The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Everyone says it is useless to talk to As. My ex even recently told me this.
I don't quite grasp this entirely.
I rarely drink, and have rarely gone overboard when I do. I've never had a blackout, so we'll not bother with that, I understand a blackout is a blackout.
Does drinking cause them to lie? Or do they already have to be liars?
Any of the few times I've gotten really drunk, I remember everything. I've always told the truth, but I have said things I would not dare to say sober. If someone had a conversation with me, I remember it and remember the things I said.
Why is this different for As? Is it different for As? Is it different for different As? Does it just vary by personality?
Whenever I've drank, I always saw myself as "me" but amplified, or just "more me". I'd lose my inhibitions about saying what I feel and not worrying about what someone else thought.
I don't know what is meant by "it's useless to talk to an alcholic." What I believe is being said is that "When an alcholic is drunk, it is useless." Or, "Until an alcholic is ready personally to confront their disease, confronting them about their drinking, the personal costs and effects that it is having on the family, the finances, their employment, et cetera, et cetera, this is useless."
What I believe you are asking is "Why is it that I can drink responsibly--even get drunk now and then--and still show up for work the next day? Why is it that I have a partner in my life that can't?"
We talk about "the disease concept" in Al Anon and AA, and modern medicine has bore this truth out: in certain persons, genetically speaking, certain behaviors such as abusing narcotics, liquor, and gambling trigger sensitive hormonal reactions within the brain, causing a chain of hormonal reactions in the body. This means that, whereas you can take your drink and steak too, as soon as the alchol enters your partner's blood stream, his brain has already begun to direct the hormonal systems throughout his body to 1)process the alchol slower: the alchol will remain in his system longer, be more potent, and cause greater harm to his body than to a non alcholic; 2) to affect his brain functions: any sort of "emotional functions," or "psychological thinking" are going to be affected in anyone who drinks--I mean, seriously, we all have our funny drunk stories; but in alcholics the brain warps the emotional functions: like a "wide load" on the interstate the alchol will over ride all other emotional, psychological, or "higher thinking" functions to a point of deep impairment.This is why "old timers" are adamant about seperating the "alcholic" from the "alcholism": when the person drinks, they become hostage to their disease; until they drink, they are, at least in some capacity, "themselves." Granted it might be a person with a awful hangover, but it is "your partner."
A book I highly recommend you pick up to furhter understand this is Alcholics Anonymous, aka "The Big Book." It is the hand book of AA. Additionally, many members have found the "Getting Them Sober" series infinately valuble in some of your queries.
I'm in the middle of reading if for yet the fourth time :)
No, I understand why I can drink responsibly and As can't.
It's really about being able to believe the things they say. Not what they say about drinking. I see that differently. I smoke cigarettes. I want to stop. I've stopped many times. I still haven't succeeded. But I still want to stop. I'm not lying about it and I mean what I say. And I remember saying it.
Everything else...and I've been hearing this for a long time from many people. And I just don't get it. Maybe they just don't remember?
If you stopped smoking, then started again, you'd be a bit ashamed and embarrassed to smoke in front of all the people that told you it stinks, it's harmful to your health and you are weak. You may hide it and even lie.
Magnify that tenfold for what an A feels everyday. Only they sometimes don't have the will to stop. They make excuse after excuse to cover the deep denial. Their whole life can become a lie at some point, built around getting that next buzz.
That help?
Christy
-- Edited by Christy at 15:23, 2006-11-17
__________________
If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
In my experience it is not that they are "liers", it has more to do with thier view of reality becomes so distorted by the disease that it is hard to get any kind of answer from them based on facts.
That doesn't apply to every conversation I have with my AW, only the ones that count <sigh>
If we are talking about the kids school stuff... no problem. As soon as we talk about weekend plans, managing money or our relationship... it is like she lives this weird double life where everything is different. It's a place where I treat her bad, and say horrible things to her... and where instead of breathing to live, she drinks.
I absolutely could not get her to even repeat back to me things I would say without the meanings changing all around. It's not like she is being malicious, its like she is insane...
Makes it quite hard to take care of family business. That is why the 3 c's are so important. You didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure it. If you apply that to what's being said many times it will keep you away from some nasty conversations.
Take care of you!
__________________
"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
Yes, that is a lot like I was getting at - plans, money, relationships. He always remembers what I say, drinking or sober. He just says I can't believe anything he says. He's always changing his mind, it appears, and never gives all the facts. Very good at avoiding direct answers. If he does give direct answers, he takes them back later. Then says not to believe a thing he says when he's drinking.
I realize that is a great tool for modifying my behavior and thinking, both in the program and in dealing with him-not believing anything they say when they are drinking, or sober for a specific time. Avoids a lot of conflicts.
But is that all it is-a tool? Or is it factual that they cannot be believed?
You said - "But is that all it is-a tool? Or is it factual that they cannot be believed?"
My opinion is that it depends on the person, on the subject and how distraught they are. The fact is they are being irrational many times. How many times is impossible to answer. It is very frustrating.
At some point for me, I was driving myself nuts trying to figure out which of the things she said were real and which weren't. I calmed down quite a bit when I decided that it didn't matter. If it was all true, or all lies, I still had to make my own decissions and live with them.
I am finding life more manageable that way.
Hope that helps a bit.
Take care of you!
__________________
"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
I think it can be good at times to just get my feelings out there. For me as a caretaker, martyr, giver I gave till I dropped. When I stopped giving and started itemising how he did not give back it helped. Yes certainly he did not listen after all he has a history of getting what he wants regardless of what I want but I heard it.
So I wouldnt say it is wasting your breath necessarily. However you set limits provided it is not killing you and abusive it is good. Setting limits is very hard for some of us. I found it nearly impossible. Indeed I think that's what my whole year in al anon has been about setting limits and making plans for me regardless of him. Before there was only "us" now there is a "me".
