Ugh, the lesser of two evils? Those are fun decisions.

What does your gut say?

I just took my kids away from their dad. That had it's own consequences . . . my daughter very needy and reckless to get male attention, and my son raised without a father image, good or bad.

My mom stayed with my alcoholic/addict father and I spent a long time angry with her for keeping him around, not protecting my sister and I from his insanity. Which is why I made my choice. But these are two extremes.

I know we can't protect our kids from REALITY. The reality is (currently) his dad is sick and unpredictable. Also, he is only five years old.

Can a five year old understand that his daddy's choices keep them apart, not yours? I don't know. They tend to blame themselves for everything at that age. Five year olds also would eat ice cream or mac n cheese for every meal, play video games all day and float their GI Joe's in the toilet, all kinds of stuff we don't think is good for them. When we don't think their own FATHER is good for them, oh boy. I never felt guilty for serving my son green beans and making him eat three bites before he could have more mac n cheese, but I sure would feel just like you do about his Dad!

I'm just thinkin' along with you dear. Right or wrong, it's your call. It's already messed up, so a happily every after isn't possible.

You know your son best.

There are lots of variables in there. Will your son always be safe with him?
Will it change who he is if he thinks his Dad doesn't want to see him?
Could he understand that Daddy is sick in his head and doesn't make good choices?
Would he rather see his Dad with some dissapointments or will he think"Daddy doesn't love me" , that's why he doesn't see me?

Kids usually whittle it down to the basics. Either Dad wants to see him or not. The real question is how will he internalize it and what will be the affect of what he thinks of himself?

Christy

-- Edited by Christy at 15:33, 2007-09-26

 It's a really difficult situation for sure. I tried with everything I had when my kids were small, 2 & 4 give or take a few months to have their father's legal rights modified. No visitation or supervised visitation because of drug use and violent behavior. No proof of any abuse or neglect toward the kids made me lose everytime but I kept trying. I found that when I stopped fighting him, he stopped caring and went away. He would reappear every so often and want a visit but broken promises and dissapearing acts had their long term effects.
 
 Because I couldn't get the job done legally I made sure that both of my kids knew as soon as they were old enough to understand that if he showed up and tried to force himself on them and they did not want it, I would be the protector. At all costs and I meant it. I believe there was abuse and am only now getting the information in dribbles from the girls who are 23 & 21. At the age of 14 my oldest drew a line in the sand so to speak and cut all communication. I held true to my word and I think he knew that I fully intended to stand by it and would do anything even if it meant going to prison to keep him from her.  She still refuses to speak to him at all. She does not share her child with him at all. The youngest talks to him but has no delusions about what or who he is or was. She's just a bird of a different feather. She laid her resentments out as they came up and is better off for it.

  I guess the point kind of is, kids are different in how they react. I learned really early on with my kids that I had to parent differently in order to achieve the same results, or kind of. I always believed they would have been better off if he would have died and they would have had something to mourn. I now believe that to be true for my oldest but not my youngest. He had a heart attack just recently and it was obvious on one side that forgiveness or acceptance had occured and on the other, a flat line, no emotion and not even a goodbye to be shared. I offered to go with the oldest to see him when it appeared he wasn't going to make it, even if it was just to tell him to F off but she felt no need to do anything.

  At the age of 5, they were both still trying to keep him up on the daddy pedestal. By 8 or 9, they accepted that he offered nothing to their lives and they received their love, support, nurturing and all the fatherly stuff from my current husband who gave them and continues to give them what a dad should. I never bad mouthed him, I figured he would do his own damage and I believed that we could heal them with the love in our home. I was half wrong and half right. He made his bed but I could not pick up the pieces for my oldest. She harbors hatred and resentments that I can't seem to break through.
 
  I might also point out that my youngest is also the recovering meth addict that brought me to this site in the first place. They both suffered and there is really no way to shield them from all the hurt. All you can do is love them and provide them a safe environment.

 I believe still and I think I always will though that broken promises to kids will kill their spirit. They have to believe. They have to trust.

 Sorry to be so long winded. Brought back a bunch of stuff there.

Toni
 

A while back somebody posted how they had explained to their young children that "daddy" was sick in a way that made his brain "argue with him" sometimes.  This worked for the kids, who would then sometimes come to her with the news (which she probably already knew) that "daddy's brain is arguing with him again".  *** -- I just loved that.

I guess I feel that sharing thought processes and dilemnas with kids - even if they can't understand it all, and without necessarily going into all the details - is valuable.  It gives them a possible explanation for something that is otherwise incomprehensible; it involves them in the process; it helps them learn that part of being a grownup IS struggling with these issues with no clear-cut answer.

Back to the RO -  surely there was some explanation to the little one that "the court decided daddy is not allowed to see any of us until at least March, because when he does we are not safe" - ? - maybe with reminders of specific incidents?  5 is not too young to be reminded of that (calmly), or even to hear, "mommy's having a really hard time with this because I remember what happened when xxxxxxxxxxx - remember how upset you were? - and I don't really have a way of knowing if it would happen again."

The 5 year olds I have known certainly do understand "If x happens, I will do y", and - even if they resent it happening when it does - they like the fact that mom SAID she would do y in case x, and by golly, that's just what she did.  That's something they can rely on.

Echoing something someone else said - when my parents divorced, my mom would constantly and wildly say nasty, accusatory, catty things about my dad, and would be in hysterics for days if he called us. (At least - this is what I remember.  She says it didn't happen that way.)  My dad, on the other hand, though he had treated HER very badly - something I never knew about until much later, of course, more secrets and lies -, never said one word against her to us.  Not surprisingly, it was my mom I was furious with - even though some of the things she said were true.  He was, after all, my dad, and therefore half of me; if she disrespected him, she disrespected me.  (This does not mean I think she should have accepted unacceptable behaviour, but I never heard any of this in a Thoughtful, Honest, Intelligent, Kind way, just wild hysterics.)

To me, "some good dad with disappointments" is better, because at least there's some good dad, and while I might not understand the disappointments as a child, when I look bad on the same incidents later as an adult, I would be able to see them differently and make my own decision.  I think for me, not expecting to see him is NOT a "no disappointment" situation, it's more of a constant dull ache.

And I don't think there's one right decision here either, so it's not like you're doomed forever if you don't pick the magical "right" decision right now - because there isn't one. Hence including the kid in the conversation.  Kids understand "i'm the mommy, and it's my job to keep you safe", but they also learn respect if their own input is heard and validated.

Rambling again - take what you like, & leave the rest.