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I had one of those week moments last night where I reached out to my A husband in hopes that he would understand how I was feeling about our situation. Instead, he was cold distant and rude. For some reason this wrecked me. I haven't slept or eaten since. I just can't understand the lack of emotions. He is insisting this is a relationship problem between us and not a drinking problem. I insist that it is both, but the drinking has been effecting every area of my life. For some reason he can't see that and doesn't want to reach out for help. Instead he is blaming me for everything and is insisting on separating at the end of next month when our lease is up. I am terrified because I have no job and am finishing school next week. I have never lived alone, but I certainly don't deserve to live the way I have been living with him. This is all too much for me to digest with everything else going on in my life. I don't have an easy life anyway.
I feel that my a's decision to separate puts him in total control when I am the one who has a problem with his drinking. I was the one pushing this issue. You would think that you would try to solve the problem and not push away the one non-alcoholic friend you have.
I just can't figure out why he has tried to stop drinking if I am so wrong. He only stopped not after my nagging, but after my therapist told him he had a problem.
He has been dry for about 3 weeks. The only changes are that he isn't waking me up and is around more often -- not so great since since I don't like being around him now. He is sending me mixed signals like wanting to spend time with me or buying a little gift for my mom. This behavior makes it worse for me to accept we are separating. Plus, I see little glimmers of the person I love.
My therapist said he need to get into a program and that hopefully in one year of sobriety he will see all that you have done. I just can't imagine what would push him into a program. It is certainly not me!
Hearing that it takes at least a year for an a's behavior/brain to change once they are in recovery seems like forever. I am just fearful that if he does want to get together after we separate, I won't want to enter back into the pain even if he is in recovery. This makes me sad. Plus, how can I live a life worried if he will start drinking again or worried if our children will be alcoholics. So many people in his family are alcoholics. I also feel sad that he can't feel that depth of pain I feel over all this and I can't understand why he doesn't.
It is so hard to have hope right now -- hope for me, hope for him, hope for us. I know everyone keeps saying work on yourself, but it is hard to do when you have nothing left to give even yourself. I keep trying to imagine my life in the future, but it is so hard because we have been together for 13 years and I am only 31. All my dreams and hopes involved him in some way. I guess I just need to hear that the pain will end and that things do get better. Right now I just don't know how that is possible.
(((sunny)))- how inconsiderate of him to mess things up for you right before school is done. Not surprising. they love to suck the joy out of our happiness and success. Focus on your school, figure out a plan if he does leave and let him fly if he needs to. Kind of sounds like he is ambivalent. You will be ok. one day at a time friend. Jeanne
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In the long run the pessimist may be proved right, but the optimist has a better time on the trip.- Daniel L. Reardon
Yup, I heard it all...it was all my fault...drinking was NOT the problem, it was relationship problems...it was my attitude problem...we just are NOT working out...NEVER his alcoholism.
I knew it was not true, but nothing would convince him otherwise.
My husband too stopped drinking when he got fed up with my "attitude problem" (me telling him his drinking was a problem), as he wanted to "prove" to me that his drinking was NOT the problem. So, to make a self fulfilling prophecy (being right is more important to most alcoholics than ANYTHING else, like morality, scruples, honesty, etc.) he stopped drinking and became and absolute horrible jerk.
He became such a jerk I hoped he started drinking again...and drank until he dropped dead...hopefully sooner rather than later.
He admitted that he stopped drinking also to "clear his head" to plan his revenge on me for daring to "slander" him and call him an alcoholic, SIGH.
Well, he began acting like a monstor to make a long story short. He talked lots of junk about leaving me, etc. but in the end could not.
Sunny, no matter what junk that jerk talks to jerk my chain he can't seem to leave. Sure he has moved out for months at a time sometimes, but has never taken the step to file for a divorce or separation. His leaving is only to "teach me a lesson" or something else dumb like that.
We ended up getting back together, but for purely financial reasons. I have to be honest and say that his shenanigans and alcholism have taken such a toll on our marriage that there is really little left. I used to really love him and used to not imagine my life without him...now I fantasize about it...
