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I went to a one on one counseling session last Friday. During which, I was asked if I believed my AH when he said he quit drinking. I had a very difficult time answering the question, and I realize it was not because I didn't know the answer to a simple question, but rather what the answer might mean for an imagined future - what I would do if I was proven correct.
I asked him why, after 2 sessions, are we still talking so much about my husband when I really just want to talk about me. His reply - well you have to address this alcohol stuff with your hsuband first.
Isn't that exactly the opposite of what al-anon teaches? Maybe I misunderstood him. I will ask thim that next week, my last 'free' session provided through my work. I have read that ACOA's have a hard time answering simple questions. If I don't know if I believe my AH, then doesn't that really mean that I don't believe him? But I just can't bring myself to say that. Why?
But it leaves me wondering. I feel that by letting go, letting him do what he chooses, I can't tell him how I feel about what he chooses. Is that wrong? Do I just keep quiet? How do I know what's okay to talk about and what isn't? How do you let go and still set boundaries?
The counselor said I should tell him that if he drinks again, I should have a clear consequence, or rather, let him know what my choices are - for example, if he drinks again I will leave him. I don't WANT to leave him. I don't see the point in this type of talk. My gut is telling me that I should quit seeing this counselor and stick with you guys, al-anon. But maybe it's the anxiety I've felt during these sessions - it seems like I argue with him a lot an he's asking me questions I can't answer. Are all therapists this way? I get the feeling that he is trying to show me how clear things really are, but I dont' see it that way.
I have a hard time making decisions - and now I've added another layer of "should I, or shouldn't I" to my thoughts. How do I let go and still set boundaries? If he asks me, say in 6 months, "would it be okay if I had a few beers", can I tell him No? Is that setting a boundary? I mean he did ask me, after all?
Not all counselors are trained in addictions, so sometimes there is a difference between what the counselor says and what we say. I would say that there is probably value in what your counselor is saying, but just like alanon, it's not the be-all and end-all - take what is said, apply it to your life, and use your judgement.
I agree comepletely with there being clear consequences to your husband's behaviour - however, YOU are the one who decides what bothers you, and what the consequences should be, not the counselor, not us. There is absolutely no point is stating a boundary that you feel unable to maintain, all that does is make you feel worse, MORE powerless, instead of better.
I couldn't agree with Lin more. This is a disease of deception and denial, ours and theirs. Until I was able to settle down a bit, decissions where very hard. Until I could clearly understand what I needed and what I found unacceptable about a situation, boundrys were very tough to define and enforce.
Anyone in any profession who talks with you for an hour and tells you what to say and how you must change your life.... is likely not understanding where you are.
I read your other post and this one... our stories are virtually identical. When I came to Alanon 11 months ago, I was literally on my knees and out of control. This program saved my life... I am sure of it.
I see it as a program of self honesty... and although I thought I was being honest with myself all along, I wasn't. That is part of my disease.
Coolest thing is deciding to not decide today is a decission... and it's perfectly valid.
Welcome to MIP, I hope you get as much out of this program as I have.
Take care of you!
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
Debideb thanks for your post - i am feeling the same way today...and most days of late! i think boundary and i go fuzzy - not a good place to make a decision from - yet decisions sometimes must be made.
letting your H know how you feel about his decisions/actions.....that is issue #1 for me right now. if we can't do that, where is the relating in relationship? aren't i important enough to have my responses matter? or is that not letting go during their recovery?
when i raise my feelings, very often i am met with defensiveness and being told that my bf feels like i am just waiting for him to mess up. am i doing that? or am i just stating my feelings? both?
how do i let go and hold onto a relationship and heal the past ...mine and ours?
on the topic of counselor...it took me a year to find the right one...but i did and now i am so grateful i spent the time and money searching. i felt wishy washy while hopping around, but trust your gut and you'll know when you find the right one. not just anybody will do.
glad you are here, here's to understanding boundaries! love,fifi
Remember that the counselor is not Al-Anon just as we in Al-Anon are not counselors. You may very well get different answers, sharings, etc. from both. This is especially true if your counselor is not an addictions specialists or at least very familiar with 12-step work. In my case, I see a counselor who is very familiar with 12-step recovery, but she is not an addictions specialist so I have to keep that in mind during our sessions. Initially, we spoke alot about my A because that is what brought me to her. Through our sessions, I realized (with her help) that I had issues of my own that I had no idea I had!! But it took going through the process to get there...
Also, while we in Al-Anon will not tell you what we think you should do, a counselor does not necessarily work the same way... But, that does not mean that you have to do whatever the counselor says.
