Al-Anon Family Group

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Miracles In Progress 12 Step Recovery Forums -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Al-Anon Family Group -> How to handle ABF who has been talking the talk about treatment without going "co" / how to talk to his friend?
Post Info TOPIC: How to handle ABF who has been talking the talk about treatment without going "co" / how to talk to his friend?
nichtdaisy


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 11
Date:
How to handle ABF who has been talking the talk about treatment without going "co" / how to talk to his friend?
Permalink  

My second query to the forum, shortly after the first. That one will give you background.

My ABF and I had a "come to jesus" moment six weeks ago after he was arrested for drunk& disorderly on the Fourth and he kept drinking 36+ hours after being released from jail.  I wasn't directly impacted, but when I learned about it, I threatened to break up with him.  He admitted that he was an alcoholic, that he needed help, that he wanted help, that he wanted to get better.  And thus started our time at the crossroads of choosing recovery.

The courts dropped the charge a month after the arrest.  He kept his job that he had blown off two shifts over the bender.  He kept me.  He tried to make changes by going sober and by dropping into AA meetings.  I started facing all of my anger about being with an alcoholic and over the course of a few weeks, I got him to relinquish his access to my house (we live separately, but he squatted at my space tons) and the space has helped me regain footing in my own life.

10+ days ago, after the courts dropped the charge, after he held to 30+ days of sobriety, he backslid.  I wasn't around to see it, but in his own words, "I had a few drinks.  I am not ready to drink again.  I lost control.  When I awoke, I realized how good it is to be sober.  I will need help to beat this."  He convinced both me and himself that this backslide only increased his vigilance to get treatment.  So, I was cautiously optimistic.

I have learned in what AlAnon teaching I have been exposed to that I cannot make him change.  He has to change himself.  So, I held myself these last 10+ days to not nag/urge/remind him to act on his renewed intentions.  In order to protect myself, I just keep taking more space for myself.  I guess I want to see if he is able to pursue this on his own.  He wont really recover if someone else makes him do it.

This weekend, I needed to bring up the drinking as we were attending a wedding together.  I asked if he felt strong enough to go and keep dry.  He said yes.  I asked how sobriety had gone over the 10 days since his backslide.  He said, "I am not going to lie to you.  I'm having a drink now and then."  I went a little quiet.  Wow.  That doesn't sound like he's motivated to get treatment.  I let him flail a little with his words.  On one hand, "I know how important it is for me and for us that I get on top of this."  When I ask what's triggering the drinking, "I don't know.  I just get so tired at the end of the day.  So tired...."  "Tired" is a word that I hear alot, and I equate it will feeling a loss of will.  After what is perceived as a long hard day of work, the beer just seems like a warm, comforting blanket.  Whatever.  It doesn't matter why.

We did not have time to talk about it.  There were other people in the house, we had the wedding to go to.  The wedding went fine.  He kept dry.

I know that all I Have to do is to point out his contradictions, get mad, threaten to break up with him, and he will become vigilant again about seeking treatment.  Again, as I said in the previous thread, I feel like I have all this power.  But, I DON"T WANT IT.  I want him to make these decisions on his own.

We are a non-confrontational couple.  We don't like to fight.  We like things to be smooth and affectionate between us.  It is hard for us to set boundaries and hold to them.

So, I haven't said anything, yet.  

When he told me about a drink "now and then", he said that his friend, whom I will call L, who is also starting recovery (late June for her, really committed to AA.  She's struggled with sobriety, but is doing the steps), asked up on him, he told her the truth, and she read him the riot act about how he was deluding himself.  She's a confrontational person, and she told him that she felt abandonned by him because he wasn't journeying with her.  That's all my ABF had to say about that.  

So, I have reached out to L and have asked her out for coffee today, and she has agreed to talk to me.  I was careful to say tha I could really only talk about my stuff, not harp on the ABF for what he is or isn't doing.  But, deep down, I want her to tell me things from her perspective.  I am so tired of not having the information I crave to know how hopeless things are with my ABF.  I feel so weak.



__________________
nichtdaisy
grateful2be


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 7576
Date:
Permalink  

I forget if you are attending Al-Anon meetings for yourself? If not, I hope you will soon. I see you looking for answers with regards to your ABF and how hopeless things are with him. We don't know that - no matter how many people we talk with or statistics that somebody trots out there for whatever purpose they have. All we know is that we are bothered by somebody else's drinking, thoughts, feelings and behaviors over which we are powerless and our emotional lives have become unmanageable. We need help. We have absolutely no power over (and that includes friends and other As) our drinking child, spouse, lover, parent or friend. We do have a place to go for help and to have our hope renewed where we're understood and can learn new ways to live and let live. Keep coming back and attending meetings, too. You can't help him but you can help you.

