The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I think that is the wrong title, because this post is about ways to NOT have an addicted kid. Of course it in not foolproof, but each person that has tried it has been succesful with it.
I can't take credit for it since my parents invented it, my siblings and I just followed their training that we knew worked.
My parents are both scientists in the medical field so they knew more than most the dangers of addictive substances. What they did was start a scrapbook from the LOCAL paper about personal stories of drug, alcohol, and nicotine abuse and deaths which really hit home for us. Whenever they had a friend with an addicted child they spoke openly about it to us about the pain the parents went through. They had us come to the TV to see late stage addicts and how they looked. The pointed to homeless people and let us know that MOST of those people had some sort of addiction and that is how they ended up homeless, with no family to help them. They told me that most healthy people who lose a job or have some type of financial emergency have a network or family and friends that help them get back on their feet. If they are freindless and end up on the street they usually have worn out their welcome with friends and family due to addiction. This is not to debate the plight of the homeless, this is just sharing how my parents successfully kept us (ALL FIVE OF US) away from drugs, alcohol, and nicotine in the turbulent 60's when they were everywhere. To this day, none of the five of us drink alcohol, ever do any drugs, or smoke.
This was not done at some certain age, but this education program went on as long as I can remember, since early childhood. We OPENLY talked as a family at the dinner table many times about how drugs and alcohol ruined people's lives in every way.
Also, my parents had very very very very very strict standards for conduct. Cursing was unheard of in our family, and we were not permitted to treat each other with any disrespect. This was done with a lot of love so we did not resent this strictness. My parents did not allow ANYONE to ever smoke or drink in their home, not even their closest family members who traveled long distances to visit. There was no drinking in my extended family, but some of them smoked. My parents had a zero tolerance attitude towards ANY drug, smoking was considered as horrible as drinking or taking drugs. The had a suspicious view of prescription drugs (we all know now they were horribly overprescribed in the 60's and many celebreties died from prescription drug abuse). and exercised and ate very healthy to take care of their health and stay away from prescriptiong drugs also.
Well, with this kind of education and training when any of us where offered drugs or alcohol we would see a flashback toa future of homelessness and ill health, it never seemed the slightest bit cool or grownup.
It worked.
So we all tried it with our children with much the same success. Sadly I am the only one with an alcoholic mate so it was tougher for me but I still did it. I found out that one of my children tried a cigarette and I had like twin cows, LOL. This child later told me that I raised such a fuss about the cigarette that they did not DARE try anything stronger, they thought I would have a heart attack and die! LOL! I don't mean a screaming session either, I had a serious series of talks with that child about trust and mature behavior and following the law. I told them that if I ever found out about it again that I would call the newspaper and tell them to run a story about the place that was selling cigarettes to minors, and also inform the police. Yeah, I know the police don't really care about smoking, I see elemtary school age children smoking at the bus stops and the cops drive right by, sigh, but still, the squeky wheel gets the grease, if I raise a big enough fuss then that place might get in some trouble since it WAS illegal. I told my child that I would write an editorial in the paper citing the exact law so people would do something about it.
Yeah, I raised a ruckus alright, over ONE cigarette at age 14. I also siked my parents on them, LOL.
Was one cigarette really that big of a deal in the long run? No...but it was the beginning and I knew that. It was teh beginning of thumbing their nose at the law, the beginning of making bad choices for themselves, the beginning of lying and losing trust, and the beginning of running with the "trouble" crowd.
So, if I raised the roof about taking that one step on the wrong road, hopefull they would turn back from it. Once again, I don't mean raise the roof in abusive speech, screaming, nagging, tears, or anything else kids tune out, but real serious discussion, holding them accountable.
It worked, and later that child joked that they told their friends about what a fuss I raised about that one cigarette and how that scared them into being afraid of what I was capable of if they dared to do more, they did not want to find out, so they did not.
This does not work if you all of sudden come down hard on them, you have to build up a lifetime of LOVING discipline with yoru children so they RESPECT you. You have to have a real personal relationship with them that they will not want to risk losing by lying to you and disappointing you.
I told my children that there are some serious laws in this country about underage drinking and that if I ever found out that they drank not only would they face my serious wrath (I have overheard my children tell their friends they don't dare cross me and break rules since I am "scary", LOL) but that I would call the police and hunt down who gave it to them and prosecute them to the letter of the law, to the point of once again writign editorials and contacting the news agencies and MAD.
