The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
MIP is not CAL approved. In all my time here members have used the board to vent. Some get a bit controlling about it on occasion; but generally we can all take, leave and bypass. I think MIP would have a very low membership if it attempted to be a rigid recovery space when that gap is already filled online.
Debb, you are fine! I think our goal in recovery is to gradually move away from focusing on the alcoholic and focus more on ourselves -- but that isn't easy! It's a learning process. It takes time and work. That's why we have 12 steps (not 1 step) -- and in the meantime, or when a crisis happens, we need to be able to tell someone about what's been going on in our lives! So, as my sponsor once said to me -- Be Gentle on You ... and Keep Coming Back
There are suggestions not rules
There is a big difference. I have been hauled over the coals in the past by talking about a trigger.
There was no.acknowledgement of complex PTSD.
Moreover there was no.acknowledgement of triggers. Neither was there any acknowledgement of being in fight/flight mode
Somehow on command I was supposed to supersede all those mandate
The only mandate here is to treat every person witness ok ct. Some people are highly resistant
Maresie
Airing the dirty laundry. I like how Freetime explained it. I'm sure most newcomers do it; I know I did as I was raving angry by the time I came in. Once the anger subsided and the will to improve grew, the focus on self naturally arose. But I'd be a total liar if i denied the appeal of the MIP board is that it's more relaxed. I like reading people's stories and sharing my own because I feel truly like it's a family; inclusive of a little laundry from time to time.
It comes under the principle of anonymity. Although it is presupposed that my qualifier is alcoholic or such I do not speak to it or of it just as I don't to anyone outside of the program. Alcoholism was and still is costly to the alcoholic and or addict as it could cost them in many areas such as jobs and legal standing and more. It affects the spouse and family like wise especially if the news is spread openly.
I had a wild reputation because of the disease until it stopped being an issuel
I worked for the CHiPS on the communications level and one night an officer asked me for information about a car and driver he has pulled over on the highway for drunk driving and sure enough it was my qualifier. When he asked for confirmation I told him "The subject is known to me and I could confirm his need after shift". That is all that was needed I determined and kept her anonymity. It comes under the subject of "service" also and it works.
She was pulled over because she was drunk driving not because she was alcoholic/addict.
Good question. "Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our perspective...ever reminding ourselved to place principles above personalities" (((Hugs)))
If we can not come to the safe place and vent our anxieties and our frustrations and our fears, where can we go? I dont see ever any posts from you that would even remotely cross any lines. As long as we are keeping the focus on our recovery and what can we do, what is the next best thing we can do to take care of ourselves, however we work our program, if the goal is to give up the resentment and bitterness is, who cares how we get there it is a very personal Journey and if I didnt have this group to vent about the alcoholics, I would still be resenting them which I do not anymore because I was able to safely come here and be safe and be supported in my venting and sorting things out and coming to terms that alcoholism is a disease and that these people did not go to bed at night is children and pray to be alcoholics and a slave to the drink. That said, I try to stick with the steps and the slogans and the traditions but there are times when I need to just vent and get my anger and frustration out and as long as I am keeping a focus on me and my issue and not trying to tell others what to do, I feel like I am in safe territory. Its not like we are giving their names and addresses out to the public, we are just talking about our alcoholics and how they can be so frustrating
We have to have some safe place to discharge our emotions and to sort things out and this place has been my safe haven and as I said in another post, this safe place enabled me to not only forgive my mom but to love her and honor her as a sweet and loving human being who really was under the worst of conditions but still managed to be a good mom when we were in a time of need. I never could have arrived at that kind of forgiveness and love for her if I did not have this place to have discharged and allowed myself to feel the anger and resentment and frustrations to get them out so I could finally released them and now I look back at her with love and on her as she was his victim to and the only way she could cope with living with such a monster was to numb herself with the alcohol
Thank you Mamalioness. I obsessed all night wondering what on earth I was going to do when I saw this question yesterday. I lived in fear, shame and resentment for years and it wasn't until I stumbled on this board I felt hope to become a feeling being. I was prompted into positive action when I read member's posts around their FEELINGS and felt less guarded about secrets. I stopped sharing with friends about my AH (for his dignity and mine). But here, the specifics in a situation helped me to identify, be compassionate towards my spouse, and have feelings for other members when they hurt. I rarely cry, and when I tear up for a member, I feel human. Lastly, my stepmother and I have been on regular speaking terms. I still resented her for issues dating back 40 years. I get she disciplined me corporal style because her parents and nuns at boarding school did things that way. I have lost my biological parents, and being an only child, she is an important part of my past. Even though she made amends to me 30 years ago, I was still bitter. This board helped me finally let go compared to therapy which just analyzed it. With Al-Anon tools, MIP, I focus on self and TAKE action. Phew...feel better now...Have a great day.
