(((((Edward)))))

Hey - what are you thinking?? How did you get to AA??

This is your son you're talking about. I'm glad you still go to AA, but now - you need Al-Anon, too. You were abandoned - don't abandon your son!

Learn how to detach with love and not enable him. You enabled your son already by lying about
who was driving the car. I understand that you didn't want in the "system.", but enabling as you
already know won't help your son. Your son needs his father and you probably need him, too.

Some people say that AA keeps alcoholics sober, but Al-non teaches people how to live. I'm
adding "with alcoholics." Many people in Al-Anon have sons just like yours. I don't believe
your son meant to become alcoholic - just like maybe you didn't get out of bed one day and
decided, "I'm going to start drinking and become an alcoholic because I want to." Please pray
that your HP will give you compassion and the ability to use tough love when it's needed.

This is just my rambling - take what you can use and leave the rest. Please keep coming back -
newcomers are our most important people.

With compassion for you and your son, Carol

Hi ya Edward-

You sound like an no BS kind of guy -- detachment to the nth degree. hmmmm This is definately the place for you I am glad you are here.

Here are a couple of things to think about, first is accountablity -- preventing him from facing his own consequences because you wanted to prevent him from "being in the system" -- does that help an Alcoholic want to get sober? Here we learn that by enabling our A's it only drags out their hitting bottom and in the process drags us into our own kind of hell.

The second is control -- you know that you can't control another person's drinking or whether or not they want sobriety -- but you have control over yourself, your actions and how you choose to act/react toward the A's in your life. Here we work on detachment with love (the love part is the hardest) and compassion-- which for me is love with understanding -- knowing that there is a person inside that disease that deserves my understanding and love. (not pity or loathing)

You know all too well that sobriety is available to the A's in your life if they want it, choose it and work for it. You know it is a possible for them. In alanon it's not about the A's as much as much as it is about us. One of our promises is the ability to have peace whether that A in your life is still drinking or not. Their drinking affects us -- we work on how to keep our side of the street clean, acceptace of our powerlessness over others, and keeping serenity.

No one can tell you what to do, and it may be that for you cutting this person out of your life is what you must do -- you wont be judge for that. But you are here so I hope you'll give this a try before you decide that is what you must do.

Please keep coming back. Get a copy of How Alanon works for Families and Friends of Alcohlics and give a Face 2 Face meeting a try. Keep an open mind -- you know the A side, now you're joining a group that lots have said is Way sicker than the A's -- welcome to Alanon

Luna

Sounds like you've been through an awful lot of hurt growing up in the disease and then watching those you love suffering though it. During your years in sobriety, have you consulted with a professional? It was something that as a part of my step work was of a tremendous benefit to me.
I too would not completely write off your son yet--it sounds like your heart is broken and it seems like the easiest thing to do. You are correct that we cannot help the suffering alcholic who doesn't want it, but it might not be a bad idea to pray for them, if only for god's will.
You may also want to go back to the alanon/alateen web site for some face to face meetings to begin your journey and get a foundation. Your anger and hurt are understandable, and being with people who have been there done that will help you all the more.

Aloha Edward...I can relate having been there and done that to some degree until I learned better.  Been in the Al-Anon Family Groups for a bit and am a member of AA for 9 years less while staying sober in Al-Anon.  Have (had) a son that was an alcoholic/addict.  I was divorced from his mother and she kept him and the others away from me for what seemed centuries.  During that period of time I got sober and he got drunk and high.  When he came to live with me he was a full blown alcoholic/addict.  I parted from him because being around him threatened my Al-Anon program and sobriety.  I left him and was in love with him so stayed in love with him and then his wife and then his fetal alcoholic/addict son and daughter and another daughter. 

I had come to understand and if I hated anything it was this most cunning, powerful and baffling disease of alcoholism and not the people under the influence.  I learned that in Al-Anon and my qualifier was my second wife and full blown alcoholic who I was very smitten with and had to part with also.  I didn't hate her either.  If I did I would have never been able to accept her with compassion either.  Knowing that both of these people I loved suffered from a life threatening compulsion that they had absolutely no defense against made me hurt in the pit of my stomach for them, the disease and for many others.