This was a detterent. I never beat them, threatened them with physical or emotional violence, and never emotionally abused them, but managed to control their behavior.
Now my children are all grown and over 21 and the legal age, so if they drink that is their business. But if they turn into alcholics and need help I WILL help them and like DIVA would go the ends of the earth to help them in anyway I can. But this would not mean me letting them move back in with me so they can use with no repurcussions. I don't allow any drug use in my home, not even smoking or drinking in moderation, I cant' tolerate it. So I doubt a using addict would ever want to live with me. I would bail an adult child out of trouble if I could but only on condition they go into rehab and pay me back somehow, even in labor when they are well. I would help, but keep them responsible and give them their dignity as an adult to be responsible in some way.
I guess the best thing is prevention, since alcholism is SO complicated.
My heart goes out to all those with addicted adult children who I know have done their absolute best and were wonderful parents. I know a lot of people who raised their kids like I did, and their kids still turned into addicts and alcholics. There are no gaurentees and our world is getting harder and harder to deal with. Kids today have pressures and pain that I and my now adult children never had to deal with.
This is just a sharing of ESH that worked for my parents and for me for those with young children who did not have successful parenting modeled for them. Just sharing the successful methods I learned from my parents.
LOL, one final thought. When I was little my mom used to always say that if anything happened to us, if we ever tried drugs or alcohol, she would be "screaming and crying in the street" envisioning that made me giggle as a kid, a mom having a tantrum, but as I got older I realized what she meant. She was teaching me, even at a young age, the pain that parents go through when kids make bad choices. It helped me internalize that and as I grew up part of what made me make good decions is knowing how my parent's heart would truly break if I took a bad turn. That is a good thing to know when you are YOUNG and not have to experience it to understand it.
I am glad that your childrearing choices have worked, so far, for you. I have used some of the same tactics - a reasoned strictness - and so far, with my teens, things are good.
However, I wonder how I would feel, reading this post, if I DID have addicted children? The reality is, of course that we all do some things right and some wrong - I don't know if it's useful to provide yet another club for these parents to beat themselves with.
I agree with Lin. Seem that your post implies that we have control over whether our children take that first drink. Who is to monitor them in college, or are we all suppose to place the fear of God in our kids that that fear will reach into their adulthood? I'm a little frustrated that your post implies that a particular method of raising children will prevent someone from becoming an A. I'm sure post is meant to offer help, but IMHO those who visit this board that already have A-children it's another way to say, "You could have prevented this." Let us all not for get the three C's
I don't have a crystal ball, but I believe that one of my children has all the traits of Aism. Believe me this is not a road I want to travel or have her travel. She knows about this disease, alanon, consequences etc. She is informed. It will be her choice to take the first drink or not at some point in her life. And even if she doesn't I believe she will be a "dry" A. At 10 she asked me "Can you be an Alcoholic and not drink?" I think she knows too. It's a scary thing.
I'm am glad for you, seriously happy that you have not had to go thru what many are going thru with A children. I caution you though, this disease is only one drink away for any A -- no matter what the age.
Since I have have 2 addicted children. I hope u can answer 2 questions for me.
1. As I work my program concerning my children, does this mean I no longer can use the 3 c's? It seems to me that what I read between your lines, my parenting skills or lack of are the cause.
2. My daughter's addiction more than likely started after a young man crossed the center line and hit her car head on. Durring her recovery of 12 surgeries in 18 months she was on morphine, metadone and diladid for over 2 years for pain control. Would a scrapbook have helped that?
I am glad these things u mention have worked well for you but I think my childrens addiction has way more to do with the fact that my mother, father, uncle, brother, and father in law were all alcohlics....
Well, I have to agree that we all need to educate our children, but you know our young people are invincible. Nobody took their first drink or hit of any drug intending to become addicted.
I think we have to recognize that there are as many causes for addiction as their are addicts. As similar as the stories are, each addict is unique in his feelings and inner make-up, and no two people, even addicts, will react to the exact same situation in the exact same way. For example, your children did well with this approach. I'm glad that they did. But another child may simply feel too much pressure, and turn to something else anyway.
We also have to acknowledge the many addicts out there who are not addicted to chemicals, but gambling, shopping, sex, pornography, and the list goes on and on. These things can be just as destructive as putting harmful substances into your body. So how do you prevent your child from growing up and being addicted to shopping? Porn? You certainly can't make a scrapbook of that!
