The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I am a grateful member of the Alanon Family Group. Since, I discovered MIP, I have had a reliable and safe place to air my concerns and a place to learn from others. I recently made a choice and asked my significant other to leave. After much, much turmoil that involved the usual A behaviors (i.e. lying, stealing, denying and more) and the involvement of the local police, the local county eviction process, the local hospital, my friends, family, minister and more, oh dear more, he left in early June. Fortunately, I had only "invested" 18 months and I decided that I was much better than walking around the family illness of alcoholism in my middle age. When I hear/read some of the stories from our Alanon family, I wonder if my decision to "throw in the towel" and move forward in my life is acceptable with this program. I was so tired of walking around on egg shells and being lied to on a daily basis. When my former A and I got together, I really "meant" it and gave my best to the union. However, as time evolved, the "red flags" of deceipt started waving. With my Alanon program work, I must say that I feel so much better personally and spiritually, however sometimes when I read the stories of other Alanon member in this group, I feel like I have to justify why I took the action of permanent separation. Intellectually and rationally, I do not feel any remorse about my decisions, however I sometimes feel a little guilty that I am logistically free and some folks are not. Sometimes, I ask myself "Are they just better people than me?" But I know the feelings of being "immersed" in the horid life with an unpredictable alcoholic. My own insecurties surface and it makes me realize how much work I need to continue on my own self esteem, judgement beliefs and actions. I guess the bottom line is that I am floundering with powerful feelings and questions. I feel that I am in good company with all of you and people in general. I have said to others a kagillion times "To feel the joy, feeling the sad is also needed. The entire scale of human emotions include all feelings, good to bad." So, my question for you...Should we suffer from all the trials and tribulations of living with an alcoholic or by taking the action NOT to live with it any longer is simply in our own "breed" of denial? Maybe, I am just fooling myself....Namaste and Love to All
When I read your post, limits came to my mind. Each person has their own limits as to what they can and cannot handle. There is no right or wrong answer for you getting a divorce. Comparing yourself with someone else is telling me that you still don't know who you are. - this is just my opinion and what i have learned about myself. Are you going to meetings? More will be revealed to you as you work the program. I attended a conference on Alcoholism and the affects of living with an alcoholic. Living with someone who is an addict, cancer patient, or anyone who is sick can make others sick. My grandmother has dementia and I became very sick from being around her. I called for professional help because I felt I was slipping away. The Association told me that caregivers need more help than the patients do. Hope this helps you see more clearly. You know what is best for you.
Thanks, Lisa! I have been doing Alanon work for about 18 years. I have a F2F meetng once a week and try to participate in an online meeting several times a week. I know what you are saying about living around any chronic illness. My dear friend died two years ago from colon cancer and I took care of him for the last couple of years. Currently, a dear friend is in the final stages of pancreatic cancer. We (friends) are taking turns staying with her so her grown children can have some respite. I am the elder child in my own family and take care of all of my mother's affairs since she has dementia/Alzheimers and is in an assited living facility. I have MS and counsel newly diagnosed people with MS. I know I have a "plate full" but that is life today. I was single for 17 years, working to provide my family's single income, sending children to college and finding some room for myself. I told myself that I would "never settle again." I looked for and sought my partner and former A. We fell in love and many, many things were wonderful, especially in the first 7 months of our relationship. When the red flags started to wave everyday in my face, I did some "talking" to myself. I am 52 and I really didn't want to "spin my wheels" and "use my preciuos time" living with a lying alcoholic. I am an adult and he is adult. We are both responsible for only our own behaviors. Yes, self work is ongoing, but I have received some comments from this group, only a couple, that wreaked of judgement. Those comments certainly are not going to change how I feel, however I have to wonder... I was taught that if you don't have something nice to say, to say nothing...and I still do. It still hurts a bit when the finger of blame is pointed at me. Thanks for your insight and opinion. Diana
Diana, your action is definitely acceptable. AlAnon does not expect you to martyr yourself for the sake of an alcoholic. Each of us must do what is right for us, and AlAnon supports that mindset. Those who have choson to stay have done so for their own reasons and at their own risk. Those of us who divorced ourselves from it have done the same thing.