__________________

"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig
Mattie


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 3613
Date:
Permalink  

I have heard the powerful saying, "When people tell you who they are, believe them."

He is telling you that he is an alcoholic who is not convinced of the urgent need to stay sober and to work his program intensely to help him stay sober.

I don't say "He's not yet ready" because the truth is that many alcoholics (sadly, the majority are alcoholics) are never ready.  What he wants to do is to go on drinking and to keep you also.  He's testing it out to see if it works.  So far, yes, it works for him.

But the thing is that, as you know, it's too tiring to try to be his monitor and goader and make him get into recovery.  Because as hard as we try, we can't actually have any control over it.

So if you decide to leave, it will be because you have decided that the chaos, uncertainty, and insanity is not something that's good for you to live with.

That's the kind of decision you do have control over.

Sometimes it takes a lot of experience before we get to the point where we say "This is pulling me into insanity, I have to leave it."  Where each person draws the line is different.

But for now, it looks to be as if your ABF's own position is clear.  That's what addiction does: the addict puts the addiction before everything else. 

Take good care of yourself.



__________________
pinkchip


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 5663
Date:
Permalink  

It sounds to me that he is reconsidering the label of alcoholic entirely. He had a window of time to get in recovery and that was at the moment he seemed to think he was powerless over alcohol. Currently, his actions do not show that he is ready for even step 1 (which is admitting one is powerless over alcohol and it makes their life unmanageable). I am in AA and Alanon and I will tell you that, for folks in AA that are not sure if they are alcoholic and want to go out, they are often told to go out and try some controlled drinking and if they can do it, then fine...if not, come back to AA. That is probably an experience he will need to have because right now, he seems under the impression that he can do controlled drinking. That is also HIS decision and if I were you, I'd either let go control of it, or let go of him. I can recall saying "I'm an alcoholic" in college, then saying I wasn't, then saying I was a problem drinker, then going back and forth...I was unstable and a nightmare in relationships until my bottom got bad enough that I was convinced beyond all shadow of a doubt that YES, I was an alcoholic and needed total abstinence and to surrender to sobriety, recovery, and AA. The good news is that by then, it had gotten so bad and so painful for me, that I pursued AA like gangbusters. I didn't just "drop in" on meetings. That is ridiculous. "Dropping in" is not how we do AA. We develop a program and follow it rigorously. Our AA literature states "Half measures avail us nothing." Your boyfriend does not sound at all ready for that...There was a long period where I was not ready for it either and messed up my life all the way up to age 36 with my drinking.

Perhaps you are more bothered by the "squatting in your house" and other behaviors he may have that show he's immature and doesn't take action in his life in a manner that you can respect. That is a values clash and it's okay to not be with someone because your values don't match. You don't need the person to conform to your values or cling to them in hopes they will grow up, have an awakening, or change in values. I wasted much of my time in relationships with folks who didn't have the values I wanted. I think you stated in another post that you didn't want to be in a "mothering" dynamic with him. Well...interviewing his friends to check up on him and try and be a "good influence" is something a mom would do more than a romantic partner. If you don't want this dynamic, stop acting in ways that encourage it. You don't need to be all round about to see "are you going to stick to your word so I can respect you?" regarding his drinking/not drinking/going to meetings/rehab/or no rehab. He is NOT doing it. It's done. If you can't respect him for the way he's acted surrounding this, that's your issue again. You have choices.

Not sure what kind of answers you want from his friend that is a newcomer in AA, but sounds like she is feeding him codependent BS as well. When I went to AA, all that mattered was THAT I WENT TO AA! I had to save my own butt first. His friend is barely sober and is in NO POSITION to be doing interventions and she should probably mind her own business. You are doing her no favors by taking her focus off her own sobriety as much as I'm sure she would like to focus on other people's problems rather than her own. I have seen people that try "team recovery" with their partner, best friend, or spouse, and the results usually stink. I wouldn't encourage them being recovery twinsies...If she is upset about not having that, she needs to call her sponsor, not talk to you about it or him. Sounds to me like you set up a big meeting just to gossip about your boyfriend whether you meant it or not.

He has his own path to follow, as does his friend, as do you. Focus on you, let the friend focus on her, and let your boyfriend focus on him. If this not knowing if he is really a severe alcoholic that needs treatment or if something bad will happen again if he doesn't is too much for you, YOU have a choice to not put up with it. You will not get assurance or insurance even if he does go to treatment. Needing it so bad rather than acknowledging your choices and/or letting go is your problem, not his and that is what Alanon is for. Keep coming back.