We would all like to think there is a solution, but there really isn't. My two daughters attend an AA potluck with us once a month, they listen to the speaker stories, they participate in the drug prevention programs at school. I hope they are taking something away from all of that, and I hope they carry it with them forever. But in the end, it's a crapshoot, so I just have to pray that it doesn't happen to them.
I have read this thread with interest. The author makes good points as do the respondents. But there is one baffling statement...A 10-year-old destined to be a "dry drunk" if she does not drink???? I am confused about how one can possibly make an assessment like that. Qualifications? I am a simple soul. Please explain.
Diva *rolling eyes and wondering*
Oh yes, and another point. Once a child reaches college age, his choices are his. That's true. But not all kids go to college to drink. Maybe a few early lessons in the pitfalls of peer pressure.....And, strange as it may seem, some kids really do not have any desire to get themselves wasted.
Involving ourselves in discussions such as this one is not a method of banging any parent over the head. It is an honest exchange of ideas, and should be as welcome as any other topic on addiction.
-- Edited by Diva at 09:54, 2007-04-26
__________________
"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Imagine a child with all the personality of your A at 10 yrs old. Only without the alcohol. I think I put it pretty simply. Even she reconginzes things within herself -- on her own -- not by me-- that are like the A in her life. The day she came to me and asked me that, I was blown away. I have to say I really hadn't given much thought to if my children would grow up to be A's until then.
I am not baffled by this at all. Aism is rampent in the family. Many many A's in AA will tell you they knew from an early age. The point was that even when you remove alcohol from an A they are still an A...they have all the Aisms. I see all those ism's in my daughter and I fear for her -- have given her information, tools, program etc...but it will someday become her choice to pick up that first drink or not. The post implies that if I provide a scrap book of all the hell that is involved with drinking then she wont drink. She doesn't need a scrap book, she's got too many examples in the family. It will still be her choice to drink or not drink.
Sorry Luna. You know I mean no offense, but I think it is a loooong stretch to put a 10-year-old kid in the "dry drunk" category.
I don't know about scrapbooks. I am making no point of any "tried-and-true" methods of avoidance. And, yep, my mom used to tell me the same thing. I was 10 years old when I finally discovered that my eyes won't stick like that.
Diva
-- Edited by Diva at 10:21, 2007-04-26
__________________
"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Diva -- I used college as an example. Could be any time that a child has reached that age of independence -- where the parent can't say "in my house you'll follow my rules."
I disagree that this line of disscussion has the positive impact that was indended by Alanonner. As with any post I don't have to agree, just as you don't have to agree with me. In light of the pain I feel that this post can cause, I replied. I didn't slam Alannoner or imply that this post doesn't belong here. I disagree with it as do some others.
If you'd like to discuss this futher please PM me.
I believe Alanoner was simply saying what worked for her parents (and stated so more then once). It was not meant to be judged or taken any other way then what it was, A family's story and it's success. Having 5 children that don't do drugs, drink or smoke is commendable indeed.
If someone here chooses to beat themselves up because they don't live that way, that's their choice. I do not live that that way. I choose to appreciate any member's ESH of methods that have worked.
Not one time was it said "This is what YOU must do". I didn't see "This is the ONLY way". I DID see "Just sharing the successful methods I learned from my parents." And "My heart goes out to all those with addicted adult children who I know have done their absolute best and were wonderful parents". It does not say "this is how you prevent it" The title itself says "One way to deal with addict kids"..ONE.
IMO, a parent that has an addict child carries some degree of guilt. They shouldn't, but do. Again, IMO..That is why someone would beat themselves up over the original post, by taking on more unecessary guilt that isn't theirs.
