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This makes no sense at all. AGAIN. After I had chilled about my A driving the other day, after we discussed it again yesterday, after him saying "it was a rash decision that I shouldn't have made" (sigh...I've heard THAT so many times since he's been sober that I really don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth), he was driving again this morning. Only this time it was in the DARK, where he surely COULDN'T get caught. Keep it low-key and it's ok.
As I said before, he's a mover and he had a big move this morning out of state. He had to meet his driver at 6 am, so he got up early enough to eat, read his AA lit and meditate (so disciplined, isn't he) before leaving. I just so happened to wake up to tinkle and looked outside on my way to the bathroom. I saw him outside in the still-dark, putting all his moving blankets and etc outside of the garage so that they would be ready when he and his driver got here with the moving vehicle to load them. I then went back to bed. But for some reason unknown to me, I decided 10 minutes later to get up and check on the cats. I never do this. As I got up I saw the moving vehicle outside, and my A was loading all his gear. No driver was helping. I watched in the dark of the house, and he kept looking toward the house as he loaded. Maybe to make sure I wasn't up and seeing this? When he finished, he got in the driver's seat and drove away.
So I was pissed. AGAIN. It cannot sink into his brain not to drive. Even in the dark. So I did what all Alanoners do when they see their A is lying to them again, I wanted to confront him. Maybe the reason I did that was to let him know that I'm not oblivious to it, and that he has been found out. I know he thought I was sleeping peacefully, which I should have been doing. I had no reason to think anything. I called his cell and I asked what time his driver was gonna meet him in town. He said 6 am. This was 5:45 am that I saw him drive away. I then said, "would it have cost you much more to have (driver) show up a few minutes earlier to pick you up and load the gear?" He said, AGAIN, "I just wanted to get a head start on the job, we have to drive out of state, and I only drove in the alley (not true, you have to get on the main street at some point)...blah blah blah" excuse after excuse to justify his driving w/o a license, and that "it was just another rash decision I guess I shouldn't have made". Do ya think??? I think that he has this comment pre-recorded to come out in situations like this.
A very tiny, tiny part of me wants to call the cops when I see him driving, but then that will come back to bite ME financially, and we all know it's all about me..
The counselor had told me the other day that I'm seeing who he REALLY is when he lies and I find out. DUHHHH. That at least I should be thankful for THAT, that I'm smarter today than yesterday, something like that. She said to not think of it as he broke my trust, to think of it as I'm less naive (sp?) than I was before finding out. Personally, I like to think of it as trying to TRUST him again, not being naive.
I think what's really bothering you here is that if he's not willing to be honest with you about the so called small stuff, like what time his driver comes for him, the bigger stuff you don't feel confident about him being honest about. Like, let's say he comes home late from a meeting: you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, honest you do, but if you can't trust him to be direct and accountable to the law about his drivers liscensure, how can you be honest with him about him coming home late? how do you know he was really working with a newcomer who is so out in left field that the newcomer needs the comfort of someone who's been there, done that, et cetera? I think the other thing that would bother me here is that, if he won't listen to some authority with the muscle to inflict long term, severe consequences like jail, prison, absconding wages, what does that say about your relationship, where you personally can't enforce such harsh penalities for disrespect, lying, manipulating, and so on? I mean, what you're really seeing here is someone who talks the talk and doesn't walk the walk and you have a right to be right because it really really hurts. I think lastly what I'm hearing here is someone who is feeling as if they're being betrayed not only first by someone in active disease but again by someone in so called sobriety. Its as if your loved one doesn't want to get sober, or at least doesn't want to really give it all he's got. It's like he likes the perks but doesn't want to do what it takes to get them. and it's like, "wait a minute--you really think this is all about you, don't you? you really think that you have the right to just steam roll all over me, all over us, and do whatever, and get away with it, don't you?" And yeah, that would hurt me, that would hurt me alot. I wuold, if I were you, set some pretty hard and fast boundries. I would set up some pretty significant rules, setting out exactly how you know that he's playing games and screwing around. I garentee he's not telling his sponsor or his home group these things--they would have come down on him like a ton of bricks and eaten him for lunch, if for no other reason than he's lying to you. I would also express, maybe in a letter, exactly how I feel. I would tell him that "I know what you're doing. I know that you're playing games. I know you're not being honest. Be aware that I'm not really believing what you're saying anymore because you're not acting like an honest person." That's what I would do.
