The material presented
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My husband has been sober now for about three weeks. I know this is very early, but he is doing really well. This week he started his out-patient rehab and he attends AA meetings every night.
Yesterday was a hectic day (as most of my days are). I worked all day, he didn't have rehab yesterday so he was home. As soon as I came home I changed and was headed out the door to my child's sports practice (I coach). I also attend college two nights a week and it just so happened that we had to call this practice because our usually day was not available. I was going to have to leave the practice early to run to my class because we were taking a test. The practice was to end at 8 p.m. and I needed to leave at 7. I asked him to come to the practice at 7 and help the team till 8. He started giving me crap because he had an AA meeting that started at 8 p.m. He then said that he would find a ride home for the kids (ages 13, 6 and 5) and my oldest could watch the younger ones for a half hour till I got home. I told him I do not like the idea of them walking into the house alone at 8 o'clock. I told him that yes, it is wonderful that he is taking control of the drinking, but that the kids should always be his priority. I told him that not everything is about him and that he should stop being so selfish. He knows how hard I work just to keep afloat with my classes, but I really don't think he cares at all. He said that his recovery is all about him and that that should come first. He ended up ending the practice 10 minutes early, dropping of the kids and ran to his meeting. He made a comment this morning about how someone asked him last night why he was late. I lost it on him. I don't even think that he finished his sentence. Was I wrong to think that everything should take a backseat to our kids?? His rehab is having my oldest child, me and him come in tonight for family counseling. We are supposed to go once a week with him. I don't know what to expect and my child so does not want to go (she is 13 of course). But maybe it will do us some good. Sorry for the rambling, but I needed to get this off my chest.
No actually I don't think you're wrong. I think one of the things that your husband is confronting is that the world didn't stop while he was MIA. I think he's also confronting the reality that his sobriety is a priority but so is his family. I'm loathe to believe that there is only 1 meeting per week in your vicinity, let alone in your whole state. If his sobriety is his priority, he needs to make it one. He needs to find a way to make sobriey a priority by finding meetings around the sports teams, around the classes, around the "stuff." Of course he'll raise hell, that's what alcholics do when they're faced with rules. But where I come from it's a case of "Do you honestly think that your family was just waiting on you to get sober, sir?"
He goes to meetings every night. I suggested that since he was home all day, maybe he could go to one in the afternoon instead. He said that those afternoon meetings don't work for him and that the evening ones are better for him (maybe because that is when he mostly drank?). I don't know.
In my situation, my A (who JUST started attending AA again) is, in truth, not capable of holding up his end of the deal. I can't expect him (without getting really angry and disappointed) to function as a partner or helpmeet. I can't expect him to have his priorities straight . . . I agree with you the kids SHOULD be top priority for both of you. But just for his sake, if he's not sober, he won't be helping you take care of them anyway. The self focus of early recovery is about as frustrating as the self centeredness of active drinking.
I'm not saying to baby him. I'm saying, as a fact, he's not up to par, and your expectations cause you pain. What 'should' be is not was 'is'. I'm speaking to your source of pain here. Tough stuff, but only you have control over how you are affected by his behavior.
This kind of situation is a breeding ground for resentments. I really need to stay aware and open to listen to my HP. I really struggle with the expectation thing, and I have a lot of work to do on myself regarding this. So I get where you are coming from . . . at least he's not actively using, and doing AA to the exclusion of giving you a hand when you need it, or taking care of the kids, hopefully will be a passing episode as he and you work your programs.
Yeah, he's still playing games. I'm sure if he really wanted it he could make it happen. No, Kim's right, you keep being you, keep up your end of the deal. As in, don't change the college courses, don't change the coaching scedule, don't play his game. He's gonna keep jerking your chain, and you're gonna have to stand your ground This is where YOUR sponsor, and YOUR program need to come in.
just sharing *my* Experience, *my* Strength, and *my* Hope for whatever it may be worth to you or to someone else:
All human beings (and a lot of other animals) want approval and want to feel that their lives are not out of control. So it's very natural to have the perspective: Who's right and who's wrong?