Take what you like and leave the rest... Christy
__________________
If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
What I always find odd about people in Alanon who say there is NO Aism in their family of origin is that they mean that their parents AVOIDED alcohol at all costs. I have heard this version of family life many times and I always think to myself " What happened in your parents lives that they were so terrified of alcohol they took abstinence to such an extreme? Seems to me that they must have been touched by the FAMILY disease of alcoholism. Passing along to their children the isms without the alcohol." There are different forms of dysfunction in families. I wouldn't venture to say that all kinds and levels of dysfunctions are caused by alcoholism. I would like to say that but then I would be looked at as extreme or fanatic. I have been learning that avoidence of the disease does not make it disappear, nor does extreme fear or education. I have to keep my love and my sense of humor when it comes to this disease. I have no control over wether or not my kids have bipolar disorder or alcoholism. I can provide them with the best enviroment I can and say a prayer. I was adopted and I am a big believer that nurture plays a bigger role than nature. But nature, disease, is a factor also. I do not know if my birth mother died at 34 of breast cancer. I never will know what diseases run in my family. That is a blessing. I don't know therefore I can't fear. As I said I don't know the future all I have is today and I have the ability to do what is the best thing for today. I had a run in with a "friend" last night who thinks she knows what is best for me and my kids. She justified her actions till she was blue in the face. But, she hurt my daughter with her thoughtlessness or her idea that she knows what is best. People that are that "helpful" as far as raising other people's children from afar have some serious issues with their own abilities and needing to feel superior as a parent. I would never consider that how I am raising my kids is the best way. Neither do I consider other's the right way. But as I have been taught to do, I will take what I like and leave the rest. Seems this is a very touchy subject!
Here's food for thought: My father--yes, THAT ONE!--took me with him on ER shifts. And EVERY TIME there was a drunken driving incedent he would say "See there, Sarah? That [fill in gender here] is [fill in age here] and they're gonna have to [fill in life time consequence here--live their life in a wheel chair, be hooked up to a ventilator, et cetera]."
I am one of these people who never had to deal with alcoholism or any other addiction in my family of origin. Did that mean my parents survived some disatrous ordeal that terrified them, thus totally abstained? Of course not. It means that no one in my family went from a couple of social drinks to totally wasted. No one's personality changed after a beer; no one had an addiction disorder. That's just the way it was. Not every family has drunk skeletons rattling around in the closet. Further, not every family is in denial either.
Diva
__________________
"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
My family either Diva. I was the one that introduced alcoholism in to my family by marrying one. My Mom and Dad were the type that had a glass of champaigne on New Year's Eve. Alcohol just wasn't around our house. They must have had their reasons but past abuse in the family wasn't one of them.
My Grandparents were both raised Amish. I'm not saying that there may not be Amish alcoholics somewhere but Amish+alcoholic just doesn't look right in the same sentence.
Christy
__________________
If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Thank you Christy and Diva for understanding the purpose of my post.
It was merely sharing ESH that is all. What worked for my parents and for me.
I made sure to state that this is a different world than the one I and my children grew up in, and I also stated that I know wonderful people who raised their kids EXACTLY like I did and their children still became addicts.
There are no guarentees.
And like Diva and Christy there truly is no alcholism or addiction in my entire family of origin. I was the one who introduced alcholism into my family by marrying one also.
My BIL drinks in extreme moderation (ONE cold beer with his dinner), so I am not saying that no one in my entire extended family drinks, I am saying there is no alcoholism or addiction.
And when I say there is no addiction in my family I mean my ENTIRE extended family, which consists mostly of medical professionals, many doctors, but most are medical researchers. Oh, and they are from another country in Europe which statistically has significantly fewer alcoholics than we do in this country.
Oh I did not say my family is perfect, LOL, but they are not addicts or alcholics.
Is that really so hard to believe? That would be very sad to be so cynical to think ALL familes are sick and dysfunctional and full of secret addicts with all kinds of skeletons in the closet.
Oh and one more thing...
When a child reaches the age of adulthood you can most certainly STILL say this is my house and you will follow my rules and stick to it. When I turned 18, still in high school, my parents sat down with me and had a talk with me. They told me that the ONLY thing that had changed was that I could now move out if I wanted to, LOL, that they were still Mom and Dad, they still made the rules, and if I wanted PERMISSION to continue to still live with them I had to respect their rules.
WOW, where they smart, they let me know it was a priveledge to live with them and have them support me as an adult. I never took it for granted either, I knew what a kindness it was.
I did the same with my children, when they each turned 18, also still in high school, I sat down with them and said pretty much word per word what my parents told me. And it had a similar effect.
Well, I added some stuff, LOL.
I told them that I would not allow them to treat OUR family home as a "free motel" that we continued to be a family with me as the Mom and one calling the shots and making the rules, and if they did not like my rules now that they were adults they GET TO MOVE OUT, YAY!!! LOL!