I think every work place has a person like one of my coworkers. I love her to death, but she is a gossip - worse, what she doesn't know, she sort of makes up. Most of the staff knows this, yet when she tells them something, they swallow it. I think it's the same with an alcoholic. We wanted to believe for so long, but found out we couldn't. Even after we know that they're not telling us the truth (about anything - important or trivial), we've been patterned to believe. I mean, why would they lie about something so insignificant? Because they do. Like my co-worker, I have to stop and take a deep breath and consider the source. Marion
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Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit ("Bidden or not bidden, God is present") - Erasmus
Well, it's his life, if he wants to drive without a license and take his chances that's on him. I wouldn't harp on him about it I'd just let it go and probably eventually he will have consequences for that. I wouldn't let that be a wedge between you and he though. I know you don't want him to get in trouble probably a lot of the reason is because it affects you financially and in other ways too but he has to make his own decisions and take his own consequences. Alcoholics and Addicts lie, that's just what they do! I think 99% of the reason they lie to us is because we put our expectations on them. If we have no expectations then they have no motive to lie. If he's meant to be caught he will. I could see calling the police if he was drunk driving but for just driving without a license, that seems extreme.
What I see here is an alcoholic doing what an alcoholic does - in this case, lie. Checking up on him, confronting him, and so on, do as much good with this behaviour as they did with the drinking - that is, none. Is his driving a deal breaker for you? If so, tell him so, and then the next time, do whatever you said you would do. If not, if what you are willing to do is nag and confront about it, then I would say to let it go. If he is caught, he will bear the consequences. Your part is to do what you can to minimize the effect of those consequences on yourself - that would be things like making sure that assets that could be lost are in your name only, etc.
Your husband is newly sober. A person does not go from being an active alcoholic to a sober, right thinking, trustworthy one overnight. You have every right to want what you want from him - sexual fidelity, reliability, sobriety - but what, realistically, are the chances of you getting it right away? If you find that even with the alcohol gone, you just can't stand the 'ism', then face that and make your own choices accordingly. Right now, you do not have the husband you want, you have the one you've got. If you are willing to give him a chance to change into something closer to what you want, stand back and give him that chance. If you have had enough and are fed up to the back teeth, then that's OK too, and certainly understandable, but you need to make that clear, both to him and to yourself.
I am saying what I say from experieince - my husband's first year and a half or so of sobriety were very rocky. He was not the miserable "dry drunk" that so many talk about, or not very often. What he did was rush about madly. looking for other things to fill the void that not drinking left in him. Some were healthy - meetings, spritiuality, more time with our kids. Some were less so - almost compulsive shopping and online AA chatting. Some were out and out bad - virtual sex online and a short affair.
I also took a while to get healthier. The years of drinking had left a legacy with me too - bitterness, lack of forgiveness, and a habitual blaming of him for everything that I did not like about my life. Once I started to 'get' alanon, I found myself countless times thinking "Wait a minute, why is that HIS fault?" - I was just in the habit of assuming that everything wrong led in some way back to him. For me, a big moment came when I was once more 'accidentally' going through his pockets when a wash of shame swept over me. I realized that I had no control over his actions. If he was going to cheat on me, he would. His job took him out of town 2/3 of the time, I was not going to hide under his motel room bed. In the same way, I could not make him walk past the 'happy hour' lounge and up to his room every night when he got off work. I just had to let go, let what would be, be, set boundaries for what I would and would not accept, and protect myself as best I could. I stopped searching for evidence. The next time some thrust itself upon me, I reacted differently than ever before. No raging, no blaming, no "how can you do this to me?" Instead, I told him fairly calmly, but very firmly, that this was the last time. I told him I was done keeping his secrets and would leave him the next time, and speak openly about why. I didn't care what it did to his sobriety, that was his business not mine.
The way it worked for us, that was the last time I found any evidence of any kind of infidelity.
