it goes. Could go either way. Part of me is filled with dread. Part of me has enough recovery to know I have changed and that therefore the situation will be different somehow (not sure how).
I now know that if there are red flags, its over. I think Linns post is a great list of questions (Linn you are really good at generating questions we need to ask ourselves and I, for one, am grateful for your ability to do this).
Denial is such a huge part of OUR disease. Maybe making some lists would help: what is good/going well in the marriage. Make some lists and compare them over several weeks.
Counselors/therapists/sponsors do not live in your relationship. To say that your A is not doing what the sponsors told him to do could be viewed as punitive, scolding and treating him like a child. Its his choice to do what they tell him or not as it is yours. He is a full grown man and he has made his decisions to behave as has. SEE the reality of his ACTIONS, do not bother with his words, as we all know we gotta watch what they do not what they say.
If he cannot give you attention when you demand it, you need to learn to soothe yourself and take care of yourself. I am learning to do this myself by strengthening my relationship with the number one "marriage" in my life- the one with my HP. I hope to have learned it enough so that when/if my AH and I get back together the pressure will be off both of us. The only one who can love me like I need to be loved is HP. That is the source of the totally embracing, affectionate unconditional love I crave.
We can only be who we are. They can only be who they are. Accept it or not, the choice is yours. Hugs, J.
You have some good replys here. I just have one thing to add. In my experience, when I was emotionally needy and demanding it put huge pressure on my AH. I had to accept that in his early recovery he was incapable of giving me any intimacy. He could barely take care of himself emotionally. My AH was also emotionally abusive. He used withholding of affection and silence like a knife to stab me with at every turn. But I learned to see these things as his way of telling me he couldn't give me what I was asking for. When I chose to let my feelings get hurt because I took this personally, I was punishing him for not getting what I want. I would follow him around "trying to talk" and fuss and cry and generally make him feel miserable that he wasn't able to be a "good husband".
It's like learning to read some kind of code (I want to see this movie = I can't give you affection right now) and its really hard, but it has worked for us until, now he is able to tell me when he needs his space. And now he usually just needs a few minutes. He used to avoid me for hours or days.
Anyway that's my experience. Hope it helps.
__________________
~Jen~
"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown
Yesterday he had to be at work at 5 am, after working the day before from 3 to 10 pm. When he got home yesterday I was very affectionate, loving and needed some reciprocation, not sex, just affection.
Your timing could be a bit off.
Eventually I left the room and he slept for 3 hours. Adequate rest is a requirement for recovery and not an option. H.A.L.T. (hungry, angry, lonely, tired) Its not your responsibility to make sure he gets it. It is his and he's doing what he has to do except for getting to meetings.
Throw a blanket on him and go to a meeting yourself Everyone will be glad to see you.
My Dad used to train hunting dog's, they were quite free spirited, They'd bring home the game but quite often they would just go their own way. We couldn't catch them of course. They were like jackrabbits on springs bounding over the fields. We'd whistle, hollar chase, beg and bait them to come to us because we knew we couldn't go home without them. "You don't go to the dog son, you let the dog come to you", he'd say. He'd turn his back and make us follow and not turn back to even see if they were following. We'd get to the car and he'd open the trunk and they would be ready to jump right in.
You take care of you Veranda, He'll catch up with you on when he's ready. Probably his day off from the looks of that schedule.
I have been in your shoes. Sucks! My AHsober is an avoidant. Or as a therapist expressed it "any addiction will do". Not just to avoid us but to avoid feelings, life, maturity, responsibility, etc. So it is about us but it isn't. My A used to scream "I don't have what you want" and then he would go give it to someone else. Afraid of intimacy? Drive yourself crazy trying to figure it out. Yes and I think that it is about control too. The wall of silence, the damn TV, sleep - all about control. Advice? Hmmm, encirlce your heart with the love of your HP. I will too.
Here's my take on it, I know I'm a little late but ...
I have always been invigorated by the thrill of the chase. Once you have captured your game it's not so much fun anymore. You said when he was out for the 6 months he worked really hard. Why? Maybe because it was a challenge then. Now he knows he has you. I would say that spending lots of time with others and out of the house and getting those socialization needs filled in other places would really benefit you. I bet after a few weeks of that he begins to wonder what's going on and the chase is on again and his interest will return. My husband was also my best friend and it has taken me a long long time to learn to live without him. I think the point is you have to be able to live without him and choose to live with him. So I'd continue going on as if he weren't there doing MY stuff and just allow time for him when it suits you.
