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Some days I do better than others. Detatching from unacceptable behavior is getting easier, being honest about my part in things is getting easier (I am more honest with myself), but here is the humbling part: I have a hard time telling anyone no. I do it... but then I feel like I should put on my "Oscar the grouch" shirt.
So my AW has talked to an outpatient intensive treatment center.... I think that's great and a huge step. She says she doesn't think she will be successful doing it from her apartment, she wants to do it from home.
Now, I want her to be successful with this, but I don't believe she can spend the quality time learning to be honest with herself with us around. It would be different if she was already living at home and wanted to do this. But how perfect is this, 3 hours a night, 3 nights a week and 2 additional AA meetings and no other distractions. Nobody to fight with, and no excuse for calling your sponsor if you need support.
I told her that I really didn't know how that would work, but I would think about it.
She wants me to be her sponsor I think. I can't do that for sure.
Anybody who has been through early soberiety with their spouse, have any experiences to share?
Take care of you!
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
From your posts, it seems like your wife has a consisent narrative. She's either pleading with you to come home or being angry with you for not allowing her to come home. So, if it were me, I would worry that this were an attempt to "bargain" her way back home. Only you know your wife, of course.
Here are two tools that I use to make decisions:
One tool that helps me make the best decision for me is what I call the "walk-through". For instance, if I were facing the situation you are with your wife, I would "walk-through" what is likely to happen if I say yes. What will likely be like with your wife home during in-patient treatment? Since past behavior predicts future behavior, you'll likely know just based on she has behaved previously. Then, I would "walk-through" what is likely to happen if you say no. The walk through helps me see the pitfalls, obstacles, (and benefits), and then I make my decision from there. This helps you "walk-through," for example,if she moves home and a week or two into this experiment "drops out" of in-patient. You can know now based on your "walk through" how or even if your willing to deal with that scenario.
The other tool that helps me is to ask myself, "What am I telling myself about X situation?" For example, what are you telling yourself about you if you say no? (i.e. that you're not a nice guy, that she deserves a chance, etc.). and then you can see if there's any accuracy to what you're telling yourself.
My A was pretty sick for a long time when he was first sober so I didn't really experience what I've heard described as "stark raving sober". I know my A's body went through a lot of changes while it learned to be w/o alcohol. Had he not been on so many meds I'm sure it would have been worse. Irritabilty, anger and resentment can run high. Remember they are fighting an internal demon in every way. It's a double edged sword. I would want to be there for support, but no way the brunt of what's to come. I think if I were in your situation I would just give it a little time and see if she really wants sobriety, or continues to blame the world. She has tried a multitude of things to guilt you in to letting her come back home. Although I truly hope this is an honest attempt, I think I'd have to wait and see if this is another tactic.
GL Christy
GL Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
I'm sorry. I can't help it. Really. I can't. Because you see, my good friend, she isn't getting sober for you. In fact, she's not getting sober for anyone. Herself included. I'm gonna let you in on a little secret that's really, really important here. And you know the rules about secrets: You can't tell anyone! She's gotten THE CALL! And you know what THE CALL is, don't you? "Hello, Ms. Smith? This is a curtosey call from AT&T, notifying you that your bill was due on the 15th of this month. In light of that it's 24th, we are calling to notify you that we have added a 10% surcharge late fee to your bill..." "Hello, Ms. Smith? This is Dayton Power and Light, calling you to inform you that your bill was mailed the 5th of this month and was due the 20th. In light of that it has not been paid, we are obliged by policy to add $100 for every 4 weeks of non payment. This can be avoided in the future..." You see, this is why I said the other day that your wife is on a fast interstate to a dead end. She's bottoming out. This is why I said that you need to stay out of the way. Now. Here. End of quote. So she thinks she should go to outpatient rehab? She thinks you should be her sponsor? She wants to move back in, go to outpatient, AND she expects YOU to pick up the tab? You see, TX, you hit the nail on the head: She doesn't get it. She needs to get desprate. Get it together on her own. She needs to do more than talk to a treatment center--she needs to check into one! So you're worried about your "Oscar the Grouch" Shirt? You're worried about "No" as a complete sentence with two words? Even though it may save you wife's life and your children's mother? Alright then: Attention everyone: I am hereby giving RTX permission to use the word "No" in a thoughtful, kind, loving and ASSERTIVE way that will help his family and himself recover from the family disease of alcholism.