At the time, I assumed that before long, he would do it again and I would have to leave, and I started making plans and setting up a Plan B. I was at a point where either option was fine - he could get better or I could get gone, but either way I was not dancing that dance any longer. I totally gave up snooping on him, and within about a year, I truly had given up wondering what he was doing and worrying about it (as opposed to faking that unconcern) If he was up to it again, sooner or later I would find out - someone would tell me, real evidence would thrust itself upon me - and at that time, I would leave. Until then, I let it go (except for protecting myself, if you understand me). I truly do not know what happened in that next year - when he was out of town he could have been doing anything. I do believe that eventually he beat it - another addiction and inappropriate response to life's stresses left behind, but I don't know when. All I know is that it stopped defining MY life.
I went on at such length here because I hope that there is something useful that you can take from my experiences. Of course, your situation is your own, and you will deal with it the best way for you. In other words, take what you like....
Ya know, for me, I quit asking my AH questions I knew would force him to lie to me about. That way he didn't tell a lie and I didn't have to hear one. I knew the truth and that was all I needed. When he wouldn't come home at night, I stopped asking him where he was and what he was doing. He only ever told me what he thought I wanted to hear and I could never believe him. I elimated that stress from our relationship. I knew where he was and he knew I knew. No point in verbalizing it.
I had to detach. He is a grown man and he has to make his own decisions no matter how stupid they are. Right now he is currently driving w/out insurance and I am sure the bank is looking for his truck to repo it b/c of default in payment. Basically if a cop pulls him over right now, he will find out that my AH is driving w/out insurance as soon as he runs his license into the computer. BIG TROUBLE there. I may be mistaken here too but I believe that if he doesn't have insurance, his license is automatically revoked until he shows proof of insurance AND pays all kinds of fees for letting it run out in the 1st place.
So you see my AH is doing stupid things too and I cannot control him. I just have to detach and let him do his own thing. Of course my situation is a bit different than yours in several areas......one being that I am separated from my AH and he isn't living w/me. Therefore, his consequences don't really affect me too much.
My thoughts and prayers are with you. Keep your chin up and work on that detaching.
Wow, incredible feedback! I was thinking some of the same . . . "checking up on him" is just like marking his bottles or dumping them out. Same same. Yeah, he's sober so he's supposed to be different, but it doesn't change what YOU are doing, which is wasting your time monitoring him. Sounds to me like the time will be better spent making sure whatever happens to him, it doesn't affect YOU or cost you dearly.
If you feel more secure about yourself, what he does will matter little. You can't stop him from driving, in this case, anymore than you could stop him from drinking before. That's just a fact.
Oh I believe it "computes" alright. Alcoholics aren't stupid. He just doesn't care, and you can't make him or anyone "care" either. It's delusional, don't buy into it, take care of you. From someone who did not take care of me until it was almost too late, waiting for my A to get a grip, it will save you much heartache.
Crap like this is exactly why I made the desision to look for another man. I am so tired of the lying and yes I do believe that they think about it first and come up with an excuse to tell us. Maybe they like getting caught. I also know too well about it hitting you in the pocket. I tetered with calling the cops when he would drive drunk or him risking someone's child. I hated that so much. I hate the way he rationalizes everything to fit him. He can go a month without seeing his kids and he will make up and excuse to why it was ok and just expect me not to care and let it go. I am soooooooooooooooo done with him. He is soon going to realize that when he gets the divorce papers and see's that he will be alone and no one will take care of him and that it's MY turn to just not care. Sorry I'm venting so I'll shut up. :) But I do understand. (((((LOVEYA)))))
An addict is gonna do what an addict is gonna do, sober or not. I can understand tehe frustration. I'm with you on this one, if you call the cops, then it comes back to bite you in the . But there's that part of me who wants to know: What will it take for them to learn their lesson? I sometimes want to say: "See I told you this would happen!" But then I have to ask, what good would it do me? To prove that I'm always right even when I'm wrong? I already know that!
I guess at this point, I'd just have to give it up. If he gets caught, he gets caught. So be it. You already know you can't trust him. Now you have to figure out, what next, especially if this behavior isn't going to change.
Love and blessings to you and your family. Kiss the kitties.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
I think that he has this comment pre-recorded to come out in situations like this.
when I see him driving, but then that will come back to bite ME financially, and we all know it's all about me..
. But there's that part of me who wants to know: What will it take for them to learn their lesson? I sometimes want to say: "See I told you this would happen!" But then I have to ask, what good would it do me? To prove that I'm always right even when I'm wrong? I already know that! 
