The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I am reeling again from the counseling session that my AsoberH and I had last week. He just sits there with this calm expression on his face, knowing he has been lying to me (and to the law, for that matter), saying to the therapist how he is just this adolescent alcoholic (AA speak) and that causes him to think the way he thinks. He tells her one thing, but in reality, he is doing the opposite of what he says. I did question him in front of her about the fact that he has driven (with revoked license) ALL ALONG, not just the couple of times I saw him driving, and wasn't that the truth. He just paused, thought for a moment, and shook his head yes. Didn't look remorseful, just calm and matter-of-fact. (I know there will be some of you reading this that think I should be grateful that he was being honest with that answer...sigh...)
The counselor asked him how he feels when he is driving, knowing that it's breaking the law, and he said, "I don't want to be told that I can't drive, so I am going to drive." He will sit there and calmly say that he is working the AA program, that he's doing waaaay better than he used to be when drinking, but I can't get my mind around that one. A lie is a lie. Period. "Rigorous honesty" is just that, RIGOROUS. And if he's telling me that he isn't driving, that he will wait til January when he becomes eligible to get his license back, but in reality he is, and is risking our financial security while doing so, what else is he lying about?
I do need to say that I DON'T sit around and WONDER about what lies he's telling and not telling. I SEE him, and I am told things that don't make sense, just in everyday conversation with him. I do question the things that don't jive, just as I would with a friend that I was talking to. I have given him the BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT since he got out of jail, only to find that he has again told me a lie. Funny, he asked the counselor and me why we can't just discuss what we can do from NOW on, instead of what he has done in the PAST, and I said, "because what you are doing now is a lie, so the past is still happening. Every time that you lie to me, it then becomes the past, so we are to forget about everything that you lie about???"
I changed careers in May so that I could be financially OK in the event that I had to depend only on MY income. I'm not at that point yet, but am headed towards it. Maybe soon... then the fear of "what if" will be insignificant.
BTW, our computer "crashed" the other day, and he was the last to be on it. It worked fine for my daughter and me earlier in the day, and then he got on it, "to check the weather". After that, it wouldn't load pages, I couldn't check email, etc. So I had to spend over $150.00 to have it cleaned...and it was loaded with numerous viruses. This has happened many, many times in the past, and when I question him on it, he denies going to any questionable sites. I've told him when he does go where he shouldn't go, it will cost us each time to get the computer back up and running. So when I went to get the computer yesterday from the shop, he saw the check register and said, "it cost THAT MUCH to get the comuter fixed???" I said, "Yep". (Funny, I got a little satisfaction knowing he paid for what he did.)
I need the computer to do my real estate business, so I can't let it go unfixed. Otherwise, I'd just go to the local library and let him be without a computer.
I know just what you mean about the honesty thing. The games they play before they get serious about recovery are unbelievable. Today I am wondering if there has ever been a single day in the 12 years we've been married that he has not lied to me about something. I seriously doubt it. My A is holding fast to that path of least resistance and I am running fast out of patience to deal with him and his lies.
Hang in there.
__________________
~Jen~
"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown
The inability to perceive consequences was what always blew me away....sounds so similar when you describe his attitude towards driving without a license. Truly amazing to me! The short time my A and I were in counseling (while he was in detox so who knows if he evn remembers it) the word his therapist kept using to keep him in check was AROGANCE. It wsa such a relief for me to hear her name it as that....even if he never saw it. For me I needed to have a reality check after hearing and wanting to believe his bull for so long....that is what the couples counseling did for a short while and it is what MIP does here for me. Thanks for sharing.
By the way....great job getting yourself on the way to financial freedom. It feels so good to know that you can put the food on the table...even if it is simple.
hi, I could feel the pain and sickenss in this post. The disease attacks us in so many ways. I would venture to say, almost everyone with the disease of alcoholism is a liar. Not becuz they choose to be, but it is the nature of the disease. They are not doing it against us, it is NOT personal. When I heard the A lie, at first it hurt me for him. After awhile in Al Anon I learned to ignore it and really it was nothing. Just like watching duck jump into the chickens water pan for the hundreth time.
I learned it was all in how I looked at it. When I really believed Aism was a disease I no longer felt that deep down hurt and anymosity. I felt more pain and sorrow becuz it is a disease and my loved one is very sick.
It might help you to look into the symptoms of alcoholism. There is no benefit of the doubt. It is not up to us to figure them out or believe or disbelieve. Sadly we must learn to detach from the disease, the disease being the symptoms!
We can find so much peace when we stop looking at the other persons actions as something that is our own.
