"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

cdb · ~*Service Worker*~

Daughter's Relapse, Father's Spiteful tongue

confused · Senior Member

(((cdb)))

I feel for you, your daughter and your husband. As I read your post I kept thinking, yes, it is a family disease and we become as sick as and sometimes sicker than the alcoholic along the way. Your posts shows such compassion towards your daughter, it is obvious that you love her and want her to get well. Perhaps it would be helpful to look at your husband through the same glasses. He is sick, may not know it or even be willing to do anything about it yet, but sick just the same. By applying the tools of the program to your relationship with your husband in the same way that you would with your daughter perhaps you will find some of the serenity that you so desperately want.

I hope you find peace today and if you can, take a nap. HALT - our reactions are altered when we are hungry, angry, lonely or tired. And I bet if you were up at 4am typing this you are certainly tired today.

Thanks for sharing with us all,

Lynn

kitty · ~*Service Worker*~

I feel for all of you & ask God to shed some light, peace, protection & hope into your lives. ((( cdb )))

I can relate to the "pounding it into their head" crap ~ last year when I tried to OD & I finally got the courage to tell my mother about it all she did was yell at me. When I told her how I set the cats up & closed the door b/c I didn't want them to see me, she sd I "didn't deserve my cats" for what I had done.

I thought in telling her maybe she'd tell me she loved me or she was grateful I was spared, to no avail.

I'm a sensitive soul, I do well with a little encouragement ~ the criticism rips me apart to my core & all I ever wanted was to please her... maybe she sees me as weak for this.

All I can do is tell you I relate, understand, give you my love & support. I hope he does go away for a few days so you & daughter have some time to talk & spend alone. Love & prayers to you all & Burton.

Love, -K

lin0606 · ~*Service Worker*~

Any chance your husband could be persuaded to get involved in alanon? Sounds like he needs it. You might want to mention to him that if yelling at A's made them sober up, there would be no A's - believe me, we've all done lots of yelling.

Your path with him is the same as the one with your daughter - focus on you, set boundaries that you feel able to keep, take care of yourself. I know it's tempting to get into the middle between them, but that puts you in a difficult position - you don't want to have to be defending her relapses. I hope, if your daughter decides to cut off contact with your home while he is acting this way, that you are able to keep in touch with her some other way - either meeting her somewhere else, or by phone or computer.

Keep coming back.

david62 · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi cdb,

Hope you have rested since you posted. I hate this disease too. I hate what it does to others, I hate what it has done to me. I am grateful to have this program and for the opportunity to change for the better it provides me.

I really like what confused resonded to you, and was having some of the same feelings as I read your post. We didnt cause it, we cant control it, we cant cure it.

Your daughter does what she does. We can have tons of empathy for her, but she allows these "slips". Your husband does not cause them, anymore than your daughter's issues makes your husband rage. Each of them chooses to allow these behaviors to continue.

It is so easy for us to return to old behaviors. So difficult sometimes to remember to use the tools this program gives us to avoid the chaos which grabs hold of our minds sometimes. It always amazes me, that I can learn something that really helps me to deal with a situation and come out of it smelling like a rose, then just forget what worked when the exact same situation shows up the next time. Sheese!

Anyway, I just wanted to wish you well, and to remind you to keep taking care of yourself.

Yours in recovery,
David

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

<<<<cdb>>>>

Sorry to hear of your daughter's ongoing struggles, and a couple of 'gentle reflections' here....

I think everyone is at a different place in their respective recoveries... Your daughter is using, which is of course a scary thing - but it is HER thing...

Your husband is raging, which of course isn't helping him, or your daughter - but it is HIS thing...

For what it's worth - your post serves as a good reminder to us all - we can only really focus and concentrate on ourselves, and our own behaviors.... "taking on" other people's recoveries, whether it is the A's, or the Al-Anon's, is a fruitless exercise that will almost always end in unmet expectations and angst for us...

