The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
the phrase, "dry drunk." Does this mean that the person no longer drinks, but is still a maybe controlling, maybe combative, maybe unfaithful, maybe violent jerk? The world is loaded with jerks, both alcoholic and not. Explain to me...I am open to listening to the definition. I am not trying to be "cute" here. I really do not understand.
Thanks,
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I have learned that drinking or using any drug is just one symptom of being an addict. Along with that are behaviors common to every addict.
When they stop using, that is all that they have done. They may still manipulate, lie, be selfish, obnoxious, blaming not able to own their own mistakes, no self worth. etc.
My A, whe in the program before surgery would say, ya Mike is not drinking, but that is all, just not drinking.
Unless they go on a "program of recovery" that they relearn to work on being careing, take things as they come, be honest, help others,own their own mistakes and on and on, as far as what other symptoms of aism they have, they still will have the same behaviors without the physical aspects of the disease.
Aism is or being an addict is an innate part of them. It is not learned or they drank too much and became A. They are born with it. Science has come sooo darn far in that.
There was this show on the Health Channel, they were talking about how they will be able to tell now if a baby in utero has a high chance or will develop certain diseases. Like now they can tell if we will develop breast cancer.
they were talking about how we will be able to decide if we want to abort if we know they will be autistic or have crohns or whatever, only examples.
they brought up addiction. Both agreed how it is a terrible disease that tears down so many people.yikes.
Anyway I hope this helped. sure makes sense to me, seen it a million times.
In AA we tell people who are relatively new in recovery "My problem wasn't really my drinking but my thinking. However, my drinking covered up my thinking, so I thought drinking was my real problem." If someone stops drinking, and then does nothing about how they relate to the world, we call them a dry drunk because they really haven't faced, in our opinion, the way they re/act, re/spond, et cetera. We also feel that they will inevitably re/lapse because they are staying hostage to re/sentments, which allow them to stay in their thinking. They haven't changed. They changed the picture frame on their picture, and not the picture itself. They changed the scenery and not the situation. A geographical cure.
Diva, you might want to look at this, it's from Hazelden, which is one of the main A treatment centres in the US. http://www.minnesotarecovery.info/literature/drydrunk.htm
My ah(sober) was a dry drunk and I learned what that meant. He wasn't drinking but he was miserable. He had EVERY characteristic of still drinking. Angry, hateful, bitter...he just lived day to day without alcohol (white knuckling it) So even though he was working a program he was NOT liking being sober. When they become sober they need to learn a whole new lifestyle. They have to realize that almost everything that they were can not be. So they have to relearn to live day to day like a "normal" person. My ah(sober) is now a happy person. He is happy and is learning to live happy. He is no longer bitter or angry. He realized that it takes more energy to be hateful, bitter, angry, negative. So he is not a dry drunk. It's called dry drunk because they still act like they are drinking without the alcohol. Understand? I'll explain more if you want to pm me. They can change out of this stage but it takes time for them to relearn behaviors.
I have always said my AH is a dry drunk. Now that I have read the article that lin0606 posted I know that I am right. That is a great article.
I do, however, have a question. It stated that the dry drunk syndrome (for lack of a better word) is progressive. I did not know that. Has anyone witnessed this or have any knowledge of this?
Doxie.....who continues to learn amazing stuff from members of this board!
I am going to be brave and share my own ESH, even though it is not the "Alanon hard line", LOL.
From my research, any sort of addiction allows you to shut out the world to a point and sort of emotionally cripples you. While others are making mistakes and pondering the results and learning from them, the addict is escaping, and so not facing the consequences and thus learning from their mistakes.
I have read that your emotional growth sort of stops when you begin using chemicals to escape from the pain in life. Having observed alcoholics closely, this information seems correct to me.
So, when SOME people stop drinking, they may need psycholgical help to sort of "catch up" in their emotional development. They need to learn to put things in the proper context and not be knocked too low by setbacks in life. They need to learn HEALTHY stress management and other such skills. If they don't learn these skills, they react more like wounded animals when they are sick or hurting, they are angry, enraged, and take it out on others around them (and even themselves) in innappropriate ways. They can also react like children, having rages and adult style tantrums.
Of course this depends on their emotional health to start with (it is common for alcoholics to suffer from an underlying mental or emotional illness which they are self medicating) , the severity of their alcholism (high functioning alcholics still interact with society up to a point and have learned many successful coping mechanisms), and how long they have been an alcoholic (we al know alcoholism is progressive, so the longer that they have been escaping from life, the more severe their problems will be), as well as their general education and intelligence level (some people are in a socio-economic situation which already had limited their ability to learn healthy coping mechanisms, regardless of wether or not they suffere from addiction, so an addiction does not help. Others have had healthy coping mechanisms and healthy forms of stress relief modeled for them since childhood and so may be able to tap into those memories and that information when they need it).