For me... just speaking for me working my Al-Anon program daily for 12 years ... when I find myself wondering whether I'm right or wrong, sooner or later, I return to what works for me: I try asking a different question because asking whether I'm right or wrong just never gets me anywhere but into my own insane reactions. As long as I stay in my insane state of mind and am reacting and wanting people to choose up sides and vote for me lol ... I spin my wheels and dig the rut deeper than I ever have when stuck in snow or sand in a car. lol
I have found a lot of help in working to discover other questions I can ask, other perspectives I can approach the situation from. One thing I have learned helps me when confused or uncertain is to take an inventory of the *situation* ... not of myself and certainly not an inventory of anyone else, but an inventory of the *situation*.
I hope you are leaning on the strength of the group by attending meetings for *you*. I hope you are reading Al-Anon literature daily, even if only 1 minute. I hope you have a sponsor. Those things have helped me a lot; don't know how I would have survived without them and without other support I worked to build for myself.
Actually, I haven't yet been to a f2f meeting yet. I just can't find the time. I know that is a horrible excuse, but there are a million AA meetings and not that many Alanon meetings in my area. I plan to attend soon as soon as this sport season is done (a couple more weeks). I started reading Getting Them Sober, a few minutes at a time. I really take the knowledge from you long time Alanon-ers, and I really enjoy your input. Thank you for your replies.
OF COURSE his program is first. He has a horrible disease. He is on a program of sobriety becuz he goes to these meetings and stays on his program.
"OH no sorry honey, don't go to chemo tonite, I need you to watch the kids."
It is VITAL to remember they not get out of the mode of going WHEN they need to go! If they not go once, then the disease gets a stronger hold on them.
It is a matter of life and death for him and his family. I tell ya I would do about anything to have my husband back on his program going EVERYDAY, twice a day if he needed to.
Yes his priority has to be his program. That is how he keeps "everything else" balanced. A's are usually very tunnel visioned. They have been so confused, so mixed up, ashamed wanting to use hating themselves for using and more. they finally have a base, a foundation, that is AA.
Pulling out from going on their routie is like taking one brick out of the foundation!
They have to keep on an even routine. They need to keep on that path, the same path. They need that security. We are not like them, we cannot think like them.
They are not spontanious, they do not like surprises. They have been so unsure for so long. They get great pride in themselves to go to their AA meetings. They have had self loathing for so long.
As you can tell I feel very strongly about this. I have seen this since I was 17. Thank you HP it was not my family but my most treasured loved ones and him. I also grew up in the 50's and up, so believe me I have seen who makes it and who does not.
My A's best friend was a counselor for Serenity Lane, he slipped.
HE is dead from aism now, slipped, slipped again stopped meetings, maybe was a bit not honest then down down down the pit he went.
He went until he was in the latter stages and could not ever climb out anymore. Alcohol is horrible on the body. Eats away brain tissue until they are wet brained or alcoholic demented.
It is not JUST a disease it is KILLING them. miss a meeting NO WAY. there is no changing the time, there is no not tonight honey.
It is frustrating for us until we can really "BELIEVE" it is a disease that is murdering our loved ones.They it is oh gads go, can I get you there? Who can I call to help the kids? I am sure other parents would help.
You are an excellent mom and a hard worker, however we cannot depend on an A. Be happy for what they can give. I know it sounds selfish, but they are sick and we can only control us.
I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you posted ... the original post and this recent reply. I'm glad you have AA meetings in your area; currently, in this area where I am, AA meetings are my only face-to-face meetings, soI belive I understand the situation you describe for where you are .... but hey! I could be wrong! lol
Anyway, I suggest going to AA ... helped me for a lot of reasons.
Also, I'm glad you are reading. Boy! you are (in my opinion) starting to work your program and I know that working my program has changed my life for the better.
I so so want to encourage anyone "willing" to work the Al-Anon program. When I came to Al-Anon, biggest difference from any other family I'd ever been in, any other group I'd ever been in: I no longer had to try and fail at being perfect, at being the fastest, at being the leader, at being the fixer, at being the one who gave up me and soothed my anxieties and my fear and my fury by focusing on others. I got to start a new way of life. The Alanoners and people in AA where I used to live were in strong face to face groups that made it easier for me to work my program.
