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My son is 47 years old and an alcoholic. He's been drinking since he was 17. Needless to say, I've learned a lot over the years, but , maybe not enough? Let me say here that he has a genetic disposition for mental disorders. The worst (at least known) is bi-polar with manic overtones.Several blood family members have been diagnosed. He has an overbearing/ dominating personality, but shows signs of being VERY insecure. This seems to make him even more forceful in his dealings with people. He used to be a very violent mean drunk, but that is gone now and he is just loud when he isn't passed out (which is most of the time after the first swallow). Now! for my question. He tells me that he can't just choose not to get something to drink. I realize that alcoholics are liars for the most part and will say anything or act anyway necessary to get that drink. I am a very logical minded person. I believe with all my soul that a person makes a choice and deals with the consequences of their choice. And that should be the answer to my question,BUT! I have also learned that the mind can do things and follow paths that humanity doesn't even know about yet. So my question is ---when he tells me that he is trying and just can't help it---do I believe him or has he just found another way to give me hope? Am I correct in believing that even an alcoholic has the ability to make a conscious choice and follow through on it? In case it matters --- he has been having blackouts for years. He has also had delusions, one lasting for 3 days. I'm trusting that you all will know what I'm refering to.
I'm trying to do what is best for him,so ANY help or advice will be greatly appreciated.
AA was founded my men and women who could not stop drinking. Even knowing what would happen when they took that first drink, they would still do so. The two founders of this great program found that only through support to each other and taking this concept to other problem drinkers could they themselves remain sober. Having said that, there are those who can choose not to drink. God bless them, but they are not everyone. AA can help those who want to quit but cannot on their own. But they have to first want it.
So, in my opinion, yes it is a choice. But not all can be rational in that choice. They may feel that they can control it "this time", but usually fail.
What I had to do for myself, was to use the Al-Anon principles to gain my own sanity back. This is done through Face to face meetings, daily readings and this site is a great help.
I am sorry if I was preaching, but you didn't cause the alcoholism. You can't cure it. And you certainly can't control it.
You can however take you life back and start healing yourself.
Welcome to MIP Family Group. I am sorry you are going through this with your son. It is painful to watch someone we love struggle with this disease. I think it is important to learn as much about this disease as possible. It doesn't take the pain away but it helps to understand what the A is going through on a daily basis. Sounds like your son has been battling this disease for quite some time. To answer your question, he may very well be trying to stay sober, but finds that the cravings are just so intense that he has to pick up a drink. That is the psychological as well as the physical addiction talking to him. My AH has the same problem, he'll say I can just drink a couple of beers and I say no you can't. Sure enough a couple of beers turns into a six pack on top of other things to drink. Once the alcohol hits his system the addiction takes over and the insaitable desire for alcohol sets in. He won't stop drinking until he's so sick that he'll do anything for sobriety. That is the ugly truth. For some people their pain is great enough when they get tired of being hungover every morning or sick to their stomach and for others they have to lose their families, jobs, homes etc. before they finally reach a point when they'll do anything to get help. It would be nice if people chose to get help before they lost everything because in my opinion they have much more to live for and stay healthy for.
Take care of yourself, if you go to face to face meetings you might find some really good literature and people there who can help you understand what your son is going through. Keep posting here there are alot of people who will be here for you to support you through this journey.
Peace, Twinmom~
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"The people who don't mind matter and the people who mind, don't matter". (Dr. Seuss)
Seeker, Welcome to MIP, you came where you need to be. I too have heard every excuse and lie in the book, they are so good at telling us what we want to hear and making us feel sorry for them because they can't take care of themselves. I can only share with you how I have handled this situation with my son.
When I realized that my life was totally and completely consumed by my son and his disease I knew that I had to get help for me. I kept doing the same things over and over such as lending money which was never repaid, making excuses for him, taking care of his responsibilities all the while hoping that this one thing would make a difference and he would be so grateful that he would stop drinking. This activity is known as insanity...repeating the same steps time after time expecting different results.
