A little something that bothers me. - Al-Anon Family Group

Diva · ~*Service Worker*~

A little something that bothers me.

david62 · ~*Service Worker*~

Well there you go again! (((((Diva))))))

Making me think, and I havent even fully woke up yet!!!!

You are right of course, none of us are professionals, and even if some of us really do have a shingle hanging somewhere, its not outside the door to the al-anon room.

Giving advice comes natural to so many of us, and I have to really bite my tongue hard not to do so sometimes....I have had to learn that first off, I dont have to have an answer to everything that someone tells me, its okay not to know the answer. I have also learned that they dont always want or expect an answer. Sometimes people just want someone to listen to them.

And as to finding hiden meanings in the words of others, well, that is sure an easy thing to do when the words are written in a letter, or posted on a bulletin board such as this.

I remember once I received a letter from a very good friend (yes an actual handwritten one that came in the US Mail!!! remember those!!!

).

I read this letter, and I assigned this tone to the letter....though my friend said nothing about anything being wrong in his life in the letter, somehow it "felt" like it to me. And it made me really start to worry about him. I called him up and asked him what was wrong. He was a bit surprised and wanted to know what I meant. So I told him well you just sounded so sad in your letter. He said on the contrary, when I wrote that letter I was in an uncharacteristically great mood!! Having a wonderful day and was reminiscing about some of the fun times he and I had shared when we were in high school.

He then said something that I still remember him telling me (this was about 5 years ago) He said, "Isn't it funny how we sometimes assign a mood to the written word that is really a reflection of our own mood?"

That really was one of those "moments" for me! (Yeah I had some lessons from my HP even before al-anon!!...lol)

And I had to look at what he said, and look at myself..and I knew he was right. It had been me that was down.

I went back and reread his letter after I got off the phone and applied the mood he had just been in with me on the phone and it was amazing how that letter changed for me!

Anyway, thanks for posting my friend!!

You have helped me start the day smiling now, thinking about my friends and my clever HP!!

Yours in recovery,
David

Dolphin123 · ~*Service Worker*~

Diva,

What a good topic to start.

I know for me, I try not to give advice. I share on what I may have done if I have ever been in the same situation or a situatuon close to it. Sometimes I wonder if I am overstepping that line between advice and ESH. What worked for me may not work with someone else. So is it ESH or is it advice? Is it ESH if you have no expectations of the person to do as you shared?

I know I am too sick to give advice , and feel really uncomfortable if I am asked for it. But sharing here has never made me uncomfortable. I just say what comes to heart and then leave it at that. I am to busy trying to work on me to try to fix someone else.

Thanks Diva, I am looking forward to how others respond to your post.

Hehe, thanks for getting my brain working this morning

Much Love,

mebjk · Senior Member

Dear Diva,
This is a good topic. I think it is easy for most of us to jump into giving advice. That is simply part of our illness. When I am thinking clearly, though, it really makes sense that I certainly don't know what is good for another person, not even for myself most of the time! When I listen to conversations now, after being in recovery meetings for so many years, I see how often we interrupt each other when we hear someone say: "I feel so badly about..." or whatever. It's such a way of cutting off my own feelings!
The best ESP I can give anyone here is to go to meetings, get a sponsor, and work the STeps. That is the time-honored wisdom of Alanon. We each have our own journey, but that is the way recovery works. It takes work. Many of the things on the boards here are things that need to be said, to break the isolation, but they really don't need a response, in a way. What I'm thinking is that they need to be put out there for the health of the person who shares, but they don't need a response from someone who's "had the same experience." All of our experiences are our own, for our own journey. On the board, we seem to get into giving advice much more than would be done in a face to face meeting.
Thanks again for the topic.
Blessings to you in your recovery,
mebjk

Ria · Senior Member

Hi Diva, I'm replying as I too am now concerned. I'm hoping that I am not part of the reason you felt the need to post. I'm not taking it personally but earlier today I posted in reply to a newcomer and as part of that reply said "we don't give advice", therefore it's particularly relevant to me. In the title of the newcomers post it specifically mentioned 'relationship advice'. I was told (and think I read it somewhere in our literature) that in Al-Anon we don't give advice because we are not professionals but that we can/do make suggestions and share our experience, strength and hope. I was also told that we should explain to newcomers what the fellowship is about and how the program may help them. I have always been encouraged to recommend literature and meetings etc. I have been passing on what was given to me. I honestly believed it was 'Al-Anon policy' not to give advice. If I am mistaken in this or have said something wrong/inappropriate, please pm me as I would hate to inadvertently damage the fellowship in any way or cause disharmony. I certainly am not an expert on anything, including my own recovery. I hope that it is not my reply you are referring to because if I have come across this way something has gone dreadfully wrong.

I have not been at MIP long myself and believe here on-line that there are some differences which are not yet entirely clear to me. I did read at the top of the board that this 'is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level'.

As this is an honest program, I personally try to say what I mean (though I may not always say it well) and do not assign any hidden meanings. Of course, I am not responsible for how someone interprets what I've said. I myself wasted a great deal of energy trying to read-between-the-lines while dealing with dysfunction and part of the safety for me in Al-Anon and here is that I no longer need to. If one member feels a need to comment on another members statements then I feel they should speak directly to them.