__________________
PP


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 3964
Date:
Permalink  

You have had some great responses here.  He is handing you over a whole lot of BS and watching to see if you will take some of it off of his shoulders.  Your peace, serenity and empowerment in YOUR life will be dependent upon how quickly you take and keep a seat in al anon meetings.  Life is too short....embrace more joy.



__________________

Paula
Debilyn


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 3653
Date:
Permalink  

I would probably mirror what pinkchip has to say.

I do not believe in looking at what A is doing about their disease. Just not my problem. I look at how they treat me, not why. if it is appropriate and I can use my al anon skills to stick with the friendship or relationship  fine. if not I cannot stay.

Believe me there are worse symptoms about the A than just using a drug. Some are worse when they don't drink and are on program. So that part of them is really not my concern.

They are not slipping or controlling. They are just l living out the disease, playing with it. Like I am allergic to dairy. Sometimes I will try a little cream cheese.Next thing I know i have a fridge of youghurt, cottage cheese mozzarela and sherbert, sick and wondering why.

Then all the symptoms are magnified and I feel awful.

I cannot touch it. At least I have no one to get into my business about it. All I need is for someone to tell me what I already know. "Are you really going to eat that cheesecake? you know you will be sick in the br all night, then all crabby tomorrow." ugh.

anyway drop his stuff, look at you. if you love him love him, enjoy him or don't.

I would not talk to his friend. HIS friend. I sure would not like my guy talking to my friend. boundarie for me big time.

Plus its not like they can help you, they are sick too, plus again it is not their job. Meetings, friends and a sponsor, come here, meetings here too, we are happy to share. Pink chip and others are right on. Believe me we care and know whatcha need. we are you.

debilyn



__________________

Putting HP first, always  <(*@*)>

"It's not so much being loved for ourselves, but more for being loved in spite of ourselves."

       http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/meetings/meeting.html            Or call: 1-888-4alanon
nichtdaisy


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 11
Date:
Permalink  

Thanks to all who responded.

YOu were all right! Meeting up with L was not a constructive use of time. It wasn't entirely destructive either. L has her own baggage with my ABF, and it all came out on the table. I felt compassion for her, she felt compassion for me. We felt compassion for the ABF. She did say one sobering thing. "I was worried you were going to ask me to help you get your ABF help. I would have had to say no. I am not able to help your ABF. I can only help myself." And we talked quite a bit about our respective pull towards men who were unavailable, either because they were jerks or because they were addicts of some kind, putting the addiction before the partner, yet "needing" the partner to keep them afloat..

So, thanks for the heads up on that.

Yesterday turned itself around big time, though. I had a long talk with the ABF at night. I told him how crazy I was becoming worrying about his recovery. I told him how the news that he was easing back into drinking was making my obsessing go off the rails. I told him I didn't have the bandwidth to go on worrying out this. I told him that i needed help. I told him that I might need a break from the relationship. I needed to put the focus back on myself. I needed to let him approach his recovery (or not approach it) however he best saw fit. He's a good communicator when he wants to be, so he heard me, but the things he said made me realize that he seems to be stuck in denial, and is perpetually not aware of how hard I make this for myself. Still, it was a very loving conversation.

This morning, I wrote him an email saying I needed a break for a few weeks. Enough time for me to try to put the focus back on myself. He can do what he wants in that time, although I can't help but wish that he take his recovery seriously. I think that it was a good letter. I know that he's read it and is formulating his response. I said that we should talk before kickstarting the break so that it is on terms we both find acceptable. Some of my non-negotiables are (a) at least two weeks (b) we do not engage romantically (c) we do not talk about our romantic future until the end of the break (d) we do not talk about his recovery or my recovery during the break.

People ask if I have gone to a meeting. I went to one about 6 months ago. Didn't go back for reasons that I can't quite articulate. I guess I hadn't hit my rock-bottom yet. I am going to go to that meeting tonight UNLESS its the only time I have to talk again to the ABF and get the break started on mutual terms. If not tonight, then I hope my momentum carries into the next opportunity. I live somewhere where there are meetings most days within biking distance. I know its good to try out a few.



-- Edited by nichtdaisy on Tuesday 19th of August 2014 02:00:34 PM

__________________
nichtdaisy
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.
Miracles In Progress 12 Step Recovery Forums -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Al-Anon Family Group -> How to handle ABF who has been talking the talk about treatment without going "co" / how to talk to his friend?