She will either use or she won't, AND he will either rage, or he won't...... what are YOU gonna do?

I hope you choose to take care of you.

Tom

Cilla · Senior Member

Hi cbd,

What a whirlwind of circles this provocative disease causes in our lives. I can very much relate to the choices you feel you are having to make between your husband and your daughter. But as many said in this posting, you must keep the two separate in your thinking. I too deal with a wayward 13 year old son who is now facing quite a few criminal charges against him and will have to go through the justice system as his parent. However, I have a bf who tends to have the attitude similar to your husbands but with some restraint as he is not the childs father, but it is enough for me to have to guard myself from jumping into old behaviors for myself. Hence, child says something in a strong opinion like style and sometimes not to strong, bf raises a voice to the level of a commanding officer and states basically the child just needs to shut up and put up, then there is me... the one who no longer does the "shut up and put up" stance, but waits until I can respond in a way that I would hope the child can hear better.... but then this displeases the bf because he then thinks that I'm am ignoring the behavior of the child.....(I do the same with my inner reaction to bf too, I call it detaching) ... as you can see there is that vicious circle going on. Within that circle is alot of defense mechanisms also developing within each individual. Probably the only benefit I have going is my program and spiritually which I cling dearly to, even when I am having those bad moments within myself. Also bf is in al-anon and I try to realize that he is still working through his journey as well. Something that also causes me a bit more fustration because I truly don't believe he would treat a sponsee the same way he comes across in dealing with my child. But what I am trying to do the most is to keep both those issues separate. I work at not trying to defend my son when I relate my observences to my bf, and I don't coddle my son when he is in the wrong. When he makes the choices of poor behavior that he has been making I have choose to do what I can to see that he is receiving counseling and outside guidance, look at what boundaries I need to readjust with him and pull the reins tighter on him myself to the best of my ability as a working single mom with health issues of my own. But I will not bail him out of any trouble he has gotten himself into through the choices he has made. As far as taking him seriously when he says he hasn't gotten into any trouble this summer, I take that to mean he just hasn't gotten caught yet. He has been trying to tell me that for the past couple weeks, and guess what.... he was caught having snuck out of the house at night one day this past week... stayed out all night until he thought I would be up. hmmmmmm..... we do have to remember that they are excellent manipulators!

I would suggest reading though the pamplet "The Merry Go Round of Alcoholicm". If you don't have it handy I recently saw something at: http://sym3540.tripod.com/themerrygoround.html

Hopefully it will help to bring you some extra insight of how each of us plays a role in this disease, and how important of us to keep focused on our own choices within them.

My heart is with you!

Cilla

marchgrl · Veteran Member

I too know how it feels to be up thinking in the weeeee hours of the night. It's nice that we have this board to get some immediate anwers! Thank you HP! Well, I guess I would start by saying that sobriety is very hard especially when one is younger and I feel. The peer pressure and all that stuff....My heart cries out to her...truly.

But, on the other hand, I think some healthy boundaries should be set pretty soon since she has relapsed a handful of times already. I am not sure how your daughter is but if she is over 18 years I would set a boundary. Boundaries protect people from raging like your husband.

I am a mom to a 13 year old and couldn't even fathom the thought of telling my daughter to leave because she wasn't respecting or following my boundaries...but I would. I would admit her somewhere first...and probably admit her again and give her chances but then If all else failed I would have to do what's right for her. I would have to teach her tough love.

I hope you get some sleep tonight...I will pray for you and your family.

peace

March

Dolphin123 · ~*Service Worker*~

(((((((((cdb)))))))))),

This must be so hard on you. I am sending you hugs and prayers.

Good for you on taking care of you, you won't be doing yourself any good by neglecting you.

Relapses sometimes happen, and if your daughter is still recovery focused, she will find her way again. You have done so well with her, and I know you will be able to show her the lvoe that she needs. I know my "A" really beats himself up for slipping, and nothing i say or do could ever match the pain he is putting himself through. So I show him the love that he needs to see, because he can't love himself at the moment.