I know I'm making progress when I'm posting about myself and focusing on myself. I also know I'm slipping when I don't.
That being said, posting and sharing my struggles with AH and getting ESH helps me learn and grow. I probably wouldn't come here if that was prohibited. It's important to me to be able to do so.
Debb - I am just now seeing this - I must have missed it yesterday! I readily admit I am more 'old school' so shy away from outside topics, off-topics and the other recovery programs -- most of the time. I remember my sponsor saying to me (over and over and over and over again) - I hear that HE did 'this'. Clearly it angered, hurt, bothered, _______ you - I want to hear how and what you are feeling and explore why instead of what he did.
What this taught me is that he (and others) are going to disappoint me, cross me, anger me and more. I have a choice how I allow it to affect me (or not), consume brain space/time (or not), etc. This caused me to do a whole lot of searching how to share how I felt (in meetings and here) without throwing blame/shame towards my A(s).
It helped me greatly to own my processing and separate my processing, emotions and tool use from the disease/diseased. I spent so much time looking for the root cause of why I felt as I felt instead of determining if how I felt and personalized others' words and actions was healthy/productive than I care to admit. And, I had this perpetual need/want to JADE all of 'it' until I felt better.
It's true that MIP is not official Al-Anon. It's also true that many/most Al-Anon meetings have specific guidelines. As far as I'm concerned, speaking freely here is a choice as well as venting. We are have a choice to read (or not), respond (or not) and scroll along. I respect that many have no other outlet, meetings, etc. and this is 'it'. I am blessed to have other outlets so try to keep my focus here on recovery vs. outside topics/issues. This is just me being me!
As a moderator, I follow Betty's wishes to this day - only edit cursing and remove spam posts. If a member contacts me as a moderator vs. a member concerned about another's posts, I do the best I can to find peace. This has not happened in a long, long while - for which I am grateful. Members have asked for posts to be removed, which we've obliged. I have mixed feelings about this - if someone takes the time to respond to another, I hate to see the ESH 'go away' yet the original poster has that authority as of now.
My personal experience is the more I can focus on me and not other people, places and things, the better I feel. When I embrace that nobody or nothing can steal my joy, serenity, etc. unless I consent, I'm leaning towards the healthier side of me. Recovery suggests we are to share our experience, strength and hope with each other and use our tools to change out attitudes/outlooks while working the steps of recovery. How we do that - no perfect pattern, method or way!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Jerry F: that is of course such a valid issue. An important one too. I take for granted the anonymity of online identity though I do recall around ten years ago a member here who had used their real name and the qualifiers family discovered it and there were some harassment issues. A bit of a side issue to the main topic but does still illustrate the wider wisdom of sticking with the programme. Overall though a newcomer can't know what they don't know until they do so it's a good thread. I think MIP dies very well to navigate each right thing to do as it arises.
I personally think it's a good thing if a member shares a specific situation and asks for ESH. Wanting to read how others have handled similar situations. That's how we learn,grow and change(well at least that's how I do).