When I went to Alanon I found out that I could not change him or help him, he had to do that for himself and I had to work on me. The first speaker tape I listened to the speaker said that she had chased her kids all over the place trying to fix their messes, clean them up and save them. In the past years she had attended many AA conferences and heard many speakers but she had yet to hear an alcoholic get up to tell his/her story and say "I was saved by my momma".
When I heard this I knew I had to turn loose of my son and turn him over to my HP because he was never going to have any hope of finding sobriety with me on his back and I was never going to find mine dragging him along behind me.
I turned loose of my son and made him responsible for his own actions, I started minding my own business and let him take care of his. This was a shock for him at first because he had always had mom as his personal secretary and savior.
Today I am growing in my serenity and my son is working on his sobriety. I don't know if he will make it or not but I do know that I will be ok.
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Everything I have ever let go of has claw marks all over it.
Hi Seeker, I am glad you are here and hope you keep coming. There is also a chat room that I hope you will come into and chat. There is lots of good stuff here and we do know what you are going through.
Welcome Seeker, A good book that will help you is, "Getting Them Sober." volume one.
It will be a real eye opener as you will see your situation there.
Sadly Aism is a horrible disease that shows in our genetic makeup.No one chooses to be an A=alcoholic addict.
He cannot choose to stop. Well in away that is not true, he chooses to stop all day long I am sure.
They can only stop when they are so miserable, so ashamed, so sick that they will do anything rather than feel the way they do.
IF we do anything at all for them, we only make the hell longer for them. They must get to that point to be able to stop. they may walk into AA, get a sponsor, go to meetings every day more than once to get thru it. They cannot just put it down.
Even if they did, with out a personal program of recovery, all they did was stop one symptom using. There is so much more to the disease.
I am so sad you are going thru this. I have watched my mil see her son the same way and he is 55 now. Sadly he is using a dieing "unlady" to enable him.
It is hard for us to face that they are so driven. They need that drug more than us, they love it more than us.
The best thing we can do is learn to not get into it at all. do nothing for them. Do not provide a home, money, vehicle, nothing. IF you do, you are only helping the disease.
Sadly even if they stop, get on a program, even be ok for years, they usually relapse and are right where they were when they stopped.
Horrible disease.
I believe having a child who is A has to be worse than anyone else. We are nurturers and it is our inate characteristics that tell us to help.
They feel guilt and shame more than we can imagine. They know what they do to their family and other loved ones.
The best thing to do is to take care of you. If your A sees you are ok, that his disease is not tearing you apart, he will do better.
My A told me it tears him apart to see me cry. He cannot take it. So now he stays away as he honestly knows he cannot stop again. He was sober years and then had a brain surgery, relapsed and is now brain damaged. He has done his best to stop so many times.
Now he is absolutely horrid to me to make me stay away. He does not want me to see him like this, and he does not want me to be hurt by it/him anymore.
I can tell him I know it is the disease, but it makes no difference anymore.
We have been in love since we were 17 and have gone thru about everything together 2 people can.
Now i know I will see him again dead or about dead when I am called. I will be there too.
my first husband was only 27. He got drunk and was ran over. Took him 7 days to die. (my second husband was a friend of my first. i got pg by him and he got drafted to viet nam/thailand, so I married his friend. dumb i know now, no matter)
Anyway I feel for you and yours and your son big time. he does mean it when he says he wants to stop. Yes they lie, they are selfish, they are not moral a lot of the time.
If he lives with you, the disease will pull in everyone around it,destroy them, suck them dry.
My A won't live with me becuz he is so into his disease, I am so into alanon and the creator, that I am no fun for the disease. I don't react, I don't cuss, I dont throw things or yell.
I don't do anything for him at all.
anyway I hope you keep coming back. It would not hurt to have AA literature around and the Big Book.
there are meetings here online that are great. welcome, we need you too.