I divorced my dear husband...although we are still together...because I could no longer share in the responsibility and possible consequences of his actions. Instantly, life became easier. I do not regret my decision. Nowhere does God's law, if you are a believer, say that the spouse of an addict must give up his/her entire life to misery and abuse because of the phrase, "For better or worse." I honestly believe that whomever falls back on that excuse is doing so from weakness and indecision.
And so, as you go along your journey, remember that your peace, serenity, and happiness are what are important. His life is his to live, and yours is yours.
I send you best wishes and caring, positive thoughts,
Diva
-- Edited by Diva at 10:01, 2007-09-29
__________________
"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
As Diva said, there are so many different circumstances as to why people stay or go. I can understand the fear of being a mother, maybe just having purchased a first home, maybe there are one or two young children, perhaps the person hasn't worked in a while and is a stay at home Mom. Bills are mounting, mortgage needs to be paid etc. Divorce can be a scary thing when you see no way out. In the inerrum the program can help someone like that hold on to their sanity. I would guess many would get the heck out if it were easier.
For some it is almost impossible. Supporting young children, paying day care and getting a full time job with hopes that one has the skills to make enuff money to do all of that can be daunting. There's just lots of different situations.
As far as anyone judging you......I'm not sure how anyone that lives with an A could judge anyone for getting away from it.
More power to ya!
Christy
__________________
If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
I believe it is very OK to question yourself as you are doing . . . it means you are "openminded" in spite of a very firm decision you made.
Lots of us don't leave, and the reasons are legion :D . But in the end, it's YOUR decision, just like it was mine, hers and his.
One thing I learned that I honestly never knew or believed before I left my exA: some alcoholics are not "nice" people, and you can take away the booze or whatever and you still have a lying, hell raising abusive person with A LOT of mental and emotional problems I just don't want to subject myself to anymore.
Being openminded gives us patience and compassion for those that choose to stay in spite of the chaos or abuse and pain we see evident in their lives. They are our sisters and brothers too, and perhaps "need" our unconditional support more than anyone. Just my opinion.
Sometimes I struggle with those situations, I want to grab the person and gently or not so gently help them see the light :D. Sometimes I feel angry with them, and exhausted for them. There must be a kind of survivor's guilt for some of us, when we escape with our lives, and watch someone else go down (so we think) with the ship.
But the wonderful Alanon people here and elsewhere remind me "His Eye is on the sparrow", and we each have a open line to God, who loved each of us, good or bad, and has a plan for us.
Your freedom isn't at anyone's expense nor does it defy Alanon "rules" :D . We are glad for you and your new life unencumbered by the disease. It sounds like you are going to make it great for yourself too.
Thanks, Diva! I know that in my heart, I did the best thing for me. My life is returning to peace and serenity, since he is left, as it was before he came. The "immersion" period of verbal and emotional abuse is not in my sanctuary any longer. Thanks, again and thanks to Alanon. Diana
Thanks, so much, Christy! After I divorced my daughter's Dad 17 years ago, I had a "catch line" that I would use to simply get my point of across to people who tried to encourage me onto a path of dating. "I can buy my own dinner!" And honestly, I would have eaten dirt before I purposely found another man who wanted to dominate me. Then, when my children were grown & launched into the world, I was my own contractor in the remodel/update of my home, I re-landscaped my whole yard and learned to cook for one...but I wanted a companion. I must have an invisible tatoo on my forehead that says "I'll fix everything. The world's best codependent!" And here comes alcoholic #2. I must say that his methods were different than what I had seen, but very typical of most alcoholics. Thanks, again and thanks to Alanon. Diana
Thanks, Kim! A lot of information unfolded about my former A. He had an open warrant for a DUI in his home state and was STILL MARRIED! My own "sleuthing" brought much information to light. He wanted me to marry him and I have no idea what he was thinking. I began to see and believe that he was not a "nice" person and probably has a mental disorder of some kind...borderline personality disorder or narcissistic personality disorder. His use of alcohol was, in my not so humble opinion, a form of self medication. And had been for years and years.... I have stopped "beating myself up" for the situation, because it really has nothing to do with me. I loved your response to my letter. You are my kind of woman! Thanks, friend, Diana
the only thing i could see as not great in your story is that you would even consider guilting yourself or taking on anyones judgement. it sounds to me that you are living a good life, that you are thoughtfull and caring. i am very familiar with the guilt landscape. guilt can fill any space and nag away any happines if we let it, i've been very gratefull when members have shown me that my guilt was too much. best of luck with your new life and i hope it brings you joy.