The last separation was two years ago. Now he has progressed in his alcoholism enough so that he can no longer deny that it has caused problems. We are around 40, so older than you and your mate, so the progression is further along.
For the first time in more than a decade of marriage he lets me state that his alcholism has caused damage to the marriage. I will list the time he urinated into the fridge drawer, urinated on the sofa, urinated on the floor, urinated on our mattress so often our whole bedroom smelled like a catbox and I made him buy a new one. How can you deny that would effect a marriage? First we argued for months on throwing the mattress out and buying a new one. I slept on our chaise lounge and my knees still hurt from more than a YEAR sleeping with my knees bent. He slept in his own pee...not very sexy is it?
I kept threatening to put the pee mattress out on the curb for trash pickup. Daughter did not want anyone to think it was hers, so she was going to put a note on it saying it was her Dad's (LOL), although he did not think this was funny. We hit a stalemate...a way of life in our marriage. Months went by with the pee mattress stinking up my bedroom...I bought a closet rod and put it in the living room so my work clothes would not smell like catbox...
How can you deny this did not damage the marriage?
Finally he took the mattress to the dump. Then refused to buy another one...for more than a year...again...how can you say this did not damage a marriage? That he peed and destroyed our mattress, then refused to buy a new one and I slept on the chaise lounge for a year while he slept on a camping cot in his room?
Then we argued over who would buy what. The pee in the mattress had sort of seeped into the wood bed frame and it too stunk like pee. Intolerable for me to sleep in a bedroom that smells like a flophouse. I finally bought a new bed, as I was going to anyway when I bought a new furniture set for my bedroom. He still refused to buy a new mattress, saying I made him throw out a "perfectly good one" so I should foot the bill for the new one. I am not very good at enabling, it is a matter of prinipal for me. I bought a cot and stretched it out inside of the empty bed frame and slept on that for almost another whole year...alone...until the camping cot he was sleeping on in his room started hurting his back and he finally bought a mattress...more than TWO YEARS later. Once again...how can you deny that this damaged our marriage?
This is the story of our marriage. Stalemates...I refuse to clean up after him and his drinking, or pick up the pieces afterwards...and he refuses to be responsible to clean up what he ruins. So, we live with no mattress, bed...etc. until one of us (usually me as I am the one who wants a normal life) does something about it.
I don't know how your relationship will turn out, but if you guys get back together you will probably start to have similar experiences. When the alcholism gets so bad that normal life becomes so dysfunctional even the alcoholic can no longer stay in denial. It was no longer "my mouth" as he called it to show him evidence. Sure, you can try and dismiss a "nagging wife" (his words for anytime I expressed my feeligns and they were not that he was the best thing since sliced bread) but can you explain away a pee mattress? Sleeping apart for two years on camping cots in separate rooms due to his pee problems? And this was when we were around 35...when we should have been having an active and healthy marriage, not sleeping in separate rooms in camping cots. It is a good thing I am a devout christian and did not cheat on him...although the thought did cross my mind...and he denies that all of this nightmare damaged our marriage?
Have you heard of that book "Getting Them Sober"? In it is a chapter about how alcoholics are good at tantrums and blustering, etc. but it is really really hard to get rid of an alcoholic permantly. They get mad and make threats and eve move out temporarily, but are often back...wether you want them or not. To hear my husband talk I would never think that was true, but in hindsight I see it IS true. That used to be a comfort to me...now I am not so sure.
My husband does that stuff to me too...always leaves when I am laid off or between jobs...anything to put the screws to me a little tighter to get me back for "daring to call him an alcoholic". Then he tries to stop drinking to prove me a slanderer...SIGH...how sick I am of all of it.
You know I started to realize that his 'announcing" his separation plans for the future dates was just to jerk my chain. I started saying to him "be a MAN and move out if you want to, you don't need to announce it...you can bet that when I am ready to leave I won't run my mouth about it, but will take action and DO IT...you will hear about it from my lawyer...". I mean every word too.