If you allow your children to treat your family home as a free motel when they reach adulthood, if they get to break any rules and drink or smoke or use and bring their GF or BF home to sleep over (ick) then you will likely never be rid of them and will enable them living an unhealthy lifestyle. You will emotionally cripple them and teach them that SOMEONE out there will support their childish lifestyle. Adults make their own way and pay their own bills, they don't live off their parents. Most young people can't afford to make it on their own now, so they can get a roomate and share expenses. Remember that concept from the old days? LOL...when most adults WERE adults and lived like adults?
Indeed who would want to leave a free motel with an inkeeper who bankrolls most of your extra needs and cooks for you? LOL.
My parents taught me very subtle ways to make it in your childs best interest to really grow up and be independent. Adult children get tired of being treated like children and resolve to make their own way in the world. But they are not rushed, they can take time to grow up enough to do it on their own. In the meantime there are constant reminders that they need to grow up, like bedtimes enforced at age 18, LOL.
I was thinking about the young girl and the dry drunk thing.
Maybe this is related, maybe not, but I have a sister who seems to always be looking for this "magic bullet" that will make her life perfect. As I was thinking about the way she seems so flghtly, it occurred to me that this is an addictive behavior. Now she has never been much of a drinker, and to my knowledge may have only briefly flirted with pot, but I don't know for sure. But as I think about her life, I think she definitely has the ISMS, and I think I about a gentleman in my H's AA group who introduces himself as an alcoholic with a problem named (inserts his own name here) I think it serves as a great reminder that we are often our own problem, as I see my sister and her search for this magic bullet as her own problem. I think so many times that we just need to get out of our damn way.
LOL! whoa! does thou protest too much? We all are called to love our children in our own special way as our families (perfect or not) love us. I know that my perception of my upbringing is different from that of my parents and grandparents. I also know that my perseption changes as I grow. I didn't mean to offend anyone with my post as I am sure you did not intend to offend anyone with yours. I apperciate the opportunity you have given me to think about these issues in a different light.
Once again....listen now...no one in the generations of my family with whom I am familiar was ever addicted to alcohol or drugs. This happens. Face it; some of us actually do come from a place of relative peace and harmony where we were untouched by the ravages of addiction.
Does it make you happy to think that, secretly, everyone's life and family are as miserable as yours, and that unspeakable horror must have taken place to cause total abstinence in a family? Does it give you pleasure to toss the word, "denial" around, all the while enveloped by a cloud of misunderstanding of the meaning? Does it bring you joy to contemplate that one might, "protest too much" while continuing to deny the very existence of the spectres of evil with which one refuses to deal, but which surely haunt their closets, lashing out with forked tongues attempting to break down the barriers of unspoken denial?
The walls of tunnel vision and small-mindedness, like those of Jericho, must come crashing down before we can ever begin to truly "get it."
Diva
__________________
"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
geeezzzzzzzzzzzzz! Diva, What difference does it make? Consider yourself lucky. You could be me...Just about every contributing relative of mine has an alcoholic gene somewhere...I think it would be better to try all these cures on someone from my gene pool, rather than with one that can't trace an alcoholic in it..especially before we call them tried and true. Once again I have to say...If you haven't walked the mile ...you absolutely can't have a clue!
Hi greta. You are so right! It really doesn't matter. It is just that I sometimes get annoyed at the lack of good sense displayed. And you are right again. I have no clue what so many people here have gome through. I admit that. Lucky? Yep, I think I probably am.
Best to you and yours,
Diva
__________________
"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
First I think we must remember that there was a time when addictions and alcoholism were "hidden" away and just not spoken about, just like spousal abuse and pregnancy before marriage.....remember how some young girls went away to "visit" relatives for about 9 months? So it would be hard to say for certain there were no addictions of any sort in a family.
I think educating children about the dangers; legal, physical, emotional and mental, are helpful in deteroring abuse/use. But I also believe making sure the children know they are unconditionally loved, taught self respect and keeping their self esteem at high levels is a major help. My oldest son is 22, there is alcoholism on both side of his family, not alot.....but from my experience one A is more than enough, lol. Anyways, I made sure he knew where I stood about drinking and drugs, educated him, etc. But I was also not naive enough to believe that there was not a chance he still would not try drinking, so I made sure to explain to him that "if" he ever chose to drink that he should not get into a car with someone who had been drinking (this applied to even if he chose not to drink of course). He was told that although there would be consequences for his actions, he was to call home for a safe ride and the situation would be dealt with in the morning. I did not want him so afraid that he would not call home for help in fear of what I would do to him. For us this worked. He did not drink before he was 21 and even now will only occassionaly have a beer. And he has never used any drugs.....he even went as far as to stop seeing friends that started using or who do nothing but drink.