I cannot not love.  If I try to not love it takes too much of a toll on my spirit and I become fearful, angry, judgmental, sarcastic, self centered, arrogant, and all those other pieces of the "ism" that end in resentful isolation.  I drank while in resentful isolation.  I was taught that resentments is the very last luxury I can afford and that isolation was worst relationship I could be in; a crazy person trying to get himself sane.  It never worked before program and program doesn't make it work now.

I learned that drunks like hugs too and that my hands were not welded together so that I could hug a practicing drunk and let go (part my hands, open my arms and let the drunk free.)  I learned that when ever I was angry at the drunk for being a drunk I was giving respect to the disease of alcoholism and facing my fear of being without control either of my own sobriety or the sobriety of others.  It's all about fear of, and fear to.  And when I am afraid I have abandoned faith in the face of my own real sobriety. 

Miracles are not exclusive to my self.  I am not the most special son of God and God's love is unconditional.  If your HP loves you unconditionally then your HP
 loves unconditionally all others regardless of how they are attached to yourself.  You do not have the authority to do it differently unless you are practicing fear.  You can only give yourself that authority and then who is your HP?

Welcome to Al-Anon.  This may be another miracle coming your way if you want another miracle.  You are not alone, nor are you the first from that "other" program to enter the doors of the Family Groups.  You must leave your AA affiliation outside.  The steps are the same (adapted a bit).  The traditions are the same (adapted a bit).  The principals are the same. 

The philosophy is much broader and "if you keep and open mind, you will find help."  I welcome you here.  Dive in.  Read the post from as far back as you can and continue to participate.  Your fears will diminish and your HP will become more real.  Your faith will grow without boundaries and you will find peace and serenity while staying sober and supportive.  From my experience.

(((((hugs)))))  

((((ENE))))
I just feel the need to point out that getting drunk at age 17 and driving into a guard rail does not make a person an alcoholic.  He's a kid.  Kids do stupid things - really stupid things sometimes.  I drank at 17.  I drove way too fast with too many people in the car - drunk.  It's a wonder no one was ever injured or killed.  I am 39 now and I am not an alcoholic.  Why, I don't know, because I spent many years abusing the stuff.  Now I can take it or leave it.  It has no control over me at the moment.  My HP is very much in charge of me. 
I was very aware that my parents would not rescue me from consequences of my own stupidity.  My mother's dad was an alcoholic till he died - she was 38/39 when he died of alcohol related heart failure.  Had a talk yesterday with my mom about letting people (our children) live their own lives.  My STBX got very angry with me a couple of years ago when I told him if he ever did anything that he deserved to go to jail for I would not bail him out.  I learned that from my parents.  He did not like that.  But he is very much a high functioning, smart and fairly responsible, but confused, intermittent A with all the "isms" and a serious Victim with a capitol V.  He learned that at his mother's knee, when she was kicking him and making him clean up after her.  She is still very active in her isms and addictions, too.  
My daughter is 9.  I am learning to give control of her person and her life to her and hopefully teaching her to let her HP be in charge.  It is so hard not to catch her every time she falls!  I know I have not let her fall enough on her own and so I have robbed her of her power, of her life.  It's tricky because as parents it's our job to teach them how to ride before we hand over the reins.  Some kids you can "teach" till you are blue in the face and it seems to never sink in.  If I am doing my part - "keeping my side of the street clean" - or in the case of kids "leading the horse to water",  - to the best of my ability and asking HP for help in that, well, I can't "make her drink" - or not drink, as the case may be! 


Wow, these metaphors are getting all mixed up!  First she was riding the horse, then she was the horse, drinking water, then not drinking alcohol...  Whew, I know I'm dizzy.  I'm leaving it out there in the hope that someone can get something - I know I'm not the only weird one on this board...  ;)


Sorry, ENE, I know this is really serious.  We can't do a thing about what has already happened.  But we can use the knowledge we have gained to make decisions and boundaries for our future and that of our dear and very vulnerable children.  They aren't called our "dependents" for nothin'.  They depend on us sometimes to the extent that we are their HP in their eyes.  We know we're not superheroes or gods.  They need to know that, too.  We can be totally lovingly and humbly honest with our kids about what they can do and what they cannot do while they are in our care, what we will tolerate and what we will not tolerate, and what the consequences will be if they violate those boundaries.  We can ask our HP to help us set the boundaries and to help us defend them if necessary and to help us carry through on our promises.  Sometimes I have to say, "HP, You are gonna have to handle this 'cause I am just drowning, here." 

I wish you peace.