Everyone is different.
There are many people on this board who have shared that their alcoholics have stopped drinking on their own and are THRIVING with no AA. So, not all people suffer from "dry drunk" syndrome althouth it is definately real and extremely common.
One PhD level psychologist who studies alcholism and "dry drunk" behavior (dry drunk is another pop psychology word, unless things have changed, it is not in a legal psychological stand alone diagnosis) told me that it takes 1 - 2 years for a person to really dry out from alcohol abuse and to clear their head and learn to cope with life without a chemical means of escape. His hypothesis was that if after two years, if that person had not managed to learn to deal with life effectively, then perhaps they suffered from other mental or emotional illnesses and that they were simply self medication. So, after 1-2 years of sobriety is the time to assess whether there is a need for a further diagnosis and treatment for a mental or emotional condition that the alcohol was masking.
I agree that there are LOTS of jerks in the world who have not a single addiction, LOL, jerkiness is not a sole right of the addict, LOL.
I know AA says that all alcoholics are alike...well they all drink, LOL, just like we all breathe, but really people are individuals and all very different.
The same psychologist I mentioned earlier also told me that alcohol is not an invader from outer space, LOL, it does not take over your mind and put stuff in there that was not already there, LOL. All alcohol does is lower your inhibitions and hinder the higher parts of the brain. So, alcohol does not cause what some people call "isms", it just lowers your inhibitions so you think it is ok to act out the selfish, nasty, and jerky behavior we all think about from time to time when provoked. Of course, it does not help that due to the influence of a mind altering substance, alcholics can get provoked because the phone rings, sigh.
One of hubby's councelors in rehab is a dry drunk. Continually miserable, nasty and all those things that he was as a drunk. He even admits that he's a dry drunk and has no desire to change. Not a great way to be if you're a councelor. Someone from AA told me that he has known many dry drunks, and while they continue to go to AA 20 years later, they don't focus on other parts of their recovery. That in a very odd way it was almost better if the A was still drinking because they would pass out and not be verbally abusive to their spouses etc. It was almost easier for the spouse to live with an active A that passed out, rather than deal with somebody who's emotions are all twisted. I'm not sure I agree with that, but I can certainly understand their point of view.
Turning into a dry drunk was one of hubby's greatest fears the more sober he got. But I reminded him, he was also doing lots of mental health counceling, and getting grumpy was in a while, does not a dry drunk make. Hope this answers your question.
Love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
Interesting topic. I am not sure of my take on it. I almost agree with the emotional age theory, ya know if they started using at say 12, or 14, or 18 their emotional development arrest at that age. I am not sure how that works for the ones that started drinking at 30 tho.
IMO (and it is just mine) a jerk is a jerk is a jerk. Some folks were not nice peeps before they started using and are not after.
As always, take what ya like and leave the rest lilms
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Two things: 1. Recovery is a process, not an event.....and.... 2. You only get to go around once. Leave em laughing and make it worth your while
The way dry drunk was explained to me was......"It's all the same nasty, selfish, etc. behaviors minus the actual act of drinking." My A was like that early in his recovery, but with counseling and awareness he has worked past this.....thank God (my HP) lol. And yes I do believe it could be progressive, I think any behaviors that aren't healthy will progress if they are not acknowledged and dealt with. I was also told by a psychologist that specializes in addictions, what alanoner said.....the emotional growth is hindered when they begin using. From the experience I have had with A's and addicts this seems to be true. And depending on their home life as a child, they may have to either relearn or completely learn how to deal with life and problems. The people who stop drinking without the help of AA or other program and do well, I think are very aware of themselves and are better able to deal with their problems. I also agree with alanoner that even though AA tells us all A's are alike, many are not. There are many variables that need to be looked at. I believe the use of drugs and/or alcohol is a symptom of something else going on in that person, whether it is simply an inability to deal with problems and stress or because there is an underlying emotional and/or mental problem. I am a person who strongly feels that in most cases an A needs counseling to completly get into recovery, at least to be in a healthy recovery. That sometimes AA alone is not enough. I feel that there is a difference between being sober and being in recovery. The absence of alcohol (and/or drugs) doesn't mean they are in recovery, especially if the ill behaviors are left behind.
Andi
(I just wanted to add alittle note that these are my thoughts, feelings and opinions, sort of my disclaimer , lol)
, lol)