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Thanks, everyone, for listening (reading) and responding. I appreciate all comments. I am a fairly new Al-Anon member. I attend meetings locally. This is my first online posting. I am living apart from my A boyfriend. We lived together for several years, but I moved away partly to separate myself from that craziness. I still love him and am in constant contact with him, hoping our situation can improve. He has been sober for 3+ mos. and is working the steps. We talk about our programs over the phone, and have had great conversation lately. It seems we are making progress! However, I spoke with his mother a few times this week (with whom he lives) and she seems to think he is using something. She said he has been sleeping all day, cleaning his room at 3 in the morning, she found him standing in the kitchen staring at the wall, and even sleeping on the toilet. I have asked him and he says, no, he has not used anything. I'm not quite sure what to do from here. He is supposed to come visit and I am moving back in a few months. My question is this: is lying, even when sober, part of his disease? Should lying ever be accepted? Will I ever know if he's lying or not? Part of me wishes his mother wouldn't share any of this with me. Thank you!
I can only tell you that my husband is an alcoholic and for me they go hand and hand. It started with little white lies that i would catch him in now and again. Now, he makes the story to suit HIM !! I dont know if one is a symptom of the other but I can tell you that little white lies have built into a relationship where I really dont know the truth and i dont think he does either. Sad !!! My children even recognize his lies now.. How do you tell your children not to lie when they witness their father lying every day every story.. Not to saying that it will happen to you but I can only tell you my experiences. !!
I would think that his behavior would hint that he is using something... And if he is lying about it when he is using, then he is not lying about it 'soberly'. I, too, am new to the world of alanon, but have had an active A bf in my life for two years. In order to get us back together when we would be apart, yes, he would lie to me. I guess the only advice I would have is to really search your heart and THINK about if you should move back in without knowing for sure if he is using anything.. and if you can handle the craziness if he is.
Lying IS part of the disease, if you ask me.
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Faith makes things possible; it does not make them easy.
Lying.... From my experience, lying is part of the game. What I have learned over time is these may be a truely different kind of lie than you are used to. My AW lies, but believes every word she says. It is part of the disease. Now take for granted that my wife is still actively drinking and not in recovery at all. The phrase "... watch the actions and not the words... " are scattered all over this site. ;)
Here are just a couple of things to think about. Others have posed these questions to me.
If he is not behaving in a way you find acceptable, does it matter if he is drinking or not?
If you think the mother is confusing the matter, would you feel comfortable to let her know he has to work his program and you have to work yours? The blow by blow of how he's acting is not really what you need from her.
I have heard over and over again that an A will have many of the same manerizms weather drinking or not for anywhere from a year to forever after getting sober.
I think it's a blessing that you are both in a program at all. Please keep posting, we all learn from each other here. This is a wonderful place, and again welcome.
Take care of you!
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
Thank you, all! RTexas, I also posted a reply to your thread. I respect your wisdom and strength. I think I will write a letter to his mom, letting her know that we all need to work our own programs and take care of ourselves. Knowing the day-by-day details of his behaviors does not help me. I cannot control his actions. The only problem I see with this is that I do sort of appreciate the knowledge she provides. I would not think he is lying to me (even though I have seen the signs and choosed to ignore them myself) if she didn't clue me in. It makes me think about whether he really is someone I want to be with. I'm having a hard time accepting that his lying is due to the disease.
In my experience lying is a big part of this disease.
I have partially separated from my AH (we have an agreement that when he drinks he goes to his house but when he is sober he is welcome at my house anytime, our finances are completely separate also). Despite my efforts to keep the communication between us open and honest he will still try to lie to me that he has not had a drink when it is so obvious that he has. I find this very frustrating as in my eyes he has no need at all to lie to me but he still does!!! GRRRRRRRRRR!
I have to let it go and accept this behaviour as a symptom of his disease.
Alcoholics lie. My own A lies about drinking. Swears he has had nothing to drink while trying to stand up, and with breath that could knock me down from across the room!!! My A is sober now; has been for a year or more. No lies when he is sober, but let him have one drink, and the lies begin. I think they actually expect us to believe them and not our lying eyes!! Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
At the moment my partner has not been drinking as far as I know for 1 month. He was fine last night. Went to bed after he came out of the bathroom it was as if he was drunk. He doesn't really smell of alcohol but there is something there I cannot put my finger on. He just turns on a sixpence. He gets angry argumentative and agressive. He doesn't realise what he is doing. When you look at his eyes all you see is hatred. Then he turns round and says why don't you care anymore. I do care and have told him this but when he gets like this he doesn't know what he is doing. He keeps saying it is hard but it's certainly hard for us relatives and partners. I was due to arrangement a day out 28th June for his birthday and now don't know what to do. I don't want to go and he be like this. How does everone else cope in these situations.
Alcoholics lie - it's part of their own circle of guilt. For many it isnt lying to us as much as lying to themselves. If they can convince themselves they aren't drinking or using they feel better - but ultimately they know their own lies don't work.
As for altered behaviors in sobriety - they still happen sometimes. For some A's until they really get serious about recovery they continue the same behaviors - just dry. My husband is dry - but does one hell of a Jeckyll & Hyde routine. I treat him the same as when he was active. I don't remind him of his behaviors, I don't acknowledge them as they are happening, and I just don't go there with him. It's not easy and I still slip but it can be done.
Once the A violates our trust it is so very hard to get it back and believe in them. However, I found that it is the disease that has violated the trust - not the person. If I can remember to keep them seperate then I can have a better life with the A's in my life.
Karen
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Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. Love you all!
Karen
I'll just repeat what to me is the most important thing from rtexas' post
"If he is not behaving in a way you find acceptable, does it matter if he is drinking or not? "
Keep the focus on you - what do you want, and, is it possible with the reality of what IS, right now? Too easy to say "If only he...." rather than "With what I have, right now, can I be happy, and if not, what can *I* do to make is possible?" Basing our own happiness on the actions of a person with a crazy disease is, well, crazy.
Thank you all for your comments. I arrived home from work yesterday feeling confused and sad. After spending some time on this board I felt hopeful and thankful that I am part of a group of honest, caring and strong individuals. I thank my HP for Al-Anon. I am reading The Lois Wilson Story and highly recommend it. There is such inspiration amongst all of you. Thank you!