I am in a time now when I have to make as many meetings as I can. The local AA meetings where I live and the online Al-Anon meetings here at Miracles in Progress are my lifelines right now even though I have lots and lots of support. This is a time that is so challenging for me that I am just having to rededicate myself to working my program as diligently as I did in the very beginning. Please anyone reading this ... it's hard for me to ask for help :) ... please just send me a thought if you see my name and recall that I am in a time when I need extra help.
sash, i hope to see you in the chat room sometime ... especially at our Al-Anon meetings there ... see the links that say "SCHEDULE" ... chat room will be closed for several hours on 12th & 13th of April EASTERN time US.
The Al-Anon online meeting here is officially recognized as an Al-Anon Family Group (a big deal in case you don't know to get that recognition :) so it indicates something). Also, for whatever my opinion counts, I've found the Al-Anon meetings here very good for me.
I give you (and all others reading) my personal invitation to come join us for a meeting. As we say in Al-Anon, you may not like all of us, but we believe you will come to love us in the special way that we already love you if you just show up at a meeting. :) :) :)
Take good care; keep on working your program; you're sooooo worth it!
NO he is not playing games, he is on a program. A program has certain things that have to go a certain way or he is OFF his program.
Also they cannot just go to another meeting for another reason. When they go, it is like a support group. They get to know each other, depend on each other. They care if you are there, really care.
He needs that stability. In time he may be able to branch out.But.. have you guys noticed when you go to a class or something you go to regularly, you will sit in the same place?
It is your "comfort" zone. A's need that comfort zone.
Right now he is feeling damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If I were you, I would be ironing this out quickly. He is ill and is in recovery, that means he has a wound that will always be open. They are never cured, never healed.
Being in recovery is a program to keep that wound from getting any worse. It is sorta in remission. As remember if they relapse they are right back where they were when they started on the program....
Off my feedbox now, I don't think there are soap boxes anymore...
At 3 weeks, if the program is not #1 then he isn't going to be around for #2, #3, #4 etc.
Do what you must, but if you are testing him by forcing him to choose between AA and family, you may not like the answer regardless of which way it goes. Best to not test.
Gosh debilyn, don't sugar-coat it -- tell me how you really feel! Just kidding. A lot of what you said really makes sense.
Thank all of you that replied. I guess I'm just new at this and my resentments are still fresh. A big problem is I don't really have any support. I've been super-mom for so long without having to rely on anyone, that I guess sometimes I need a little help (even though I hate to admit it).
Well, don't cut them too much slack. I'm gonna hazard a guess that the gentleman talked with a couple of people at the meeting about the situation. And I'm gonna hazard a guess that he was given some suggestions about how to take care of this. And I'm also gonna hazard a guess that he was told, in no uncertain terms, "They are YOUR children, right?" It is my experience that a program, be it 3 weeks, 3 months, 3 years, 30 years or 300 years long, involves honesty. And any time I hear a person say "I don't like those meetings..." I really hear (myself included in this group) "I can't be the center of attention and I can't be given the adoration and adulation I think I deserve." Quite frankly, if meetings were intended for the next star search, the quality of the film industry would have improved considerably. I say this individual is playing games because, when I was in his position, I sat in AA meetings all day long. Didn't matter who was there, what they said, where they came from, and what they looked like. I sat there, drank bad coffee, ate stale doughnuts, shook like a leaf in autumn, and looked like a bulldozer with an attitude problem had run me over. So that this gentleman is under the impression with all the time he has on his hands that he needs to go to a "Specific" meeting, rather than "as many meetings as my butt can allow" sends up a signal flare. Furthermore, I promise no one asked why he was late, he imagined that they asked. No body is considered late to an AA meeting till they say "amen" at the "our father." Lastly, I can promise that if he were going to "all the meetings my butt can allow"he would be feeling ALOT better and ALOT less guilty about coming in late to a meeting. So, until he gets honest, there is no program at work here. He is in "sodryety." He is "dry." This is my experience. Take what you like and leave the rest.
sash ... i believe on reflection , that i have seen you in chat room or at a meeting here. didn't recall that when i posted earlier.