Do something nice for you, you deserve it.

mel123 · Senior Member

Hi cdb,

I certainly can feel your pain! This horrible disease really does affect the entire family, and it isn't pretty! Both my husband and I have had to work through the many hurts brought on by this disease, as well as my kids. I really believed it affected my 17 year old daughter deeply. She is still struggling with some anger towards her brother, but is working on forgiving. We are all working on forgiving and moving forward. One thing my son said while in his Teen Challenge program, was that he learned that relaspe doesn't have to be a part of recovery. That was very powerful and freeing to him. All he'd ever heard before in previous program and aa meetings was that relapse was a part of recovery. He felt like that was setting himself up for failure, because it was expected.

As far as your husband's response, I think sometimes we can just "lose it" with this disease. I know I have. And you will say almost anything to try and get their attention.......usually not helpful. Someone had mentioned boundaries, and I really do think they are necessary for our welfare and protection. We had to do that with our son. Tough love........hardest thing ever, but necessary. I will keep your family in my prayers. Your daughter wanting recovery is huge! Take care and keep your eyes on God.

Blessings,

mel

cdb · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks so much for your replies (((((((hugs))))) Things have worsened! Well, maybe for the best, but here I am crying my eyes out. My husband did leave for Montana for a couple days. My daughter's dog chewed on the vacuum cleaner cord and my husband blew a gasket. My daughter was in and out today and I never talked to her until just now.

She called from a High Risk Lock Down Safe Home :( She is wanting to " rip her ex-boyfriend's eyes out " and she is full of anger and rage. This is the boyfriend that recently strangled her and beat her up. At least she is feeling. She refuses to come home, see or talk to her dad. I have to get her car later on because it can't stay at this place. My good friend (whose son is currently selling drugs) will help me get it later on. My friend is in such denial. Another sad story.

It helped to read the replies just now as I came to my computer looking for support. It feels good to be home alone for some reason. My husband is gone. My daughter is in a safe place for now and will get an evaluation tomorrow through state aide.

As for me, I feel like a wreck. I did sleep most of the day exhausted by emotions. My daughter said how we all have problems and mine is that I always want to fix her. I just listened to her and acknowledged her feelings. She is angry her brother can go drink and get drunk on his butt and drive but we get made if she does. I agreed that he may be an alcoholic too but would be progressing in the disease and we are aware of that. She is so full of anger and again, I think that is a healthy sign. She has been full of anger for years now. I just hope and pray the help she gets tomorrow is what she needs since it is new caretakers.

I am not sure what I will do for me. For now, I read the replies and it calmed me down. Your replies made me feel supported and understood. I will take care of the dog and cats and they will show me love. I did let my daughter know that I have no control over what her dad or brother do. I did end the conversation with "I love you". I guess that is not enough, but for now, it is all she will let me give to her.

cdb

isabela40 · Senior Member

((((((((((((cdb))))))))))))))))

How awful to have such a beautiful young only daughter and to see her suffer so much!!!!

Having alanon, you know this is a disease and can have compassion for your daughter, but your husband, evidentally not knowing much about it, thinks he can bully your daughter into sobriety...sigh...how painful for both of them.

I like what someone else said...maybe try to have compassion for your husband and realize he is "sick" and not be so harsh to judge him. He is sick in his own way...sick with hurt to see her daughter do this to herself...in his mind "on purpose", and sick to be so helpless to do anything, and sick to feel like he is "enabling" her since she now lives with you even though he may not realize what that means.

Heaven help me if I ever lived in my father's house and did anything he disapproved of!!! He made clear his expectations and I took them seriously...I never tested him...I respected him too much. I can only imagine the terrible hurt that he would have felt had I gone down the wrong path. My father worked very very hard to be a good Dad and role model. He had no addictions and actually taught me about the danger of alcohol consumption. He told me to never try alcohol, and possibly pick up an ugly and unhealthy habit.

