The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
My A husband is willing to talk about the weather, work, about someone's house repairs, etc. He will talk about almost anything except family issues or wanting to discuss us. We have been married for over 20 years but his drinking didn't get really bad until 5 years ago. He writes and states he loves me. He will also state he does "service work" around the house, etc. but I cannot get him to willing discuss suggestions for our family trip, the problem with our teenage son's car, about our younger daughter's struggles with school, our finances and investments (since I have been paying the bills for the last 20 years - it's my concern), etc. It's like here's him on one side of the fence and the family and I on the other. He's here but he's not here (no show of caring, etc)
Today, I asked for his help on solving our son's car problem, made a suggestion and asked for his opinion. He emails back "good luck!" What is that???
If I try to iniate cuddling, etc. then he states "he's tired" but if he does it then its acceptable.
I would like to see us attend a marriage communication one day seminar but he is now avoiding me since I mentioned it. I already told him I am going but I would really like it if we could attend together.
this sounds familiar. Is your A still using? When my AH is actively using he is useless to me. He sits on the couch and watches tv or sleeps. I pay the bills. I take care of the kid's issues (10 and 14) When AH is sober, he has an opinion on these topics--- but frankly, I am not that interested in his opinion at this point. I have been functioning fine without it (can you sense the resentment in my typing though?)
My AH also is too tired for "affection" but then complains that I don't initiate it enough.??!!!??? as the kids say--WHATEVER. I tell him that participation in the activities of the household is an aphrodisiac. ha.
I dont think my AH doesn't care about me and the kids-- he just cares about himself WAY MORE. the narcissism of addiction. fun to live with.
take care- Jeanne
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In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip.- Daniel L. Reardon
Doesn't have anything to do with what you are or are not doing. It's him. He has a disease, a mental illness. If he were autistic, or schitzophrenic, you wouldn't expect him to act like a normal person. But alcoholism hides itself so well, in a culture where everybody drinks, that we can be fooled into thinking that it must be us, or that they are deliberately being difficult, or whatever.
Unless and until he gets so unhappy with the way things are that he seeks out recovery, he will continue to be the way he is. That is a fact, and one that you have absolutely no control over. You DO have control over your own actions. Can you accept him as he is, learn techniques to protect yourself from his illness, and continue to have him in your life? Or is is just too awful for you, so that you need to separate yourself from him? Alanon can help you decide where you lie on this spectrum, and can teach you some tools to cope with it all.
One thing though, I firmly believe, from what I have seen in my own life, and what I have learned through other alanon members. Marriage to an alcoholic, even one in recovery, is not going to be like a "normal" marriage. Both partners will always have to struggle, to some extent, with some aspects of the disease. This does not mean that you can't be happy, but it does mean that comparing your marriage to some ideal of what love "should" be like is setting yoruself up for failure and unhappiness. It is what it is, and it is important to accept and face your reality.
Counseling will not do any good. Aism is the primary issue or problem. It would be like treating an abraision on a broken leg, ya still cannot walk on it.
If he ever goes into recovery, a counselor with AA experience would be good. When you look for one, find one who knows Al Anon.
A's are very, very sick, especially when they are using. They are basically insane, insane meaning not able to make good decisions, out of touch with reality, liars, self centered,manipulators, and on, and on. They are unable to feel emotions like a person does when they are well.
Have you ever been on pain pills or anti anxiety drugs? They dull out your emotions, as they dull out the nerves who usually feel the pain.
I remember being sick on pain med and thinking oh this is how he feels. I had NO desire to be touched or touch or talk. no way, leave me alone. too much work and right then I did not care.
Plus most use so they don't have to deal with things in life. Things that if they did deal with them, they would grow and mature.
If we do not meet challenges we never learn we can over come them.
You did not say if he was using or not. Really makes no difference if he is not on a program of recovery. On a program, if he chose to, he would make sure he engages in the family. If he is just sober then that is all he is going to think about, not using, thinking about using, and being crabby and self consumed. It is a disease, with specific symptoms. What he is doing is classic.
No their is nothing you can do for him. I am sad for you. I learned I had to do it all myself. Just the way it is when you are married to an A. Once I accepted the fact all I could do was appreciate what he could give, I was ok.
marriage seminars are for marriages that are basically the norm. Whatever that is. I would think it might be good if they have been on a program for awhile.
But in my experience, nope. I know it would be too much coming in at once.
From what my A said, when he was in recovery, he had to keep everything, routine. I called it Tunnel vision but it is not the same, he did it to survive.It helped him stay on his "plan" his "path."
