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I didn't cause it. I cannot control it. I cannot cure it.
I guess I need some ESH here because every time he goes off on a "vacation" I remember that he was 25 years sober until I came into his life. For the last 5 years I have lost all trust in him because of the drinking binges. I have got to the point where I do not believe anything he says. I am reminded of what Judge Judy said to a mother..."Do you know when teenagers are lying?" she asked. Mom shook her head to indicate the negative. "When their mouths are moving," Judy answered. Well, that's how I am beginning to feel about the A.
But, to the point. Since he had 25 years sobriety before I met him, perhaps it has to do with me that he binges once in a while. I am a strong-minded, strong-willed woman. At least on the outside....I am opinionated, I can curse like a sailor (no disrespect intended to sailors, so don't hit me with that one), and I am capable of taking care of myself. A hard combination for some men to live with. So I wonder...I could try to tone myself down a bit, but I can't see that happening...so, is it just possible I could be responsible for this relapse of recent years. He says so when he is drunk, and as the ancient Romans said, "In vino es veritas." In the wine, there is truth.
Diva
-- Edited by Diva at 09:56, 2007-07-05
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Quit beating on yourself sweetie. They drink because their wives are too meek, to self assured, because the weather is too warm, too hot, they are happy, they are sad, they got a new job, they lost a job, the dog died, they got a new dog. You get the picture.
Of course it is always easier to blame our shortcomings on another person. I have yet to meet a drunk who did not have an excuse that explained why someone else made them do what they do.
I am also strong willed, opinionated, can curse like a trucker, am self sufficient and I cannot make anyone start or stop drinking.
Please do not tone down the Diva that we know here. We love her.
lilms
-- Edited by lilms at 09:40, 2007-07-05
-- Edited by lilms at 11:16, 2007-07-05
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Two things: 1. Recovery is a process, not an event.....and.... 2. You only get to go around once. Leave em laughing and make it worth your while
No (((Diva))) I sincerely believe you are not responsible for his relapses. I used to feel the same way about AH's drug and alcohol abuse thinking, Geez if I didn't get pregnant with twins maybe he wouldn't be so stressed out and wouldn't use. Truth is... he was abusing alcohol and drugs way long before I met him. He just attempted to control it and stay sober because I'd asked. Never lasted long though. The difference now.... he appears to want this life of sobriety and appears to be working hard for it.
Your personality is your's alone. You sound like a leader Diva and you are meant to be that. No need to change unless you feel you should change, not for anyone else but you.
I too am a strong willed woman, very independent, a leader. I take charge and command when needed. I'm not going to gush and prance around him and tell him how big and strong he is, its not who I am. I can see now that he struggles with my personality, my harshness. I realize I have difficulty saying how I feel without sounding like I'm scolding or directing someone. Most times I'm not even aware that I'm doing it. So I'm just praying for the knowledge, will, and courage to change that up a bit. I still need to speak my mind, but I could learn to soften it up a bit. Keep embracing yourself while he is gone, you deserve it.
Peace to you, Twinmom~
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"The people who don't mind matter and the people who mind, don't matter". (Dr. Seuss)
I don't believe that we are responsible for them picking up their drink. But there is a part of me, that believes that if I'm part of the problem in the relationship (especially when the A is sober) then I have two choices: change my reaction to it or continue on in the same way. Like you, I am prone to being pigheaded. That has led to some challenges. So when I worked my steps I really had to examine that part of me. But I had to change not to save my marriage but because I needed to change for me. It could only help me. The fact that it also helped us, was an added bonus.
Love and blessings to you.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
You are taking his 25 years of sobriety at his word, why believe that when you are having trouble believing everything else?
After the last binge before the A went to jail, he insisted that his drug and alcohol use was a "symptom" of the marraige falling apart. I told him it was WHY the marraige was falling apart. He said if I would just show him the tiniest bit of affection he wouldn't need to go out and use. Truth was, I didn't show him any affection. I felt NONE. And I wasn't about to fall for that.
I'm sure he still blames me for all that's happened in the last month, that's how he is.
He can blame me till the cows come home, the sun falls into the sea or I grow another head. It's how he needs to look at it to continue doing what he wants to do.
Ya know, my AH has said to me that when he is drunk, that is when he tells all. He says alcohol is his truth serum. He claims he can tell me things when he is drunk that he normally wouldn't have the nerve to do. Well, I THINK THAT WHEN HE IS DRUNK, HIS BRAIN IS SO DISTORTED THAT IT CAN'T MAKE HEADS OR TAILS OUT OF ANYTHING. So that is bunk in my book.