I think that's way different than a member talking bad about or belittling their qualifier, or all A's in general. I don't think that's appropriate.( I possibly may have done that myself when I first got here)
I just want to say that when in Al anon we talk about focus on yourself. For many.of us ws struggle to work.out where the self is. We are so enmeshed with the family of origin and of course the qualifier. Therefore for some people the self is a foreign concept
In addition I do not live on.s remote island. Other people's actions most certainly have an affect on me. In the case of an alcoholic household the chaos cam be immense. Furthermore while it is difficult for others to understand triggers can be very difficult to unearth and sort out
There is a time and place for everything. I have gone to al anon meetings in many settings. For many people it is their one chance to vent about family obligations. The fall out front alcoholism
I really apologize if any member here felt that certain topics were off limits. I have not seen that. This is a safe welcoming venue for all those who are affected by alcoholism
Maresie, I appreciate the insight that "for some people the self is a foreign concept." That was true for me during part of my life, so I can absolutely understand someone being in that place. This is a great discussion that has helped my understanding.
That is also a very valid point about not knowing the concept of self. I love this group. ((((((MIP)))))) You know how we sometimes talk about relapse on our side of the programme? I am so very used to assuming everybody elses role, which mothering a still young brood neccesarily entails for an amount of time, that I usually am not aware of myself becoming enmeshed until I am way entangled. As part of divorcing, some of the memories I have of being enmeshed have caused me a shame and embarrasment at recognising it as such. Shame is also a hangover of this family disease. I guess Im now feeling a lot better reading through everybodies input because it makes me stop and think, slowly and thoughtfully. I start to feel okay again. It is normal to revisit some of those old though feel respond patterns. It is progress to be able to switch into recovery gear and forgive ones self first and foremost and take the new step instead. Feeling very grateful to be here right now.
The subject and issue of anonymity for me came from the early wisdoms of Bill and Doctor Bob...the AA founders. When I got into that understanding and read the experiences that explained that alcoholism was a moral issue and that the alcoholic was "less than" of a human being negatively affecting all that they touched; society, jobs, family and more and justifications for them to be "set aside", separated from the "normal" blessings people usually earned I became very protective of my own alcoholic/addict's status and never mentioned the disease in connection to her including many behaviors justified by drinking and drugging.
I spoke about the confidentials only with my sponsor in the program and my therapist in treatment. She had responsibilities that needed shelter from the lack of iinconsiderate talk.
It didn't support either her or my recovery by "talking story" openly about "the problem" we lived with and would only make it worse with more people talking about it.
Compassion, empathy, and other emotions were much more supportive....and still are.
Letting go and lettng God is much more supportive with the alcoholic addict and the family etc.
For me, I believe that the power and wisdom comes from Alanon, not necessarily from what I or someone in the program thinks is a great idea. My own best thinking and that of most of those who come to Alanon took us to a place of desperation. Often, my instincts are selfish and off base. The value of turning to the literature is that it steers us away from 'us' and toward spiritual recovery.
The literature acknowledges that newcomers may tend to hit the 'replay' button more heavily early in recovery, but is pretty clear on why it is suggested that we avoid this and help the newcomer to do the same. There are plenty of groups and venues where complaining about what someone else has done to us is common, even encouraged. Alanon is not such a place.
Alanon is a place for those who want to recover and are willing to do what is suggested in order to find the serenity and peace that is promised. The alcoholic or anyone else for that matter, is not the problem, nor is what they may have done. We are the problem, our thoughts, perceptions and actions are what keep us in a state of insanity.
There can be a release from 'venting' about someone else's actions, possibly along with a sense that we were justified in our own possibly unhealthy reaction. Alanon acknowledges that we aim for progress not perfection, that we must not be too hard on ourselves, but also asks us to keep the focus on ourselves. It also suggests that none of us are qualified to give advice or tell anyone else that what they are doing or not doing is 'ok'.