Now! for my question. He tells me that he can't just choose not to get something to drink. I realize that alcoholics are liars for the most part and will say anything or act anyway necessary to get that drink. I am a very logical minded person. I believe with all my soul that a person makes a choice and deals with the consequences of their choice. And that should be the answer to my question,BUT! I have also learned that the mind can do things and follow paths that humanity doesn't even know about yet. So my question is ---when he tells me that he is trying and just can't help it---do I believe him or has he just found another way to give me hope? Am I correct in believing that even an alcoholic has the ability to make a conscious choice and follow through on it? In case it matters --- he has been having blackouts for years. He has also had delusions, one lasting for 3 days. I'm trusting that you all will know what I'm refering to.
I'm trying to do what is best for him,so ANY help or advice will be greatly appreciated.
Hello Seeker. I am sorry for the stress and pain this disease has brought you. I have long battled with myself over whether or not my A can choose to drink. What I see in him is a very sincere desire to stop drinking, yet continuosly failing. Sometimes he seems very selfish and cavalier about it, other times he is ashamed and decietful. I got excited when I met a few A's in recovery and we spoke a little about mine. I mentioned that I often forgive him because I know that he does not want to be that way; to which they both scoffed. They said that he has a choice each and every time. I suppose it's just a matter of finding the right tools to do the job. Best of wishes for you and your A Jamie
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I'm like a pinch of tea...put me in hot water and see how strong I can be.
You might want to go to a couple of open AA meetings - they can be very enlightening. Everyone there has felt that compusion, and has found a way to battle it.
And, it really doesn't matter, whether he is lying or is just so sick he can't even conceive of help or hope. In any case, you need to save yourself, while still allowing yourself to love him. We can't do a dam thing about him, but we can help you with helping yourself.
I believe your son may be being honest. If he has been drinking heavily for 30 yrs. It is probably physically impossible for him to stop drinking w/o medical intervention. Last year my husband almost died from "not" drinking. His body rebelled and wanted what it was used to having. I thought for years that he could just stop if he chose to. That wasn't the case at all. When he did he hallucinated, shook, and vomited for 3 solid days...and that was in the hospital AFTER they gave him drugs to settle him down. Had he not been there he would have surely died. He went in to renal failure. His body did not know how to react w/o alcohol. Many alcoholics do mean it when they say they can't stop. AA is wonderful, but for some it is just not what is necessary to stop. A medical detox is a must for some. I do not believe alcohol is a choice after a certain point...meaning, some that aren't so dependant on it can stop and just feel a bit shaky and irritable. Others are not so lucky. What my husband went through was like nothing I ever saw portrayed on TV. He had no idea who I was or where he was. It took 4 months for him to recover completely. He left the hospital weighing 35 lbs less and his cognitive function was in question for a long time. I literally could not leave him alone. He would try to take his meds twice, thinking he had not taken them yet. He was unstable not only mentally but physically.
I'm hoping others read this too so they know how dangerous detox can be. It truly can be deadly.
As others have said, there is not much you can do about him, unfortunately. Alanon can help you and guide you through this horrific disease.
Take care, Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
Your question is one that many of us have asked over the years, and I honestly don't know if anyone has the "full" answer.... I DO believe that the question is what makes understanding this disease all that more complicated, as it is one of the few diseases where there is at least an "element" of choice involved....
I am not an expert, by any means, on the physiology of the disease, but did learn something when I was taking a course at one of the treatment centers where my ex-A attended. This helped me understand the physical side of addiction, at least...
Our bodies (brains) create endorphins.... Excessive drugging/drinking both stops the creation of endorphins, but also "fools our brains" into believing that our receptacles for this have been fulfilled.... When an addict stops "cold turkey", the body is crying out for these endorphins to be filled..... Normally, the addiction of drugs and alcohol takes several months before the body starts naturally producing endorphins again.... Therefore, an addict/alcoholic trying "not to drink" is fighting an uphill battle, and their body is craving the substance that they are trying so desperately NOT to use.
True recovery from addiction, will typically involve not only physical, but also emotional recovery as well....
I hope the above helps.... I don't think any of us really know the answer as to whether an addict/alcoholic truly "wants" to stop at any given point or not..... It continues to be one of the great mysteries of this disease....
Take care Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