I find strength in your posts, your straight forwardness. Don't change yourself just b/c an A in your life blames you for his binging. That is bunk too. If you were causing him so much misery, why hasn't he left you? Instead he uses you as his excuse to drink.
I used to think that I was the reason my AH went of on alcohol and drug binges. I was the reason he cheated on me. Ya know, the typical thoughts, I am too fat (not! I am 5'3" and weigh 112 pounds), maybe my hair is too long (not! cut it short & nothing changed), maybe I don't party enough (nope, not that either b/c he never wants me to party with him EVER). So I came to the conclusion that I was NOT the problem. He was and still is.
So you take a deep breath....trust in who you are b/c you are amazing.
If I posted saying I thought I had made my AH or my Daughter drink or use - You would be one of the first to reply - reminding me of the 3 c's and that I have no control over their drinking or using. You would make sure I remembered that there is always a reason for an A to pick up a drink or a drug if they really want to bad enough - just like there is always a hand reaching out to help them STOP if they really want to bad enough.
There are strong willed personalities, soft-spoken, mild mannered, those who have never spoke a curse word and those of us who have made up new curse words; some who have had alcoholism in their lives since the day they were born, some married into it, some never experienced any until their children started to suffer with addictions - We are all different, yet all the same - we are hurt by someone's choice to abuse alcohol or drugs. And we did nothing to cause that abuse.
Please, Please, Diva, re-read your own post - take comfort in the reassurances you have given others - his choices, his relapses, his drinking is not about you, not your fault - repeat it - It's not your fault.
Wishing you Serenity, Joy & Peace, Rita
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No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
Diva the traits that you describe yourself as having are probably what attracted him to you in the first place. It is the strong will and stubbornness that will get you through this. At the moment you are feeling vulnerable and worried for his safety. Until he walks through that door nothing will make you feel otherwise. I know your heart is ripping out, sing to the rafters some of that beautiful opera music and let the emotion out. I am thinking of you and sending strength your way. LUv Leo xxx
I was recently watching some talk show about overweight people sabatoging themselves. There were several different people talking. One in particular said she had lost her weight, gotmarried and was very happy. Then she gained it all back again. The reason was that she subconsciously would sabatoge her happiness. Internally, she didn't think she deserved to be happy so she did something (gained wt.) to make herself miserable again without really realizing why. I see this in alcoholism a lot and it may be one of the reasons your A does what he does.
You HAVE to know it certainly isn't you!! Someone that is determined to be sober IS. Nothing and no one can MAKE them drink. That's just a huge load of s**t. They need an excuse, and someone or some thing to blame. Otherwise, God forbid THEY would be responsible for their own actions. It's way easier then saying "I have no self control and I'm weak".
The term "Gentleman's vacation" brought up a memory. It reminded me of my husband saying he was "having a cocktail". In reality he was downing a pint of vodka. They seem to twist reality in to whatever term suits them and makes it sound less severe then what it is. I bet he never calls it a "drunken friggin binge" eh?
As strong as we think we are these things still rock our world. I can't say that if my husband started drinking again that I wouldn't be crushed, I would. I know all the rules and tools but after what we've been through, to see it return would be devistating.... And I consider myself pretty damn tough too. I'm sure I'd survive it but it would sooooo suck. I too could tell myself the 3 C's, and I honestly believe them to be true. But that doesn't mean we can have no feelings of sadness. Be sad if you need to, but you sure as heck aren't responsible. Got it girl??
((((hugs)))) Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
I can add nothing to what you have said yourself and the others have said. You absolutely, positively do NOT cause him to drink. That is utter BS!!!
They will blame any thing that will let them as to why they do anything. Don't buy into the lie. And don't you change nuffin about you for anybody else. I love ya just the way you are!!!
No no and no. You are not responsible, be kind to yourself. I know the feeling of wondering if something we said or did helped trigger the drinking, but there will be that stress in any relationship with or without an A. Truth is, the A will try to blame and rationalize any drinking on someone or something outside himself. He is the one who has to control it and learn better ways of coping regardless of what happens around him. you are not to blame. don't listen to that or beat yourself up for a minute - that is what the disease wants us to do pull us in and lose our esteem.
