I was thinking about how I learn about people by how they react to each other in our alanon medium here.

They show their trueness by how they respond and how they share. I like it when no one attacks each other but shares their own experience. I don't profess to be anything but me. My hp and I have a  very personal, precious relationship.

I have had so many miracles since I found this spot. If you could not see me, I bet you would not know I am the same person. If I feel someone has found something special, I see it in the way they share. They don't have to tell me what they believe in or who their hp is.

Actually I can see why we should not discuss certain things in here. When a person says they are this and that, I then find myself curious and want to ask them about it and it has nothing to do with alanon. So it takes my focus off what makes me come here.

For me, for someone new or not, to come to this spot and start causing issues and problems and making others uncomfortable, is rude. Especially when they have been politely asked to stop and told why.

A lot of you know what I believe, probably known as the most pushy group of people you may know.

lol but not all are like that. I don't want to talk about it here. I want to be a good example, I want to do my best to show how nice serenity is and how working the program does work. Boy does it.

Love,debilyn

I posted the following in a few post above this one; this is a serious issue and it needs to be addressed without any beatin' around the bush.

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If I want to quote religious scriptures, promote or advertise my religious beliefs, belittle, degrade others beliefs, condemn them with the wrath of God, or threaten them with hell etc.. I could and should join a like minded chat room, or a local ministry.. It doesn't belong in Al-Anon at all.

Alcoholism and the Suffering it brings to either the sufferer or those that love them doesn't care if we are Christians, Muslim, Hindu, Wicken, or even Wacko.  It tears us apart, destroys the fiber of spirit inside the sufferer, and breeds a sense of defect and hopelessness in those around them. 

It does not discriminate at all.

Nor does Al-Anon.  Al-Anon does not endorse any outside causes, nor is it allowed in any room or medium that utilizes the name/word "Al-Anon".  There are only two definetions that are acceptable for the purpose of describing or identifying a spiritual entity within an "Al-Anon" environment.  God or Higher Power.  The two words, names or titles (however you view them) that are used in the 12 Steps of every 12 Step program.

A Singleness of Purpose statement that is read at a great many meetings says..."Al-Anon Is Spoken Here".  This means we do not discuss personal religious beliefs, promote or endorse religious doctrines, teach or quote religious scriptures.  This means we are not to bring to the table shares that expound the value of one religious belief over another.  It means we are to stand solidly on Tradition Two as a group in that "Our ulimate Authority is a Loving God, who expresses himself in our group conscious."  Not to be expressed by any individual in our behalf, for our sake, or as our spokes person.

Now without a doubt many here are devote believers in Christianity.  Some don't hesitate to express this when they should be hesitating.  Because again, without a doubt, it would curle their hair big time if someone else affected by alcoholism stated and expounded upon their religious beliefs which promoted Satanism, Judism, Hinduism, Wackoism, or Islam.  They would confront that individual and start a religious battle of words, debate religious philosophies, condone and condemn one another, degrade, belittle and devalue the personal relationship each other had with the "God, of their own understandings."  Al-Anon would get absolutely lost in the mix and we'd lose the very reason we come together.  To help each other and other Al-Anon's recover from the adverse effects of Alcoholism in their lives.  We would literally be chasing many people away from Al-Anon because we are not speaking the language that they need to hear, and demonstrating the behaviors and attitudes that they need to see.  The language of Al-Anon.

This is not where we are allowed or suppose to be attempting to sell, promote or bull dose our personal religious beliefs on any one else for any reason, in any way.

Tonight a person entered our chat room and put  JesusIs_4Me  as their nickname.  Doesn't seem like too big a deal to most Christians.  But many of the same ones would throw a fit if someone came into the room with AllahIsGod as their nickname or SatanLuvsU as a nickname.  Our chat room would become a place of religious debates and the newcomer who came in would be exposed to everything but Al-Anon in the mist of it.

I pm'd this person 3 times, asking that they change their nick to one which is neutral because we are not allowed to promote or endorse any outside causes in Al-Anon.  That Al-Anon is a spiritual program not a religious one, we are non denominational in that we cater to people of many religious beliefs and views and their using it as a nickname was inappropriate because it insinuated the promotion or advertisement of their personal belief.  They did not respond to the PM's.

There were 5 other people in the room at this time.  I then went directly into the chat room with my request, with this line;

"jesusis_4me.. this is not a room where you are allowed to express or promote your religous beliefs, this is Al-Anon, I am a Christian but out of respect for Al-Anon which caters to people of all religions I must ask you to change your nick to a neutural one or leave the room. This isn't up for debate its Al-Anon policy, please comply immediately."

This person went into debate mode, very defensively and I reiterated: "read what was said above, its not debatable"

Again this person tried to pull me into a debate with them, I didn't entertain it.  I finally decided I had tried the nice, loving, warm way... and went to:  "You are welcome to return when you are willing to respect Al-Anon traditions..we do not support any outside causes, you were given a fair chance to comply."  They still didn't change their name and they didn't leave, they continued trying to suck me into the debate they were seeking, and I wasn't responding to.  I then inserted my last statement to them; " end of subject.. you will be kicked at this time, should you return with it, you will be banned until you agree to use a neutral nickname."

Family, we can share about how God or our Higher Power brought us to Al-Anon, in a general way, How our God or Higher Power helped us in Al-Anon in a general way.  We CANNOT define those words, names or titles in any way that seemingly promotes or advertises our personal religious beliefs, we CANNOT give expression to personal religious beliefs that in any way belittle, degrade or devalue the religious beliefs of others, We CANNOT quote scriptures, regardless of which religion they come from.

What we can do is Speak Al-Anon.  We can Share our Experience, Strength and Hope as it relates to Alcoholism, Recovery from it, and Al-Anon as a medium by which that recovery was made possible.

On this board you are to speak Al-Anon.  Not religion, not scriptures, not personal religious beliefs.  If you choose to do so, please understand that all MIP Message Board Monitors are fully authorized to delete your post without explaination, without justifying and without having to defend themselves for it.  They are attempting to ensure that this remains a Al-Anon environment, comfortable for people from all walks of life, and all religious backgrounds - whose lives have been adversely affected by Alcoholism.

Should one of your post be deleted for this reason and you choose to come here and debate it, harass the MIP board monitor about it, attempt to create controversy and division among our group members with it, start pm'ing members with pm's about it, you will be banned pending your written committment to end such an endeavor that stands to harm the newcomer seeing Al-Anon for the first time, other members of other religious beliefs, and Al-Anon as a whole by distorting its message with your message.  If you violate the conditions of your commitment/return you will be banned permanently.

This is Al-Anon, a 12 Step program, not a place to do religious ministry work based on any individuals personal religious beliefs.

Leave it off the table or expect it to be taken off the table from here on out.

Yours In Recovery,

John F. (aka OP_Present)

Founder, Webmaster and Admin of Miracles In Progress

PS. All 5 room members present when this transpired in the chat room thanked me for addressing it there, they wanted to but were afraid to, were made to feel "Uncomfortable" by this persons nickname.. and 3 of them revealed to me that this was how they felt about this nick being in the room, even though they themselves were Christians.  We are most definitely an Al-Anon Group in the truest sense of the words.  Let's stay that way... Let's Speak Al-Anon.