rtexas....I am in the throws of it right now...my A boyfriend just came home a week ago after 6 weeks away at rehab...and it is no walk in the park. My nerves are raw, my emotions so close to the surface....and as much as I can understand the situation and explain it to my head, my heart is in turmoil. He is irritable,anxious,definitely focusing on my flaws a bit....but aware of it and apologetic. We tell each other so many times a day, "I am sorry - I am doing the best I can". Neither of us are at our best. There is so much each of us are going through , so much to work out, so much we want to share....we communicate extremely well and cover heavy territory and really open our eyes to each other and ourselves...we are growing...but it is painful. Very often it is one step forward, one step back. What helped us was to say we are not going to get into our or each others stuff for a day....have a fast of sorts. No heavy talk. No tears. Diffuse the anger. Walk away. We had a day like that today and it felt so much better than getting into each others stuff.Our code phrase to each other is "Lets be careful..." we say it if in a conversation we feel like the emotions start to take control. We also decided to spend time together doing things we like to DO and do them...not just be together and talk. We get busy together and we get better together. Hope that is helpful in some way... It is good to hear you feel like you have made progress...be confident and proud of that....I am trying to focus on my strengths alot right now, because with all the difficulty/stress I feel myself slipping into old behaviors that I don't want. I feel best making sure I take care of me...exercise, reading, prayer in my way, fun with the kids.Congrats to your wife for making a big decision for her and to you for being so honest with yourself.Good luck and trust your strength that you have...it has gotten you far so far :) Much love, fifi
Fif was absolutely right. And others that have shared with you on the mood swings, resentment, hate, and fault finding tendencies of a recovering alcoholic. Not pretty.
No way in hell would I let my recovering AW back in the house knowing what I know now. If she is saying she needs you to be there for her, is there any chance you can both keep your individual places and you just go over to her place to support her? That way if it turns out to be a ploy, she will tip her hands quickly.
Please don't let the temptation of SEX come to play. Sex with a recovering AW is the WORST! It's like doing a piece of log, a self centered, dillusional, resenting log in my case. But then what do I know.
I want you to think about what is real, real in your life, all that has been and is right now. Don't look at the future, don't dream about the what if's. You are not God, your decision will not determine her Sobriety. You are powerless....you can enable, you can assist, you can drag this out.
What do you know? write it down. Stay away from the "what if's" -- leave that in God's/HPs hands. You do not have the power to ruin this .... nor make it work. Do the foot work, hold it up to the truth you know, ask HP/God for guidance and strength -- you'll know what is right to do -- and I believe you'll know what's not right.
rTX, my friend and brother.... wow.... posts have been quite, er, boisterous, with you, to say the least. we are in similar situations, so i'm taking a lot of this bruntforce therapy to heart, too. the cloud mentioned your Aw 'bargaining' with you. yea, i think i agree with that. just when i've gotten my boundaries set, here comes another offer -- poking me in the heartstrings so that i would be utterly "inhumane" if i didn't comply with her innocent demands. Tig tig mentioned a lot of other stuff that hit me pretty hard, too. I think I'm just going to leave that be what it is. (yes, that is completely out of fear that she will find a post of mine and be bluntly honest telling me truths)
in all of it, we have choice, as we've always had. Al-anon gave us incite that there are many more choices that we didn't know about. choices are hard. you were a brave enough man to come to Al-anon in the first place, so use your tools, use your ESH, use our ESH, take your time, and make your decision on your terms; for your sake, your wife's sake, and your children's sake.
we'll be here for you whatever choice you make, brother cj
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time to stop going to the hardware store to buy bread.
I posted a reply to this last night,hit the send button and "zing!!" lost it. Internet cafe was closing so I didn't get a chance to repost.(This happens to me all the time here)
Oh sweetie I really can understand how you are feeling. Of course,none of us can advise but I can tell you what happened when I was in the same situation. Take what you like and leave the rest.
My A had many,many attempts at sobriety. Sadly,at the time I had never heard of Alanon and was in a country with no resources for me at all.My A used all manner of bargaining to get back into the house after I had forced him to leave.I won't go into all the details,but each and every time the general thing was "I want to get sober,and only YOU can help me"....(as if!!) My A has never held a job for more than a month,is homeless,has no assetts and the pattern of his life is to roam around finding jobs than afford him a meal for the day,a pack of cigarettes in his pocket and a roof over his head...for however long he holds the job. When there is no work about,he heads back to his sister(An A) or his parents(Father is also A) gets embroiled in all manner of arguements,then befriends someone who will "lend" him enough money to get back to me.........seemingly determined he has learned his lesson and now accepts he is A and wants recovery.
Knowing how badly I wanted him to recover,and also knowing that I loved him with all my heart,he would turn up unannounced proclaiming he wasn't stopping,just needed a bed for the night and was on his way to a new job but was waiting for some money to come through.(Always lies) He always told me he had enrolled on a programme and needed to be somewhere else to benefit from the programme whilst still earning enough to keep him. I fell for it every time.
When I found MIP I was at rock bottom! A and I were separated and I really threw myself into this wonderful programme and learned as much as I could absorb. A returned 3 months into my newly found lifeline and breezed in telling me again,that he wasn't stopping,had spoken to some fellow recovering A's and was absolutely determined to stick with the programme this time for him! After two days he had been to two meetings,was reading the books I had bought previously and was seemingly encouraging me to continue with Alanon.I watched and waited and listened. I was over the moon inside as I really did believe he had finally "got it".