A plan of recovery is like a map. a path with all his routines, getting up praying to hp, saying today I choose not to drink. kissing me good bye, getting to work on time, he was a self employed contractor. he called if he was later than six. He was honest, caring, engaged in our life as best as he could.
He chose to not lie, went to regular meetings. did not use profanity, just all the things he chose to be. All those things we take for granted that happen naturally for us.
The A is not wired like a non addict.
Anyway I am gabbing too much. I am so so sad you are so miserable. I really am. I have been there big time too. MANY if not all of us have been. I remember when all the love stopped.
No more flowers or cards, no more kisses or hugs, no more making love, no more showers together or being buddies. No one to hold me when I cried. no one who appreciated my good cooking anymore...
I know hon. wish I could change it for you. love,debilyn
I was just reading, "Dilemma of The Alcoholic Marriage" and saw your post. I was thinking what a good solution might be and came to the conclusion that maybe you can give your husband choices with the right tone. For example, Do you want to go to Key West or Naples for vacation? I don't know if it will work, but it doesn't give the impression to the alcoholic that we are putting them down or being a martyr. Just a suggestion. It's so darn frustrating at times!!
I can only speak from my experiences and when my ah feels pushed into a corner he gets mad and ignores us. They do not like to talk about feelings or problems. You have to remember that they think THEY are the "victim". What a load of crap. I also have control over our finances and he hates that as well. I quit asking for his opinion because I know it's going to be the opposite as mine so I make the plans and if he wants to attend then he does, if not so be it. I'll still go and have a good time without him. His loss. I have to say that my life withough ah here is a happy one. I do what I want when I want. I sometimes run things by ah and he has some kind of input but its nothing I would do but I listen as if it were important. I shut my ah off of me all together, no love, no cuddling and no sex and now he could not be more into me if you painted a bulls eye on me. Tell your ah that he can't have you.....he will want you then...hahaha They are backwards! Good luck sweets.
His drinking has nothing to do with not loving you , his drinking isn't about you . As the drinking progresses the less interested they are in family affairs , you do a great job so why should he bother ? He knows u will take care of things . responsibility is not a common thing with a drinker they aviod it at all cost. This disease takes the man and leaves us with someone we don't know , when u live with an active alcoholic you are alone . period I assume u are not attending al anon meetings , I hope u will consider going for yourself they will make a diff in your life , u will meet people who understand wehre your at and will share what they have done to make thier lives better wihile living with and loving an alcoholic. Your worth the effort I hope u find meetings soon .
Hi CO2, I can't add much to the replies you've gotten so far but YUP, knodding head up and down, that's it, that's alcoholism's effect on loved ones. Eveyones alcoholic is a different, unique individual, but the disease and it's effects are the same.
Alcoholics, sober or not, who aren't working some kind of recovery program, be it AA or whatever, are deeply miserable. They are in emotional pain most of the day, or are attempting NOT to feel emotional pain. This takes all their energy, leaving none for family. You are a "casualty" of this disease. Nothing you've done caused it, no matter what he says. It is really, really tough to be in your situation, my heart goes out to you.
What helped me was the revelation that I could not change a hair on his head, he was going down with his disease or not. But I didn't have to. Nope, no way! This revelation was a gift from God. It freed me to let him go and begin the work Alanon talks about, the work on myself.
A little of my story (see I can't shut up after all :D): My A is a binger, and went to a town 80 miles away to binge and do his thing. He'd be gone for a couple of weeks at a time. So I HAD to learn to live for myself. The other choice was to rage and pine away while he was gone.
It became apparent that when he was gone, I was MUCH happier, ie, more peaceful, focussed, enjoying the days. When he came home, the universe shifted and all the planets got pulled into orbit around him. As he continued to disappear, I stopped orbiting around him too. I didn't realize I was doing it. They are such black holes of need, and you never know what they'll do next. I began to have days of peacefulness and joy when he was home and lying on the couch suffering the consequences of his binges (moaning, demanding, trying to pick fights). This detatchment from him was my savior. I got to the point I hoped SOMETHING would just stop him and get him out of my hair. He reacted to the detatchment by escalating his bad behavior, blamed me for his drug and alcohol use, got a "girlfriend", spent thousands and thousands of dollars till we were almost broke, wrecked two trucks, finally ended up in jail.
I have a restraining order, so I don't know where he is or what he's doing, and I don't care as long as he's not bothering me. The sheriff called yesterday looking for him. I almost laughed. I guess most aren't serious about restraining orders! How the hell should I know?? I'm not supposed to know! Anyway, I felt supreme relief that I could legally make him stay away. I thought, "It's over! Thank God it's over!"