Thanks to each of you for your kind and helpful replies. I know I didn't cause his drinking. I know he drinks because it is Thursday or the sun is shining or whatever reason seems good enough at the time. In my heart I know this. I want to help him, and I know I cannot. I can only help me. I had a pleasant time while he was gone. I bummed around all the local thrift stores, and got myself a couple of treasures. Had lunch out by myself, and came home and took the dog for a walk. There was a time when I would have been so mired in anger and self-pity that I would have spent all the time crying. That time is GONE! One of you said you enjoy the times when your A is off on a binge. At one time I would be unable to imagine that. Today I had a GOOD TIME! Was rather sorry to see him reel back in the door!! LOL!!
He left his car in the HEB parking lot about two blocks away...haven't asked and do not care why; wandered the two blocks home drunk on his feet guzzling from a bottle of gin all the way. Walked in the door and told me he would leave - just let him cool off. Then proceded to pass out on a chair in the living room. He left the bottle of gin on the grass outside the front door.
You know, I have just about decided there is nothing any more useless than a damned drunk!
Hanging in here,
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
NO!!!! Dear absolutely NOT. I remember when my guy relapsed and left again. I thought maybe it was my lifestyle that did it.
When I saw him sober, he said nothing I could do would make him use or not make him use.
We do not put a needle in their arm or a funnel down their throat.
really Diva it has nothing to do with you. i know you know that, but when we are upset and in the midst of the horrible time, we need to remind each other of things.
I have noticed as they get older, it is harder for them to not use. I am not quite sure what makes it seem like that. Well maybe it is becuz they have just that much more brain damage. Though yours, I remember what, a year ago when he did this?
Remembering too, when they pick it up again, they are right where they were the last time they used.
Can he make you do anything? Ok gotta tease ya here, can anyone get you to do anything? lol
I love cheesecake, I mean good stuff, it can put me in the hospital. NO ONE could make me eat it. Even if they smeared it on my face!!!
People who use, when they have decided to stop, stop becuz they would rather be straight than hi or low. Also becuz they never want to be sick like that again. They KNOW they cannot control it if they use.
I got sooo sick from real ice cream once I wanted to die. ug.
Needless to say I have developed the best soy cream cheese cheese cake ever!!! lol
Now what can you do for you??? hmmmm tapping the side of my head with my right index finger....LIGHT BULB goes off. PUPPY!!! Perfect for filling up that crappy void in your gut.
hug yourself for me. It really will help, even if only tiny tiny bits, to do things you enjoy. Do you have art Galleries there, sorry for my ignorance, nothing to me is better than looking and feeling nice art.
I love Monet. Glad you are keeping us posted. love,debilyn
Oh Diva, this is a tough time! Tonight Im watching Great Performances, and its on Beverly Sills. Another Diva I'm sitting here and thinking about your post, which I read earlier today. You seem to be feeling strength despite your disappointment knowing that youll be OK regardless. That is such success! Do you know that? The promise of AlAnon is that I can be happy and joyful regardless of anothers actions. But I also remember thinking I had caused my dad to drink on any specific night. I had a calendar with blocks for each day of the month in which I would record (in code in case it were seen by someone else) whatever happened that day, or how I had spoken. On the nights he was drunk, I would study the previous days entries . I never broke the code. What a relief it was to hear the 3Cs in my first Al-Anon meeting. Relief initially, but it also meant there was not one thing I could do to keep him (or by then, my husband) from drinking. Now there was something to ponder. I join our friends in wishing you serenity during this challenging time. Jill
A long time ago I used to think maybe I was one reason why my A would drink. 'Till I learned better. Then when he'd tell me he drank because of something I said or did, I'd tell him that I didn't mean to make him drink - I meant to make him go jogging. And I also told him that if I was powerful enough to make him drink, then I ought to be powerful enough to make him stop. After a while, he quit using me for his excuse. And also, when may A drank, he lied like a champ to anyone about anything. Forget about how the truth comes out when they drink! This man came up with such big lies while drunk and for no reason - he'd just sit there and come up with some huge concocted story about himself, his life, me, etc. to anyone who'd listen. They lie, drunk or sober.......jaja
I'm sorry he relapsed. Of course you are angry and upset. Who wouldn't be??
BUT................you KNOW it's NOT about you dear one.
You divorced him and he's still there honey............Now,THAT is about you!!! You're a strong and magnificent lady and we all LOVE you for it. He obviously does too.
My A could find all manner of excuses to drink and all manner of excuses to justify it. None of them had anything to do with me....though to listen to his BS you'd think I had the power of God almighty. Sadly,I haven't. None of us have.
Well, Diva, I am glad he's back and safe, at least for the time being. And to reiterate, you know damn good and well that you are not the cause of his drinking, so let that be the end of that train of thought.