I can imagine the pain he would have felt had I thrown away the value of his good example. He was not perfect, but even to me, as a kid, his efforts were obvious. I could not have broken his heart by turning aside from his good advice.

Well...we live in different times now...no longer do young people have support from all areas to do the right thing. So many of your young people have gone astray and make choices which hurt them.

Your husband is like a wounded animal, lashing out in unbearable pain and anguish. It must be horrible to have a daughter that you love and have cared for make such horrible choices for herself...and you must keep swooping to the rescue and pick up the pieces....

Your husband is getting older possibly, maybe he is worried for how much longer he CAN come in and pick up the pieces.

Since your daughter sought shelter in your home, he likely feels even MORE responsible for her. So for her to engage in similarly risky behavior probably is just more than he can handle.

He may think that he has been too lenient in the past, and that is why she is so irresonsible in his eyes, and he is trying to make up for that....SIGH...like an evening of harsh words can make an alcholic sober...how sad for all of you.

Try to have compassion for him, like you do for your daughter.

Maybe you can help him to sort of "do" alanon without really joining? Since he is so reluctant?

You say your daughter left her dog with him to care for...he unlikely did NOT like that, being taken for granted and having to be the flunky in his own house. Maybe you can talk to him about making your daughter more repsonsible for her choices? Such as next time she takes off and does not care for her dog to take him to an animal shelter as an abandoned dog? And make her pay for his boarding to get him back? Maybe put that in writing for her, so she can't claim she 'forgot" or never believed you would do it.

Or that next time she takes off on a binge that you will put her things out so that your husband does not have to watch her self detruct up close and personal? And STICK WITH IT! Put it in writing that if she is going to live in your home that she must follow your rules...and if she does not like it, that she can move out. That will likely improve the relationships between your daughter and husband. It is probably unbearable for him to see her taks such risks KNOWING she is doing it since she takes him for granted...that he will be there to bankroll her bad choices.

He probably can't bear to do this, and may want to throw her out and may worry about what YOU will say about it and can't deal with both of you, so he lashes out in the only way he knows how...with words...since he may feel like he can't take any action.

Come up with a plan with your husband alone, put it in writing and give it to your daughter. Make a united front with your husband about not enabling.

Your husband needs your compassion as much as your daughter does...

I will pray for ALL of you.

Isabela

cdb · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks again for your compassionate and wise replies. I have alot to think about and reflect on here. Mostly I am just very sad right now. I just hate this disease and what it does to families. It is hard to not want to blame me but it is each person's choice as to how they respond. For now, I am home alone and still shedding tears once in awhile. I am turning it over to HP/God the best I can. Thanks again for the support. cdb xoxoxoxo

mel123 · Senior Member

My prayers are there for you!

Blessings,

mel

cdb · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you mel. I feel like my prayers are being answered, but then I feel like I have a death in the family too. I guess feelings just are. Knowing there are prayers gives me strength. ((((mel))) ty for your prayers. cdb xoxoxoxo

Lexie · Senior Member

((((((cdb))))))

I just read your post and am just so sorry you are going through more pain brought on by this insidious disease. Just know that I care and I am praying for all of you. You so deserve to get your serenity back! Just hang on to the knowledge that you love your daughter, but that HP loves her even more. Give her over to Him and you will find the peace and serenity that you are so in need of, my dear cdb. Please keep us informed on how you are doing. You can only take care of YOU.

Love to you, Lexie

cdb · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you Lexie! I am trying to turn it over and your prayers are truly appreciated. I talked to my daughter on the phone today and she sounded so much better. I feel relived now that she is getting help for the assult and whatever else is needed. My husband called and is at his mom's house. I think he has had time to think about the things he said too. I am resting today and taking care of me. Your kind words sure help! cdb xoxoxoxo

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"