In truth they are not ours. They have to bear the burden of the disease. If we can learn the skills of alanon, we can love our loved one and know they did not choose it. And we will really get it into our heads and hearts, we did not cause it, we cannot control it, we cannot cure it. Being upset, mad, hurt, disappointed, would we feel that way if our diabetic had an attack of low blood sugar and was totally obnoxious?
When we finally get to where we learn the disease is attacking OUR loved one, we Hate the disease not our children, wives, husbands, friends, family etc.
Glad you shared, it was very honest and real. love,debilyn
You know it's one thing to lie to your councelor when it's just one on one. But to do that in joint counceling, just sucks. Not only is he hurting himself, but you as well. It makes me wonder why is sabotaging your relationship? When we were first dating, my A use to "test me" by saying or doing things that could have ended the relationship. It seemed like once he would get really close, he would do something that would put us in danger of not making it. I don't mean phsyical danger (we were living in separate states at the time), but emotional danger. The only thing I could come up with was because of his past (before he sought counceling much later) he didn't believe that anyone could and would stick with him no matter what. In one way it was easier on me because I didn't have to see him everyday. That out of sight out of mind kind of thing. I'd be mad for a few days, and then just let it go. He'd eventually apologize for saying the things he did. But when I questioned him on it, he denied that's what he was doing. The denial thing drove me nuts. Some of the old Aisms will always be there. I guess we who live with it, just have to decided what we want to do about it. Sometimes that's harder than living with an active A.
I'm glad you are taking steps to be financially set if you ever need to be. I still maintain a separate account and A knows this. He also has a separate account, in case I decide to leave. Somehow it's just easier that way. Not that were planning on going our separate ways, but it's a good thing to do. I wish you much luck on your real estate business. I think you are going to be awesome at it! But I will miss our cyber-catering business.
Much love and blessings to you and your family. Kiss the kitties.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
__________________
It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
So nice to see you growing in leaps and bounds hon. It can be painful but it's worth it.
At the risk of being stoned by peeps , I always say AA is just the place where they learn how not to drink one minute at a time, one day at a time. I HAVE YET TO SEE ANYONE MATURE IN AA. One of my family members is 7 years in AA and OMG the lies he tells. Then when I suggest AA to someone else who knows this person is in AA, they say "what do I want to be like him?" <sigh>
Alanon is the answer for all of em, IMHO. We have some double winners in my F2F meetings and I love them. They, initially, were afraid to admit they began in another program because so many alanoners at one point hate alcoholics, but for me the perspective they bring is amazing and I am so darn proud of them for wanting to mature, wanting to finally "grow up." I always welcome them with a hug and tell them how proud of them I am.
love ya, Maria
-- Edited by Maria123 at 09:24, 2007-08-26
__________________
If I am not for me, who will be? If I am only for myself, then who am I? If not now, when?
Kathi, This situation would make me sooo...angry. I know many times I have tried to convince my A of something which I see as the truth and he doesn't acknowledge it. I identify with being an addict myself and I feel that when I was asked to look at the truth of a situation, I could only acknowledge the part which put me in a good light. If someone said I did x, y, z, I would just defend myself and present anypart of my behavior that presented me in a good light. The truth was just to horrible to look at and acknowledge to others. It's not that I meant to lie, I just was in a denial. Hope that helps. Congrats on taking action with a 2nd career. Goldie
I think your post summarizes one of the great challenges of OUR program.... To me, and in my experience, the reason you are feeling so angry and frustrated with his lies and attitude is that you are still trying to work HIS program, as opposed to your own.
Allowing him to be him, and suffering the consequences of his decisions, is a huge part of us "giving up control". If he's lying, misrepresenting the truth, falling off the wagon, driving under suspension, or whatever - HE will bear the consequences of those actions, in due time, so there is no need for YOU to take that on.
As always, easier said than done, to be sure.
Take care Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I just wanted to thank all of you for taking the time to post your comments. I really do appreciate everyone and your points of view. I also appreciate the encouragement that's offered.
I do know I have to work MY program, not his, but as CG said, easier said than done! I have my own session with the counselor tomorrow ~ we'll see how that goes. I sometimes feel like there's really no point in going, since I already know that ultimately it's up to me to stay in the marriage or get out. Seems a waste of money, but my sponsor suggested I do give it a try.
Thanks again, and I love you all bunches and bunches~
, I always say AA is just the place where they learn how not to drink one minute at a time, one day at a time. I HAVE YET TO SEE ANYONE MATURE IN AA. One of my family members is 7 years in AA and OMG the lies he tells. Then when I suggest AA to someone else who knows this person is in AA, they say "what do I want to be like him?" <sigh>