Nope! It's only just begun.
Alanon is about working on yourself, focussing on YOU, not the alcoholic, not anyone else. We learn we are powerless to change others, but not ourselves. We want a better life? We change ourselves to make it better. It is possible, in fact, it's the only thing that IS possible.
And it's possible -- not easy -- to have good days while the alcoholic is home raising Cain. That's how I knew this Alanon thing was on to something true.
It's a waste of your life to cry over something you can't change. The alcoholic will never care how much you cry, their own misery is forefront in their mind. I remember CLEARLY wondering how he could do what he did if he loved me. He certainly SAID he did, begged me for love. He said he loved me, loved our farm, wanted our life. But his actions said something else; he didn't care, he couldn't be bothered. I stopped feeling crazy when I remembered actions speak louder than words. He was actively "telling me" what he wanted.
And it wasn't me. By this point, I didn't want him either. But it still hurt so much to realize he'd made his choice. We all go through this, and it hurts all of us to know alcohol, drugs, and their using "buddies" are more important than the woman or man they married. But where else to start?
Now I'm going on and on. Must be the iced tea!
I tell you my story in hopes you won't feel so alone. I hope you keep coming and posting on this board, attend some Alanon meetings, connect with someone who sparks your eye. Wishing you the best, and I hope to see you around here again! Kim
To answer the first question - my AH is in recovery and hasn't had a drink since. He truly believes doing things around the house (more so than ever) is showing me love. I think I just have a different need than that. I want him to talk with me and not just the few things like the weather, etc.
I know I need to be patient - but like some of the others have said - it seems I like I get the short end of the stick. I do go to an AA meeting once a week with him and once in a while I go to Alanon. I also do things with and without the kids and enjoy that too. Most of the time I feel lonely is when he is with me because I know he isn't really there. I also think my expectations may need lowering. Yes, I am extremely happy he is no longer drinking and how he talks about trying not to be self-centered but the actions and lack of communication make it different.
By the way, he is always in a great mood after seeing his sponsor (once a week) because he speak with him while then he comes home extremely happy and acts thrilled to see me and wants me to spend time with him.
Just for FYI - the marriage seminar is based on communication and how each one of us need a different form of it to feel like the other is caring about what is said, etc. It breaks communication down to whether someone needs to perform tasks, others need verbal or physical attention, etc. I went to one for children and most of it works quite well.
Once again posting my feelings on site have been helpful to my self-esteem and gives me hope.
Obviously by the replies it is a familiar theme. Even sober they are self absorbed. Mine would do the same thing. And I continual said what about me, what about the kids, let's talk, and we did go to counseling. He has since moved out and is even more self absorbed. It is like he has no on or off button. I have been told here many times to not go to the hardware store for milk. So my strategy has been to find help and comfort from other people - friends, family, strangers. Hope this helps.
I just wanted to offer you my support and understanding. Theres not much I can add to the great wisdom you have already been given in your replies.
It took me a long time to understand that the diesase and mental illness that is part of it means that the Acannot function as a rational person, while they are not on a recovery programme. I expected affection and love and responsibile behaviour and support from myA. I had to learn that he was actually incapable of giving those things to me. The disease had him gripped. How sad.
Try to look after yourself, you deserve it. You are in my prayers AM
Just one more thought I don't think I saw in all the previous replies. Maybe your spouse is at a point where he doesn't know what to do in regard to healing his relationship with his family, so he is doing what he does know how to do, fixing up the little things around the house. I think it sounds like a way of showing his love, and possibly a way of making amends for not being there. Just a thought.
The hardest part of recovery for me was getting rid of the fantacy I ahd in my head of the way my life should be . you know the pic of us walking hand in hand on a beach somewhere , or sitting cuddled up on a sofa . sheeeeesh When I let go of the fantacy and accepted what was offered , he changed and started to give more . We spoke of it only once and I asked why he started to do more , he said cause he no longer felt the pressure to perfom by relaxing and accepting he felt free to be who he wanted to be . So one more time all i had to do was to let go of the expectations and be grateful for what was .
First off, I have to thank everyone who has posted their thoughts, views, and advice here. I'm very new to alanon and as there was noone in the chatroom tonight, I brought my sorry self here! I'm so glad I did since reading all these words has been a saving grace for me tonight!! Thank you to everyone and my prayers to you all as we struggle through this emotional mudslide. I have to let go of my anger and get on with my life....