What is legally or socially allowed and what is best for us are not always the same. There are reasons for the suggestions in AlAnon: they work. The program works when we work it. I am very grateful for that, because I certainly wasn't successful on my own
__________________
Paul
"...when we try to control others, we lose the ability to manage our own lives." - Paths to Recovery
Back to the top? I read and read this subject as anonymity which was explained to me as using my wife's name including her families last name in association with "my Alcoholic" When and If I did that I opened up the fact that she and they and I (us) were affected by a chosen condition which negatively affected olurselves and others; like it or not, at major cost. We would loose standing, jobs, because we were to blame. My alcoholic addict also inhereited the other characteristics associated with alcoholic and drug addicts. Her chances for success in our society became impossible and the family was anchored firmly to the condition.
Yes my wife was alcoholic/addict and a very valueable woman when our disease was in submission.
She wasn't a bad person and neighter was her family...We were sick until we got well. "Anonymity is the basis of all our traditions ever reminding us to practice principle above personaliity"....Mahalo for your love and support.
I read this topic as a newcomer not knowing how the board rolls. Given enough time, actual recovery emerges with less of a focus on the poor me's (though not always) and more of a what's my role in this?. We seem to be ok organically growing, though as I have said in a similar discussion that is in my view intrinsically linked to the strong recovery within the group and it's contributors. I have tremendous faith in lived recoveries and the 12th step.
In catching up on posts on the board I'm not really sure what the consensus is here. It sounds as if it's not really ok to talk about our qualifiers anymore or that maybe it's frowned upon?
I'm gonna keep posting and sharing in the way I normally do. If I'm seeking ESH on a particular situation I will share what that situation is. That's how I learn and grow and how am I supposed to get what I need without opening up and being honest? To me that would be the same as going to the doctor in severe pain without sharing any details of where,how,etc. It wouldn't be very helpful to just say hey doc,I'm in severe pain can you help me or fix me.
As long as I'm not giving personal details,names,addresses,etc I see nothing wrong with it. As long as I'm not making blanket statements like all A's are idiots, liars,etc I see nothing wrong with it. And as long as I'm not calling my qualifier(s) names,like a jerk,an as# ,whatever,what's the harm?
SF - there is no right/wrong way to work this program and seek peace and serenity. My understanding is that our program suggests we keep the focus on us solely to aid our own recovery. I have had moments where it felt hard to explain what I was feeling without detailing 'what happened'. What I've discovered through practice and a good sponsor is that 'what happened' isn't the point at all - it's how I reacted to it and how this disease, when it rises up in another, affects me, my thinking, feelings, etc.
It was really easy for me to blame the A(s) in my life for my problems, pain and suffering. My sponsor gently suggested over and over and over again that they are who they are, they will do what they do and it is I who has the power to be/do/act differently. Speaking for myself only, over time, I got really tired of allowing another to get me to 'react' and 'dance again'. I felt often that I had an emotional hangover and felt I was the one loosing sleep, serenity, etc. over 'what happened'. Al-Anon has gifted me with a new set of tools to truly explore the 'what happened' and how it truly affected/s me.
So, do what you need to do. Share as you need to share. I often find release just sharing -- before another even responds! As I've grown in this program, and practice these tools, how I share changes too. If you were to read your shares from start to now, I suspect you'd see changes too. Keep doing what you're doing - it looks great on you!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
When it comes to our spiritual journey of recovery in AlAnon, it is for each to decide the path, speed, and, well, everything. Consensus with others may or may not be what takes me there.
Alanon offers suggestions that we may not understand, especially early on, and we are under no obligation to follow. Nor does anyone else have the right or knowledge to tell us what we should or should not do, or whether we are doing the 'right' thing or not, no matter how long they've been in the program. None of us know always what is best for ourselves, and certainly not for others.
On this topic, rather than add a personal opinion, I would share a few program pages and topics that helped guide me in this area:
In Alanon I have heard the phrase 'it works when we work it', and I have found that I often need to first reference the program literature to see firsthand the guidance and suggestions to know how to do that. Seeking that as my first source rather than someone else's interpretation or the consensus of a particular group has always delivered good results.
Grateful for the wisdom and reminders of the program
__________________
Paul
"...when we try to control others, we lose the ability to manage our own lives." - Paths to Recovery
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