what you just shared .. about having to go it alone and resentment ... i know a place you will feel right at home with those experiences. (ENORMOUS smile)
Debilyn gives such good examples (based on my experience ... and just my opinion) ... so I'm emboldened to say: sash, in my humble opinion, get out of his way and let him work his program while you work yours. If he had broken both legs, wouldn't you make it as easy for him as you could? And recovering from alcoholism is way harder work than getting around and being in pain from 2 broken legs. Just think about it maybe. And come meet with us and you can share about how hard it is for you and we'll help you and working your program will help you. But please, I was gentle before: this is serious business ... I humbly suggest taking a look at the whole situation and seeing if you can't find a way to stay out of his way and to work your program. You've already done hard work: living with an active alcoholic and going it alone. It may be that all you stand to lose by getting out of his way and coming to meetings is your resentment and exhaustion.
[Thinking to myself ... if anybody doesn't like this ... I will blame it all on Debilyn lol ... naaaah; I know how to be "frank" all by myself. lol]
Dusting sugar all over this post .... tempting you to taste it, sash. :)
I don't have much to add to this very intense post....Just wanted to give you a cyberhug. Sounds like you need one. Keep your chin up. In my opinion, us "Super-Moms" and "Super-Dads" have tough jobs and need all the support we can get from whomever is willing to give it. You are an amazing person. Keep working "YOUR" program and let your AH work his. All of the answer you are searching for will eventually fall into place. Take care.
I agree with Debilyn, if he is really, really trying to get sober, he'll have to put ALL his concentration on HIM. Hey, better than coming home to him passed out, right?? I understand the resentments etc., believe me, been there, done that, but my A has been sober since Sept., and if he needed ANYTHING to stay that way, I was happy to ablige (SP). Think of the long-term results, if he stays sober, in the long run, he will be there to give you a hand. If he doesn't put all of himself into it right now, and starts skipping meetings, well.... I believe it will be the hardest thing he has ever done in his life before. It's a horrible disease and is baffling and controlling. Don't expect instant cures, there will be bad days still, but try to just be grateful that he is working hard at overcoming the overpowering need, addiction. Good luck and prayers are being sent your way. Try reading as much as you can to learn and understand better. That helped me tremendously, I know you don't have much time in your life, but learning more and understanding where he is coming from will help all of you in the long-term, Glad you are here! This board really is a Miracle In Progress. You will meet wonderful, caring, loving, understanding people that can really relate to you. Love, TLC
A lot of good info given about the disease, priorities, programs - one thing I would like to add. PRESSURE & LAST MINUTE DETAILS.
I know that these can't always be avoided, but sometimes planning ahead can avoid this. Your AH likes the 8:00 meetings, so can you go to him, in a spirit of co-operation about working out a schedule for everyone - the kids' practice, your school, and his meetings. All of these are very important things in everyone's life. Maybe some advance planning can help things run a little smoother.
Get creative, maybe another parent on the sports team could watch the kids for an hour & your AH could pick them up after his meeting?
Sometimes it doesn't have to be an either or situation - it just has to be a little fancy scheduling.
Peace - hope you are able to make your f2f meeting soon, Rita
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No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
(((((((sash))))))) You and your A are so new at this. You're on your way, though, to a better life thru Al-Anon and I hope he is thru AA.
We're all different in the way we handle our recovery. I'd give him a chance and let him focus on his recovery however he wants to do it. In a short time, you'll know how serious he is about recovering.
In the meantime, it's not unusual for Al-Anons to have to live as single parents for a while. My AH has been dry for a long time (not sober as demonstrated by his behavior).
Toby in the book you're reading gives us the idea that we must make our own life with or without the help of the A.
What I'm trying to say is that I'd give him the chance to work his own program however he chooses. Like I said, if he's playing games, you'll know. I also suggest that you go to some open AA meetings - preferably not with him. Open AA really opened my eyes to what alcoholics go through. Keep up the good work.
I have to agree with many of the other posts. I don't think he is playing a game, I think he wants to be sober. My H sobered up in August, and the first 90 (90 in 90) days were TOUGH. I felt at first like he was even LESS available than he had been when he was drinking. Also, he drank mostly at home, and I headed to the gym every night while he pickled his brain. It was hard to get used to him suddenly having something else to do, and I mourned my "lost" time for myself. But, I kept telling myself it was for the greater good, and eventually I believed it. (i'm still not back on a gym schedule, but I believe it's my fault)
Eventually, he won't need as many meetings, and it could be entirely true that the afternoon meeting doesn't do much for him. I know my H's group recently added late night Fri and Sat meetings because that is when the youngest members were used to being out drinking. They needed a meeting, they were afraid they would eventually give into the craving.