I try to keep in mind the Al-Anon principles and slogans when I am processing my counseling sessions and figuring out what I have learned and what I should do. For example, "say what you mean and mean what you say." This means, do not threaten to leave if the A drinks again unless you intend to follow through with it. If you don't want to then don't say it. Otherwise, the A will lose respect for you and come to believe that no matter what the behavior, you will put up with it. Al-Anon urges one not to make a major decision about a relationship for 6months to a year after starting the program. This is to give you time to work the steps, gain some serenity and figure out what exactly you want to do regardless of whether the A is drinking or not.
I have found it to be very beneficial to work with a counselor together with Al-Anon. But that included finding a sponsor, working the steps, etc. It was not enough for me to just attend meetings. I did that for the first 6 months and after I quit crying, I found that I was stuck--all I was doing was complaining about the A. It was only after I started working the program that I started to get better, stronger and found serenity.
As always, take what you liked and leave the rest and keep coming back!!
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Do not be anxious about tomorrow; tomorrow will look after itself. The Bible, from Courage to Change, p.138
The questions you've raised in your post were among the hardest for me because I had no family or friends in my life who modeled healthy boundaries and "Let Go and Let God" for me. I'm still trying to figure out what boundaries are healthy and what are the consequences that I will set in a given circumstance that is appropriate for the boundary I have stated and with the particular person (often, for me, it'd be a different consequence for my kids than for intimate friends and dif for people at work) -- and what consequence that I will be willing to enforce if my boundary is broken.
A couple of the things you said kind of popped out to me:
"if I believed my AH when he said he quit drinking. I had a very difficult time answering the question, and I realize it was not because I didn't know the answer to a simple question, but rather what the answer might mean for an imagined future - what I would do if I was proven correct." and "The counselor said I should tell him that if he drinks again, I should have a clear consequence, or rather, let him know what my choices are - for example, if he drinks again I will leave him. I don't WANT to leave him."
And I agree with the others that some counselors are not trained in addiction or addictive family issues. Only you know what works for you at any given time. These are all your choices and no one elses -- just as it is true for each of us --> which is something I found/find scary and liberating at the same time.
Another thing that crossed my mind is from one of the CAL daily readers -- I can't recall if it is in Courage to Change or ODAT in Al Anon -- it goes something like 'acceptance does not mean I have to live with unacceptable behavior." This phrase opened up life for me.
One last thing ... I'm a bit concerned that this might go against the "don't give advice" Al Anon rule .... so I'll just say that when I read your post I did not read what you related as your counselor saying that your sessions were to be you talking so much about your husband. I read the counselor's questions as getting your feelings about your relationship and your home life on the table to be discussed. -- of course, I wasn't there, I was only going from what you wrote.
As always, take what you like and leave the rest.
Thanks for your post -- I learn so much when these issues are part of the al anon discussion.
I had problems with a counsillor that I went to, I went twice, finally I realised it was not working as I started lying during the sessions about feelings that I had which I didn't. I did not go back to him after that but it might be a matter of finding the right one. I know what you mean about the questions, there are many fuzzy issues but saying what you mean and meaning what you say makes really good sense to me. My ex-A is living with me at present after a dose of high blood pressure. He has now gone to the pub and got quite twitchy before going. Before I would have gone off the rocker and been very resentful but now I post and I try to keep the focus on me and not his illness. The best of luck to you and not making a decision is a decision too. Try not to let others pressure you.
What stood out to me wasn't whether or not the councelor was trained in chemical dependency issues (although there is some validity to considering that, however that is more a concern for someone who IS an alcholic; for those close to the alcholic, what might be more helpful is someone who is versed in the dysfunction of alcholism and it's manifestations). What jumped out at me was that he had to spend 2 sessions on 1 question that you can't bring yourself to answer.
Does your husband's drinking effect you enough that you're willing to be assertive on your own behalf?
Does your husband's drinking bother you enough that you've come to see it as directly impating your life?
Does alcholism the family disease have enough of a weight on your life that you've come to see your life as unmanageable as a direct result of living in the insanity?
I am sure my expectations were that I'd go to this counselor and he'd have all the magic answers - Gee, Deb, you're this (fill in the blank) and you should do this (fill in the blank) because of (fill in the blank) that happened to you (fill in the blank).
Therapists are able to read between the lines and perhaps read your mind, right? [insert sarcasm]
And the terrible thing is I although I am trying to be honest with how I feel, the truth of the matter is, I haven't a faintest clue what I feel. When I feel, my brain shuts down. When I think, my feelings shut down. The two don't work together.