As "unAlanon" as it is, to admit to myself my ex has a personality disorder like you mentioned was the missing puzzle piece that made sense out of so much I was experiencing with him. Without that understanding of him, I attributed all of his behavior to his addictions. But that isn't always the case.
Many A's are "normal people" beneath their disease. Some aren't, and they are mentioned in the Big Book of AA as those "constitutionally incapable" of being honest with themselves and working the program. It goes on to say "it is not their fault, they seem to have been born that way". Well, it that's the case, I CERTAINLY have nothing to do with it, and must bail to save myself.
Thanks, Florrie! I am grateful, however I think looking to yourself in times of bad or good, for that matter, are pretty normal. I look at this recovery process as just that; a "process"...sort of like mourning. We aren't born knowing many things and this is definitely one of them! As I have told family and friends, I need support not scolding about what I have done wrong. Anyway, folks that offer "unsolicited advice" need to hone up on their listening skills. It reminds me of the book "Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus" by Dr. John Gray. As far as your kind response, I am grateful. A fellow Alanon member's words hold great respect from me. Thanks, again, Diana
For me, recovery means taking back your life. Living life the way you choose and so richly deserve. It's taking no prisoners. It's doing what is best for you. Recovery is living strong. No one here can no should judge you or any of us. All of our stories are different. I can understand those little twangs of guilt creeping in once in a while. I had them when I told hubby to leave because I could no longer live with the chaos. Guess what? They're gone. I did what I had to do to take care of me. Hubby has recently relapsed and it's been on and off with him. I'm not sure what I'm going to do if he doesn't pull out of this. But I do know whatever decision I make, I can count on the support on my loving Alanon family here. Love and blessings to you.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
__________________
It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
I am one who stayed, and guess what? I find myself often thinking "Was it wrong to stay? All these other people seem so much stronger than me..."
I think a certain amount of second guessing comes with the territory - if I had unshakable belief in my own rightness, I would not have been so vulnerable to the mind games the A played. Reality is, nobody knows what it's really like inside another person's marriage, and that goes double if there is an A involved. We all do what we think is best, and no one here will judge.
Karilynn and Pipers Kitty, Thank you so much! Your words are truly words of inspiration and support. My recovery is moving ahead (post-alcoholic domestic partner) in an amazing way. The chaos has lifted! The memories of a peaceful life are no longer memories; peace is my everyday reality. The subtle journey into the immersion of life with an alcoholic chipped away at my energies; emotional, spiritual and intellectual. I did not even realize how my emotional strength was being drained with all the "putting out the fires" of the chaos of alcoholism mixed with some really good times of love and companionship. The decision that I made took much careful thought, personal inventory evaulation and intestinal fortitude. And you know what? It was priceless for my serentiy and peace of mind and spirit. Alanon has been a beacon of hope for me. Thanks, again, Diana
Jewely, Thanks you so much! You, my dear, are in my thoughts and prayers. We all must do what is best for us and no one really knows how another person feels. Feelings vary from person to person and are always valid. Alanon is hope and strength and many paths of choices. Thanks, again, Diana
Thanks so much for your thoughts! I admire your ability of rational pondering. You are so right! No one, absolutely no one knows the inner dynamics of another person's marriage and has no right to pass any judgement. We all must do what is best for our own well being. There is no absolute answer or prescribed conclusion to these thoughts. One thing that should be and must always be observed is respect for each other's decisions. Thanks, again, Diana
lil Hi hi, i hope its great where u r and hopefully all is well here.
the ideas your note communicates cover a lot of ideas to add events together with divorce as the most effective option 4 u to make.
the effects of your consideration will be far reaching, whatever you decide. either way, change and the tools some find helpful within the self to equal divorce, or to a reinven- tion to self to equate my idea of to change within self or change on paper i.e. to divorce are found to be the same happening, or idea of to reinven- self using the principles. The tools of change are used in shifting one's attitude, and how change is manifest is up to the self then.
What ever you decide is what you will is all I am saying re your idea / thought and blessings to you in the face of the change you seek. Blessed be oceans of love 2 u in these traials dear getoverit