Usually people who plan to do...DO...and people having tantrums...TALK.
I know you say your lease is up...start making plans to look for an apartment that it will be tough for him to move back into with you. You say you are in college? GREAT!!! That is a great place to hook up with a roomate. My college had a roomate intro service, they would match people looking for roomates. Just wait and see what your mate does when you start making plans that won't easily include him. He is betting on you being his doormat, and beck and call. He can TRY to live without you, but is probably counting on coming back to you if he does not like it on his own, and that you will welcome him back.
That is the nature of the alcholic...everyone exists in their lives to serve their needs.
I hope me sharing my ESH helps. I have been there...I feel for you...the best thing I did was develop a backbone. When I acted like a heartbroken wife so in love with her husband that I could hardly live without him, he treated me like dirt under his feet. The more love I expressed for him, the more I tried to work things out, the more I tried to keep things going, the more he despised me and laughed at me being heartbroken and sneered with delight at my suffering while he yanked my chain and thought up new ways to torment me with his threats and words.
Thanks for sharing with me. I really need to hear other's perspectives and experiences. It is scary to think it could get worse and yet I know it already has. The problem is my husband is very functioning on many levels, but I know that too will fade. He uses his successess as a way to make me feel that his drinking is not a problem. No wife wants her husband to come home drunk and slurring their words 4-5 nights every week. He kicks while he sleeps, talks and sometimes sleepwalks into things. He has me on edge all the time with worry. He comes home whenever he wants and then if I approach him he blames it on the relationship. There is no excuse for drinking that much. I would say that this extreme behavior has been going on for 3 years, but the drinking has really been a problem since the beginning if I really think about it.
He did admit to my counselor that he drank too much and needed to not drink so much. I feel that if he really thought he had a problem he would get help. It is hard to believe his sobriety is anything more than an "I told you so." The latest is a bookmark he clearly left on my computer of an article for detaching. How insulting!!
I am barely hanging in there. I don't know how I will get through, but I know I deserve more than this. I am so surprised how scared I am.
One thing I am scared about is that I am starting to desire having a family and I am terrified that I am too late. I know people have children into their 40's, but I am definitely at a critcal age. The thought of being able to find someone else, marry and then have kids in time seems so overwhelming. Yet, I am so glad that there are no children involved here. I always thought that we would have them together. It is hard to see those dreams go up in flames.
I have to believe there is a reason for everything. If I didn't, then I couldn't survive the pain this has put me through.
I would love to hear some success stories from people who have left.
Sunny, I just read what you wrote and have to let you know that you are taking on WAY too much. You sound like me, LOL, I too do that, think in terms of the long run. When my husband was planning on leaving me two years ago I too was thinking I was too old to find anyone else, SIGH, and was doubly heartbroken, thinking I would die alone and loney, LOL. Then old boyfriends and new guys started coming out of the woodwork, LOL. I was 40 and did not expect it. I took my daugther to the Cleveland Clinic and a DOCTOR approached me in the lobby and asked me if I was married and wanted to talk to me, LOL, never underestimate yourself.
You are only 31...well lots of woman have babies into their early forties. My Mom had my little brother when she was forty, and when I had my daughter there was a woman there giving birth (naturally, without treatment, it was a menopause accident baby) at age 48! Her other kids were in college.
You have at least a decade...that is plenty of time.
Just concentrate on one day at a time...what is your most pressing problem right now? I would say if your lease is up at the end of the month that would be finding a place to live and a roomate to share expenses if you need time to get back on your feet.
I had to laugh at what you said about that bookmark your husband left you on detaching...boy have I been there too only I had to laugh at the irony of behavior like that. I could not help it, it was such a LAME attempt to shift blame that it was funny.
But then, I was the mother of a teenager at the time and the behavior was just OH SO FAMILIAR, LOL, that the irony struck me as hilarious.
Don't let him get to you, rise above it.
Hope you find a place to live that makes you happy.