Try to be supportive for him, try to carve out time for YOU.... Not always easy when you volunteer for the kids, I know. I decided a long time ago that no matter what hell or high water or 1500 boxes of Girl Scout Cookies are coming my way, I WILL have painted toenails year-round!!
Ugggg!! My nails are a mess!! Ha!! Thanks again for your posts. You guys really opened my eyes to a perspective I hadn't seen before. It is so good to be able to share my feelings here and get other opinions. My husband also drank at home especially in the evening. That could very well be the reason he likes the evening meetings better. We have been communicating in a way that we haven't done in a long time, which is good. I guess we'll just have to open up those communication lines a little more.
happy for you, sash ... and for your husband ... and for your children ... and for everyone touched by you and yours ... cause you are "willing" and in my experience, that is all I had to be when I began working my Alanon program.
Oh! it helps me soooo much in working my own program (having an extra hard month and uncertain future) right now to see soomebody else who's willing to share with me and i see how they're working their program and i get strength and hope and energy to keep on working my program for this moment, this hour, this day.
((((((((((sash))))))))))))
There's an Al-Anon meeting in the chat room today (Friday) at 9:00AM and 9:00PM EASTERN DAYLIGHT time US.
Again, I extend my personal invitation to you and to everyone else to make a meeting today. For those who've never attended an Al-Anon meeting, we don't call on anyone; you can come to observe and listen and probably feel better for it. You can arrive late and leave early if you need to, but there's standard material that is stated at the opening of each meeting and at the close of each meeting that I find helps me to hear over and over again. Some people will volunteer to share their ESH, which means their Experience, their Strength, and their Hope.
Gotta fly for now ... catch you another time, Sunny
I have to say I think everybody has something of value to say here. I agree that he has to make his sobriety his first priority - this is a fatal disease. I also agree that he is playing games - can't go to an afternoon meeting because he doesn't like them? Please. However, he has been playing games his whole life, he's not gonna stop in 3 weeks.
The statement I agree with most is that "Who is right?" is not the right question to be asking. "How can we make this work?" might be a good one. "Who can I call on for help in this stressful time?" might help. "Why do I feel the need to be supermom?" and "Why are everybody else's needs more important than mine?" are questions that you would probably rather NOT ask, but the answers might be illuminating.
When I first got into this program, it was because my husband came home from rehab and told me "They said you should go to alanon." Great, I thought, yet ANOTHER thing I've gotta do. For the first several months, it was just another chore, another thing I was doing for him - another way of taking care of someone else, rather than myself. Then, our marriage hit a major crisis, related to the way he was dealing with - I'm not going to call it sobriety, let's call it "not-drinking". Anyway, everything went to hell, and I realized that if I didn't start taking care of myself, the whole dam structure was gonna come down. After all, who'll take the kids to their activities if I'm in jail for shooting his lying cheating ass? So, I got into counselling, and I dove into alanon, and for the first time it became not something I was doing so I would look like I was being supportive of him, but because I needed it. Made all the difference.
Accept that the disease comes first. Always.Whether they are active or inactive. Over time if he remains sober he may be able to schedule his meetings better, but now it has to be first, or a relapse is possible.
I know what it is like to want to be "normal". Dad helps with kids. With an AH that may not be possible in the way you imagine.
Take care of you. That is important. Do not put all your eggs in his basket.
I don't feel that you are wrong. I am new to this forum but my husband has just returned from rehab and everything is all about HIM. Nothing and nobody else seems to matter. It seems like "TOO MUCH STRESS" will trigger him to drugs/alcohol. I have a car and so many times I have shared my car with him and he has gone off on his own thing. Although it has only been 2days since he's been home, he doesn't seem to understand that just because he has gone to rehab doesn't mean come back and take up like he was in the beginning. I don't feel you were wrong because they can't isolate themselves like there are not any responsibilities.
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(i'm still not back on a gym schedule, but I believe it's my fault) 