I'm wondering how much of this ACoA behavior is playing a role here - but even wiht that I'm confused because my dad, although an alcoholic, was dry for my ENTIRE life - up to the day he died he never once had a drink. So I even struggle with this label of ACoA.
Does my husband's drinking affect me, bother me, and make my life unmanageable? Without a doubt - YES. And that is why I am here, my friends, trying to make some sense of everything, find "me" again, and find who this HP is and how I need to live in the present and not in the "imagined future".
Maybe the truth is that I do believe him (that he quit) even though it would seem, according to prior experiences personally and those that I read here, that I shouldn't believe him. Perhaps, again, my need for "approval" gets in the way with just a simple question as "do you believe". My inability to live in the present manifests itself in many ways. The reality is - I DO believe him - whether I should or shouldn't is just wasted energy. I focus too much on the should or shouldn'ts and not on what IS.
Looking forward to finding this HP that will help me find my own peace, strength, clairty, and comfort.
I am finding the wonderful people on this board, your insights & experiences, are just what I need right now. Thank you all very much. You're all like my kitty - curled up and keeping my lap warm - right there when I need a hug and some purring.
I remember being asked by a counselor if I believed my A had stopped drinking and using, I couldn't answer him. Why? Because of fear I guess, fear that if I said I did and found out he really hadn't quit drinking/using I would feel like an idiot for believing him. I had enough stuff I did in the past that made me feel like an idiot I didn't want to add anything else to it, lol. So the answer I gave, a simple....."I don't know". Part of me believed my A and part of me didn't. The counselor, who happens to be an addict in recovery and also specializes in substance abuse told me that it was ok for me to feel that way. That eventually, with time, I would be able to answer that question with a firm yes or no. He understood that the trust was not destroyed overnight, (although sometimes it seems it was) and that in turn the trust was not going to come back overnight either. It was going to take time. He afforded me that time and I was grateful. He also took the time to help me figure out that it was fear stopping me from being able to figure out an answer to such a simple question, which bottom line, was not that simple.
Keep working on you and you will find the answers to anything you need.
Andilyn - thank you so much for your reply! Why couldn't my counselor have said those exact words to me instead of making me feel again like I'm a failure for the inability to just answer one stupid question. (Of course I know he didnt' make me feel anything - my own stinking thinking did.
It's OKAY for me say I don't know - I don't have all the answers -
I am seeing a counselor too and the first few sessions wanted to find another one - one who would let me stay with my A and not challenge me by asking questions I really didn't want to face or answer. You are correct, it is different that Al-Anon meeting s- I felt that as well. But I went to her to help me decide what to do about my situation - she is really helping me deal with my issues now and I'm grateful. For me, she was the exact opposite of my behavior - she is firm, healthy and has good boundaries. For me, perhaps I am afraid of these things though I know I need them to move forward.
This is obviously your decision and albiet a very important one. Not all counselors are alike - it is important to go to someone you trust and feel you can or will be able to open up to.
Just my thoughts. Take what you like and leave the rest.
"I am sure my expectations were that I'd go to this counselor and he'd have all the magic answers - Gee, Deb, you're this (fill in the blank) and you should do this (fill in the blank) because of (fill in the blank) that happened to you (fill in the blank).
Therapists are able to read between the lines and perhaps read your mind, right? [insert sarcasm]"
Wow I had those exact thoughts at one time also. I went to several cousellors, therapists, had family court counselling with my ex... all the time wanting someone to just fix it all for me already.
Seems like only time and constant let downs have got me to a better place. Then I look back and they all pretty much said the same thing, it was just I wasn't ready to hear it, because I was afraid of the unknown. Afraid of being on my own or making decisions that I couldn't blame on someone else if they didn't have a good outcome. In other words I couldn't make decisions that only I could take responsibility for.
I'd be like 'ooh if I do this then such-and-such won't like me, I'll be alone, I'll be a failure..' but you really don't know until you face your fears and be confident that if it doesn't work out that you'll still be okay. There is no failing. If you set a boundary which says if your husband asks if he can drink in 6 months you will say no then you have to be prepared to follow through in confidence, not be afraid that he might not like you for it, that there may be an arguement, that he may *never* respect your boundaries.
For me I realised finally boundaries are about if he doesn't like my boundaries about drinking because it hurts me then he's not what I want and I'm not afraid of that statement. This is how I want to be treated. Same as setting boundaries with children, you wouldn't let them run loose just because you are afraid they may not like you for asking them not to bite you or spit on you. You teach people how to treat you.
But it took going through the process to get there...