He was this time even more insistent that he could do this,and I would see.He was spouting so much programme but interestingly,I often found he was using MY programme to manipulate. "If I do this,you are supposed to do that!!"..........."when I behave like this,it's normal for an A and you are supposed to ignore it and keep loving me until I find my feet"......... " I can behave as badly as I want and you have to accept it is part of my recovery and allow me to do it safely and lovingly" etc. It was as if he was actively attempting to force me into a corner. He could then blame me if he wasn't getting better because I wasn't working MY programme properly. Every failure at sobriety was MY fault,since i was too selfish to be patient enough for him to recover in his own time.,and I drove him back to the bottle.
His last attempt at sobriety resulted in the most awful consequences. He was so angry at me for HIM not making any real progress,that I feared for my very life. He saw everything as MY responsibility. It was MY responsibility to get him to meetings,MY responsibilty to pay all the bills for however long it took for him to get a job,,MY responsibility to put him in a good mood so he could enjoy life,and if he ended up drinking again...........it was MY fault because I didn't support him or love him enough.
We separated a year ago now,and his last words to me were he would never get sober,he was going to kill himself and it would be MY conscience that would be hurting!! A month later he told me that he WOULD get sober and prove to me that he could do this on his own.......and I'd be very sorry to have lost the only man that ever really loved me.
He is still drinking,still bouncing between his sister and his parents.........and still miserable.
I know how hard it is ((((Rtexas)))) when they lay the "guilts" on us. I also know........AS YOU DO......... that ultimately they have to it for themselves. I was the queen of enablers.
For us,I often felt that we could beat this if only he could live close by,and I could be in the background to offer love and support.Living WITH him was hell on earth for me. Our situation was such that his only really viable options were to live with me or his family. None of us can cope with it.It was this dilemma that always lead him back until I could no longer accept it.He would always take the "easy option" and pass the buck!
You've grown SO much in the last year tex.........and I am So proud of you for the wonderful way you are working your programme. Reading your fantastic,loving ,wise posts often brings tears to my eyes.
I often find when I post asking for insight.........that deep inside me somewhere I already know the answer. I am seeking reassurance that my instincts are right. This awful disease leads us down the path of doubting our own judgement. It's taken me a very long time to trust my instincts. Love has nothing to do with it. It can never be enough.
Take care my friend. Whatever you do,know that we will be holding your back.
I've been thru outpatient treatment with my A three times, it helped some then ....
You wrote She says she doesn't think she will be successful doing it from her apartment, she wants to do it from home.
I can understand that thinking until the next situation comes along that she would be more successful at her program if you would agree to just this other thing and oh this other thing is too stressful to deal with ... could you do this?
I don't mean to be mean, I am trusting you know that. Sending much love and support either way. Take care of you.
You have many replies! I am sure you will take what you want/need and leave the rest. My thoughts are on this whole situation are: How would it be harder on her from her own place? Is it b/c you wouldn't be there and somehow she thinks you would be able to keep her from drinking when she got the urge? Even if you stopped her from taking that drink-would she not resent you? My ah is recovering and when he first got out of treatment-almost 2 years ago, I was frantic trying to make everything pleasant and trying to hide/get rid of/avoid everything that might potentially be a "trigger" for him. I was scared to death to turn on the TV b/c there were beer commercials. His trip back down/out was started by "Neer Beer" (that's not true, we know the thoughts and attitudes come first, but then Neer beer had .05% of alcohol in it and he was off and running again.) I have never been separated from my husband, I got pretty close this last time, but didn't have to go there. I think it would be so much harder for me if I had to be separated and then let him back in the house and then things didn't work out and I had to have him leave again. What would that do to your son? How do you think he would handle that? If the reasons she wants to come home are really legit and make true sense to you, by all means do what you believe is best. I would just recommend looking at it from every perspective first--which I am sure you are doing!!!!
You know we are here for you. We don't want to cause you more agony and pain, we just want good things for you! Keep praying about it and God will show you what to do--He will get you through this, too!
I'm sorry. I can't help it. Really. I can't. 
In fact, she's not getting sober for anyone. Herself included. 
She's gotten THE CALL! And you know what THE CALL is, don't you? "Hello, Ms. Smith? This is a curtosey call from AT&T, notifying you that your bill was due on the 15th of this month. In light of that it's 24th, we are calling to notify you that we have added a 10% surcharge late fee to your bill..." "Hello, Ms. Smith? This is Dayton Power and Light, calling you to inform you that your bill was mailed the 5th of this month and was due the 20th. In light of that it has not been paid, we are obliged by policy to add $100 for every 4 weeks of non payment. This can be avoided in the future..." 
It's like doing a piece of log, a self centered, dillusional, resenting log in my case. But then what do I know.