I think the only think I don't agree with is stereo-typing addicts and A's. (I actually hate stereo-typing of any sort) Although there may be a high percentage of homeless people that are A/addicts, what about the doctor, lawyer, business man? I think there are probably more "functioning" A/addicts than homeless ones.
Alanoner did state that it was "in the turbulent 60's" when her parents used this method and that she and her siblings used it with their children. I didn't see her say that this was a tried and true method, if anything she posted that it was "not foolproof" .Some people choose not to drink simply because they do not like the effects of it, I am one of these people and have always been. I made that decision well before ever having had to deal with an alcoholic. I don't think the decision not drink is soley based on a family experience with alcoholism.
In the end, we know our families the best, so we can take bits and pieces from what each of us shares and customize a plan that will work for our own families. The parts we don't like, we can just leave behind for someone else to use, lol.
And I'm still wondering why there wasn't a picture of Alanoner's future husband in the scrapbook?
"Stay away from...um, homeless, crazy alcoholics on the street, but you can marry and have children with this one!"... this thread is hillarious! thanks for the laughs guys.
WOW, sarcasm and cynacism...just oozes "recovery".
Anyway, I won't respond in kind...
The point of the scrapbook was teaching US to stay away from alcohol, drugs, and cigarettes and it worked. Perhaps I should mention the fact that my mom was a pharmacist...a scientist, well acquainted with what drugs, and cigarettes do to people. How is that funny again? How it those things hurt so many people and my mom found a way to keep us from them?
My Mom is not all powerful and we didn't live on our own private island so naturally we came in contact with people who had drug and alcohol problems and smoked. She did NOT teach us we were better than those people or that we should shun them, she only taught us that that would be our fate if we did not avoid drugs and usually the results were not that good. I missed the humor in this too...perhaps you could point it out to me?
Who said I married and had kids with an alcoholic?
SIGH! Usually when you are determined to try and put someone down with sarcasm and cynacism, commen sense go out the window.
Families are made up of all kinds of related people, uncles, grandma and grandpa, aunts, cousins, sometimes it takes several family members cooperating together to make a nice living...and children can be adopted...not all families are made up of a Mom. Dad, and biological children.
You totally missed the point, but glad you got a cheap laugh over the whole thing. Laughing is healthy,,, but maybe not that much when done at someone else's expense...especially when that person was trying to share ESH...in alanon...
Just trying to lighten things up a bit. I tend to find humor in much of life, sorry that I offended you in the process. If you knew me you would know that I meant no harm, I really thought it was funny and I was not being sarcastic. I mean wouldn't it be great if someone made us a scrapbook of pictures of people to avoid? "Avoid these people, do not become involved in a relationship and if you see one run far away in the opposite direction!"
As I responed to Diva's comments in her previous post, If you've never had an addicted child or adult child, I don't think you can say what you would do. This disease I would not wish on my worst enemy! How can you share your ESH, if you've not had a child with this horrible and baffling disease?
My son is in recovery, and that's where I support him......not in the disease. I understand how you raised your children and how your parents raised you. Sounds like great communication. We also communicated with our children about not drinking or using drugs. And they saw positive behavior modeled, yet our son became an addict. Never in our wildest dreams could we imagine this......It is very easy to say what you would or wouldn't do if you haven't been through it. I remember doing that when I was expecting our first child. We were in a restaurant, and there was an unruly toddler. Both my husband and I said, our child will never do that, or we as parents will never do that........Well we had to "eat" a lot of those words.
God has seen us through some really tough times......I know what worked for us..... And for that we are thankful to God. Please don't say what you would do, if you've never been there.
Oh for heaven's sake, this thread is going to turn into a catfight.
Alanoner, do you not think this phrase from your above post--"WOW, sarcasm and cynacism...just oozes "recovery"."- is sarcastic?
And please stop making judgements on other's recovery, it just isn't your place to do that. This is Alanon, and whether you like it or not, there is room for disagreement on this board. Even if that means some people will disagree with you.
If you knew me you would know that I meant no harm, I really thought it was funny and I was not being sarcastic. I mean wouldn't it be great if someone made us a scrapbook of pictures of people to avoid? "Avoid these people, do not become involved in a relationship and if you see one run far away in the opposite direction!" 