We are not suppose to give advice in Alanon but only our ESH. I was scared too when my A moved out. I had spent 31 years married and 22 years with kids. And here it is a year later and I am doing ok with the help of friends and family. Try to separate the issues ie finances, chores, drinking, etc. and deal with them one at a time. It might look more doable. You deserve better but that doesn't mean it will be easy. Everyone's situation is different. And by the way I had my sons at 33, 35, and 38 years old so there is time.
Thanks everyone. I really needed to hear from you. I cried nonstop yesterday -- didn't eat or sleep. I dropped so much weight and I am already skinny. Now I have to go to class and I feel like I can't move. I know this is killing me. He seems to be fine just walking around like nothing is wrong. How could you be a normal human being and not be devastated over this? I guess it is easy for him to shift the blame because he has somehow convinced himself that he has been doing so much for me. In some ways he has but no more than a husband should and in fact much less than a husband should. The breakup fight was me telling him that all the little things he does don't make up for the larger issue of the drinking and his behaviour as a result of the drinking. He told me that the argument was soul crushing. I see now that the reason he felt that way was because I was pointing out the truth and he couldn't handle it.
I guess only time will help me heal and put this in perspective. People keep telling me that there will be plenty of others.
Sunny, boy you sure have a lot on your plate! I cannot imagine going to school in the midst of all this, but you are doing it! Good for you!
I also know we are not supposed to give advice, but I'm going to! Just keep on coming here. I am fairly new, too, I hit bottom when my beloved A husband moved out for 7 weeks, after we have been fighting for over a year about stuff that happened that cannot be changed. Things that involved his alcoholism attitude, and my reaction to it. He had so much anger, the law was involved, etc. He even went to far as to leave dissolution papers on the kitchen table. I was devastated. I wanted to die. He always told me he hated me, wanted a divorce, I was worthless, etc. I too, could not understand why he couldn't see it with the alcohol! I have since learned that the A is not going to blame the alcohol, not in the beginning, anway. And your A is still very new at sobriety.
My A was court ordered to attend counseling for addiction, and AA. He goes, but he still drinks. Will go to a meeting, come home in a good mood, and down a 6 pack.
I found a lot of hope in this chatroom and board, and they kept telling me to go to Alanon. I finally went and have been to 4 meetings. I am reading a lot. "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews is excellent, and taught me so much. Her books (there are 4 in the series) are available on amazon or ebay. You may be able to find them in a bookstore, but I couldn't. Any of the Alanon books you can get your hands on will be very helpful. Check your local library, they probably have some.
I am slowly learning to take care of myself, let him take care of himself. To not worry so much. He did move back home a month ago. We have been getting along better than we have in over a year. Even though he is still drinking. I am learning that a lot that he says while drinking is just the disease talking. I am learniing to not let it hurt me, to not fight back with a drunk. I am learning to turn him over to God.
If you could have talked to me just a couple of months ago, you would not recognize me. I am so much better. I want to live, where I didn't before. I spent many hours here, and my healing began. Along with lots of tears, like you. Tears are healing, though it doesn't feel like it at the time. Be gentle with yourself.
Please keep coming back, and come to chat. You sound so upset, nervous and confused, like I was. So torn between knowing what to do, not wanting to live like that anymore, not seeing that there can be a better way. But there is a better life for you, even if you do stay, as I am, for today. My husband has had no more than 24 hours sobriety in years, but I still love him. And now he seems like his love for me has returned.
I learned through this program, that alcoholism is a disease that will do anything to protect itself. It is like an evil force has taken over our A's mind and body. To me, it is like being possessed, or something. We see the evil, and the mean ways, but we can still see a spark of the man we love. It is all very confusing.
I hope you keep coming back. When I finally decided I could be OK with him or without him (and he is the love of my life), one day he called and wanted to come back home. I had not even talked about my plans with him, but I had prayed a lot. And, for today, my prayers were answered. I pictured God holding my husband when he was not here for me to.