I cannot comment on your sentence about osmosis and the 'shingle' as to be perfectly truthful, I don't understand it. Is it an American expression? I have never heard it. I think the gist of it though is that none of us are professionals.

Thank you for posting and if you could clarify whether this is in response to something I've said I would very much welcome the opportunity to clear it up. I can always edit/delete my post if it is inappropriate or sending the wrong message. I am trying not to be sensitive and assume it is me but as I did say "we don't give advice" I feel quite distressed just wondering.

With love in the fellowship, x Maria x

rtexas · ~*Service Worker*~

((((Diva))))

Thanks for sharing this. For me... I have spent the last 5 or 6 years with no feeling that my input was appreciated, or wanted at all. It is easy for me to suddenly be in this loving, sharing environment and get carried away.

Thanks for reminding me that we are here to support each other and not fix each other.

Take care everyone!

kspear · Veteran Member

Diva,

Thanks for the topic. Like Ria, I was of course thinking it was "me" being addressed. (The self-centeredness certainly is not cured in me yet...I'm still an egomaniac with an inferiority complex at times...in other words, it's all about me and it's all bad!)

But I know for me, when I say it's not my place to give advice, it's because so frequently I see people asking for advice. I do tend to share what's been my experience with anything that might be similar and what I have found to work for me. I was told early on that's the point of the fellowship - we share our experience, strength and hope. When I have not had any experience in a sitution or something similar, I tend to stay quiet.

Sometimes, though, even though it may not be a similar situation, it reminds me of something or touches on something in me, and usually I need to share that. Usually it's not even necessarily for the benefit of the original poster (or person sharing when in a f2f meeting). Sometimes I just need to hear myself speak it out loud or see it in black and white as the case may be.

Sometimes it does seem to be a fine line between sharing ESH and counseling. I've found the main difference is that when I am sharing ESH, it's when I'm sharing what has happened with me in my life and what has worked for me. If I'm overstepping the bounds into "counseling" I tend to slip into "YOU" language - you should, it would help you, etc.

I know that I can be very passionate about this program, it has offered me so much over the years, both through AA and most recently through Alanon. My life has certainly gotten much better and I've picked up a ton of great tools for living. Maybe sometimes my passion comes through as overbearing at times. But I know what has worked for me and I've got no problem sharing it. If others hadn't shared with me, I'd have never have heard it.

Karen

Jennifer · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello Diva & All

I was going to pass on replying to this post, which is why I decided I better reply LOL. Like some of the other replies here my first thought was uhoh what did I write? Not so much because I think if something is wrong I did it, because I have a hard time replying to posts. I am fairly new to Alanon and am sometimes unsure of what crosses the line between sharing my experiences and what is offering advice. The replies I get to my posts are wonderful, I look at the experiences shared as advice in it's own way, advice from people I admire on how to be happy, not meddlesome or demeaning. I have not encountered anyone telling me what to do or why I am the way I am, or even why my situation is this or that way. I do try to follow their examples of ESH as I reply to others. Knowing myself to be an overanalyzer, and to ramble on once I do start typing I could very easily fall into that unintentionally. So if I do cross that line ... will somebody give me a friendly kick in the behind? Thanks for sharing Diva.

Jennifer

Diva · ~*Service Worker*~

I sincerely thank all of you who responded. My post was not aimed at anyone in particular; rather the product of a thought I had that I wanted to pose in the form of a questioning post. Keeping our minds sharp and active.

I send best warm regards to all of you, Diva

jrtjosey · ~*Service Worker*~

I think it is hard not to make our replies not sound like advice. We need to preface this page with these are only the thoughts and ideas of the members and are not constitiuted to be professioinal help.

Josey

debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Gads Diva now I had to go back and read my responses to make sure I did not sound bossy and like I was giving advice...lol lol

I do try very hard to share my experience and be supportive. I sure don't like the, ya should do this or that. Nothing drives me crazier than someone telling me what to do.

rrrrrrr I might say, :I invite you to maybe start a journal, or maybe write to your A but not give it to him." These are things that helped me. Is this advice?

I guess when ya judge, say should, should not, that is not cool.

Anyhow Ms. always thinken, glad you brought this up, even though now I gotta go back the last few years of the message board and make sure I did not give advice...hehe

oh and next time "you" SHOULD....hugs hugs hugs

love,debilyn

Diva · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks kiddies. It's not the advice-giving that I abhor. I am an advice giver myself, and a pretty good one at that. What I detest is the analyzing of each and every word a person says. Nothing is taken at face value, but hidden meanings are assigned to nearly every remark. When you analyze, you go beyond the bounds. ESH is one thing, but attempting to get into a person's mind is quite another. Not everyone does this, of course, but I think none of us are qualified to decide what another person is thinking. Leave that to the therapists. That's what they are paid for. I am not going to go so far as to say that they are all qualified either...*sigh*

Love to all, Diva

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.