And good luck at school! That's terrific that you are doing that. (((Sunny)))))
Thanks so much Becky for the support. I really need that now. I am glad to hear about someone doing so much better. I guess it is hard for me since I am already emotionally spent since my mom is very sick, my grandfather just passed away and I am exhausted from many late nights at school. I should be excited that I finally found the career that I want for life and am graduating in a few days. Instead I am drowning in sorrow and hopelessness. If it wasn't for you all and my friends and family I couldn't possibly survive.
The problem is that I really can't see why I would stay except out of love, hope and understanding that he is sick. It is not the drinking that I couldn't forgive, but for what he is doing to me now and the fear that it will return. My therapist feels that it is highly likely that he will want to get back together after we separate. Maybe the separation is what he needs to realize that the problem is all his. I think in some ways he does realize the problem and some days he wants to hear me talk and tells me that he is listening very seriously to what I am saying. Other days he is so cold and heartless. I can't take the mixed signals. It is like he is insane. No one I tell can understand his behavior except my therapist who has dealt with these issues a lot.
My husband and I have been down this road 2 years ago when I was bitching all the time about his drinking, but I didn't realize the extent of the problem. I was obviously in partial denial. We had other circumstances causing stress in our lives also so I couldn't identify the exact problem. Plus, he is highly functioning and a genius so you can imagine that didn't help me identify where all my feelings and our problems were coming from. He twisted things around so much and I feel he really believed what he said about me giving nothing to the relationship and him giving everything. Yes he pays the bills right now, but I have given so much of my heart to him and this relationship. He doesn't realize a thing about his drinking except that it is not good. He doesn't know the agony and stress that he has put me through. He also doesn't realize that an alcoholic is basically having an affair with booze. You always feel last. How can that be good for a marriage not to mention the alcoholic behavior? At least now I have a diagnosis.
Another thing that is hard is that since he has stopped drinking this month, he hasn't seemed to change his mind on the moving out. I guess I hoped for a miracle. I guess I hoped that he would realize the error of his ways immediately. I keep hearing that it is too soon, but I don't know if I can wait for him or if I will be able to forgive him if he does return after I have started a new life.
Yes, I did read the book _Getting Them Sober_ It was a huge eye-opening experience for me. Frankly I was shocked at how it described my situation. It also made me realize that I was correct about the seriousness of my husband's problem. Suddenly it was like a lightbulb turning on. I need to get to a f2f, but I am still too busy with finals. I will also order some of the Alanon literature.
Thanks everyone for keeping in touch and offering support. It is greatly appreciated.
Girl, I know what you mean about feeling like the alcohol is your husband's mistress, I feel the same way. I can't understand how he cannot see it, and see the pain I had due to his drinking. Why in the world did he think I was crying all the time for? Hmmmmm
It is the nature of the disease, I am told, that they do not/will not/ cannot see it. The disease will stop at nothing to destroy everything it touches. It has no conscience.
The only way I have been able to survive this, is to take care of myself, and I am slowly learning how. Yes, it still hurts that my husband is controlled by this demon disease, and I hate it. But, I love the man behind the disease. And, for today, I am not giving up hope for his recovery.
I am glad to hear you read the book. It was a real eye-opener for me also.
Alanon is giving the tools to live. I cannot save my husband, but I can save myself. And like Toby Rice Drews says "what is good for you, is good for the alcoholic".
Your husband may not be drinking, but he may not be "sober". There is a term called "dry drunk" which means, I think, that they continue to behave in kind of the same way, but not drinking. I guess it does take a long time for the alcohol to get out the system totally.
Keep coming back...it works if you work it. I am here today to say that is true.
Just keep on coming here. I am fairly new, too, I hit bottom when my beloved A husband moved out for 7 weeks, after we have been fighting for over a year about stuff that happened that cannot be changed. Things that involved his alcoholism attitude, and my reaction to it. He had so much anger, the law was involved, etc. He even went to far as to leave dissolution papers on the kitchen table. I was devastated. I wanted to die. He always told me he hated me, wanted a divorce, I was worthless, etc. I too, could not understand why he couldn't see it with the alcohol! I have since learned that the A is not going to blame the alcohol, not in the beginning, anway. And your A is still very new at sobriety.
(((Sunny)))))